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Anonymous Freak

macrumors 603
Dec 12, 2002
5,563
1,255
Cascadia

Poki

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2012
1,318
903
For 2D do you mean also slideshow/photoshop/imovie/final?

Yeah, I do. The HD4000 might not render the most polygons per second, but it's equipped with one of the most efficient HD video decoder and Intel has done a great job making it effective for working. Just not gaming.
 

Maccotto

macrumors 6502
Oct 6, 2012
301
26
I don ti want gaming and i play x360 or blizzygames (I wish hd4000 can work with Diablo3)
 

rezinous

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2010
41
0
Seems at least on par with the 6630M from what I've read. The real bottleneck will come from the CPU if anything. I was considering the mid-2011 mini, but that's out the window now.
 

Fifemacuser

macrumors member
Mar 16, 2012
55
0
Low or mid?

Guys,

Not really up on processors, but my plan was to buy a mini or my daughter. I was going to go for the mid assuming that it would have discrete graphics as she does game a bit, but since they both have the same graphics I am now caught on which one. Other than games it will be schoolwork that she will be doing. The size of he at disk isn't a concern or me as I keep all our files on a networked drive

My question is will the extra £200 or so worth it or the quad core, or am I as well just going for the dual core? Will I be missing out on much with the quad given the fairly light use?

Grateful for any views. :D
 

propower

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 23, 2010
731
126
Guys,

My question is will the extra £200 or so worth it or the quad core, or am I as well just going for the dual core? Will I be missing out on much with the quad given the fairly light use?

Absolutely -- quad core is a huge gain! Also upgrade t the 2.6 processor.
 

Mr Rogers

macrumors regular
Oct 24, 2003
225
3
Hong Kong
Whilst HD4000 is indeed a big leap when compared to HD3000, the fact remains why put a decent chip in a Mac Mini and cripple its graphics performance by abandoning the discrete GPU option.

As another poster said, if they were running a AMD SoC we'd be fine, they are not and HD4000 cannot hold a candle to either a AMD SoC or discrete GPU option.

In a nutshell, HD5000 found in Haswell is a huge leap forward and Apple could have abandoned discrete graphics with this chip, instead, as usual Apple cut corners to maximise cost and reduce choice for the end user - whilst my 2010 Mac Mini's struggles a bit with true HD content - 1080 - its fine for 720 content.

Whilst I'm happy at getting a 1T HDD, I'm not happy about the dropping of the discrete graphics and as such will hold off replacing my HTPC until we have a Haswell Mac Mini - hopefully this will be by September 2013.
 

the27thvoice

macrumors member
Sep 13, 2012
30
0
Norway
To be honest, I'm coming from a 2008 Macbook, it's lasted me this long and still plays World of Warcraft (on the very lowest settings, mind you...and almost dies if I enter any zone with more than 5 people). I'm rather sure I will think Intel 4000 a HUGE improvement no matter how good it could have been with something real.
 

Poki

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2012
1,318
903
To be honest, I'm coming from a 2008 Macbook, it's lasted me this long and still plays World of Warcraft (on the very lowest settings, mind you...and almost dies if I enter any zone with more than 5 people). I'm rather sure I will think Intel 4000 a HUGE improvement no matter how good it could have been with something real.

If you have a GMA something, it will be a huge leap. If you have a 9400M, it won't be that huge.
 

propower

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jul 23, 2010
731
126
So the answer seems to be...

Only gamers are unhappy.... or sort of disgruntled... or OK with it but not jumping up and down....

Everyone else seems to have no real issue...

Thanks!
 

jibberyjabbery

macrumors newbie
Oct 23, 2012
5
0
Yeah, I just ordered another 2011 Mini with 6630 video rather than the new one with integrated HD4000, completely because I like booting into Windows for games on the big TV sometimes.

All the benchmarks I can find show the HD4000 is 15-25% inferior than the older discrete 6630 for gaming.

If real-world tests in the next month contradict this, I'll return it, but right now it looks like last year's model is a better living room Mac than the new one.
 

venom600

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2003
1,300
1,101
Los Angeles, CA
There is one other thing to consider that hasn't been brought up. Thanks to thunderbolt running external GPUs is now a real option. It ain't cheap, but it is a possibility, especially for those who want to boot into Windows.
 

Quash

macrumors regular
Sep 27, 2007
192
20
Thunderbolt in it's current configuration is way to slow to run any kind of high end GPU over. It will get there in the future but not now.
 

Gman021

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2012
143
0
There is one other thing to consider that hasn't been brought up. Thanks to thunderbolt running external GPUs is now a real option. It ain't cheap, but it is a possibility, especially for those who want to boot into Windows.

Thunderbolt in it's current configuration is way to slow to run any kind of high end GPU over. It will get there in the future but not now.


Would love to hear more about this. Anything you can purchase right now that atleast would be an improvement over the HD4000?
 

cmonroe

macrumors member
Jun 15, 2012
52
7
To be honest I was looking forward to the mid range model with discreet GPU as well but from what I can tell there's no reason for it (except maybe gaming). I don't know what benchmarking tools are up to date but here's a comparison of XBench on the 4 macs I have access to. I ran the Quartz Graphics test, OpenGL Tesst, and UI Test. Numbers below are the combined output. If someone has a better test for me to run I'm more than happy to. Since all but the 2010 mini are notebooks I used the native resolution (e.g. what they were designed for). In the case of the retina MBP you'll see results with integrated and discreet as well as retina and non-retina resolutions.

13in mid 2012 MacBook Air 2.0Ghz dual core i7, 1440x900, Intel HD4000, 512M VRAM: 351.24
13in early 2009 white MB Core 2 Duo, 1280x800, GeForce 9400M, 256M VRAM: 74.26
15in retina MBP 2.7Ghz quad core i7, native retina resolution, GeForce 650M enabled, 1TB VRAM: 181.27
15in retina MBP 2.7Ghz quad core i7, native retina resolution, Intel HD4000 enabled, 512MB VRAM: 215.80
15in retina MBP 2.7Ghz quad core i7, native (non-retina) 1440x900, GeForce 650M enabled, 1TB VRAM: 371.35
15in retina MBP 2.7Ghz quad core i7, native (non-retina) 1440x900, Intel HD4000 enabled, 512MB VRAM: 315.08
2010 MacMini 2.5Ghz dual core i5, 1280x1024, Radeon HD 6630M, 256MB VRAM: 312.38

Out of all of these machines the MBA with intel HD4000 is the winner. One odd result to me is that the Intel HD4000 actually shows better performance on the retina MBP over the GeForce at retina resolutions. Maybe that's true based on the type of test Xbench is running or maybe a bug in Xbench, who knows. Either way I'd expect low scores on the retina MBP because of all the pixel doubling/scaling/etc. going on.

All tests aside the 13in mid 2012 MB Air with a 2.0Ghz core i7 processor and integrated HD 4000 graphics screams. This is actually my girlfriends machine. It's used roughly 12-14hrs/day for work; 8-10 of those it's hooked up to a generic 1920x1080 DVI monitor as the primary display with the MB air display as secondary. I've never seen it lag in normal day to to day use. This includes Pandora on the air display, a copy of Parallels with Windows 7 always running (including aero) for WordPerferct and other apps, Outlook with a 10+GB mailbox, Chrome with 20-40 tabs, and Apple Mail open for personal mail. All animations in both Parallels and OS X are fluid and there are no delays whatsoever. If I didn't know better I'd think I was on my retina MacBook pro that cost twice as much.

Bottom line, I've always hated integrated graphics, but the HD4000 coupled with Mountain Lion works *very* well. I plan to use my mini as a media server so the core i7 quad (video encoding) and USB 3.0 (storage) were way more important, however I do plan to use the machine on a daily basis with generic 1920x1080 DVI display and don't foresee any issues based on what the air can do with only 2 cores and a 2.0 Ghz processor. I suspect the mid-range mini with 4 cores and a 2.3Ghz processor will perform stellar in any application except maybe intense gaming.

To all the complainers: stop jumping to conclusions so fast and do some research. The mini is a phenomenal machine for the money and if it performs just the same with one less part that means less power consumption and less heat in my office, I'll take that any day. Connectivity wise it maintains Firewire 800 while providing 4 USB 3.0 ports and ThunderBolt; that's huge for a machine starting at $600. The addition of USB 3.0 alone makes the upgrade worth it if you plan to connect any external disks.

----------

If you have a GMA something, it will be a huge leap. If you have a 9400M, it won't be that huge.

See my above response. I thought the same thing but check on the difference between the 9400M in a white MB vs HD4000 in a MBA. It's gigantic.
 

cocacolakid

macrumors 65816
Dec 18, 2010
1,108
20
Chicago
... whilst my 2010 Mac Mini's struggles a bit with true HD content - 1080 - its fine for 720 content.

The difference between the 2010 mini and the 2011 mini is night and day. Two different chipsets, two different CPU's, two different GPU's. The 2011 is a far better Mac than the 2010, and the 2012 is again far better than the 2011.

The 2010's had Core 2 Duo CPU's. They Geekbenched in the 3000's.
The 2011's had i5 and i7 dual core and quad core CPU's, with GB scores in the 5800-9700 range.

The 2012 we don't know yet, but the 15" rMBP has the same two quad core CPU's available and they score 11,000-13,000 on GB.

The i5 and i7's are much more powerful and faster than the Core 2 Duo's, in any Mac or PC.
 

Cisco_Kid

macrumors 6502
Apr 24, 2005
270
111
British Columbia
I picked up an MBP 13 with Intel 4000 graphics; I bumped my ram to 16GB and the video card shows 512MB for use; it's been smooth like butter for the video work I do ( few family DVD's a month ) photos and some light gaming with Civilization 5.

Going to order a Quadcore Mini as soon as possible, I am very impressed with Intel graphics, could not be more happy.
 

philipma1957

macrumors 603
Apr 13, 2010
6,373
259
Howell, New Jersey
Would love to hear more about this. Anything you can purchase right now that atleast would be an improvement over the HD4000?

no the 2011 mid level had issues of its own. the mini has never been a good graphics computer.

and once again apple has chosen to not have a good tv/gamer computer. the best apple for your tv/computer setup in terms of performance is a 2010 mac pro with a gtx 670 gpu.

so go out and drop 3k to have good not great games on your tv.

or do what I do build a diy pc for 1k to 1.5 k and get a mac mini with vmware fusion for 6 or 7 hundred and for under 2k have the best of both worlds.
 

venom600

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2003
1,300
1,101
Los Angeles, CA
Would love to hear more about this. Anything you can purchase right now that atleast would be an improvement over the HD4000?

There are options that involve using hacked drivers and running Thunderbolt to PCI express adapters, but this article seems to have the most promise, and it should be out soon.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/thunderbolt-graphics-technology-turns-your-ultrabook-into-a-gaming-rig

Here's an article on Toms Hardware that shows how well an eGPU can perform in an external chassis:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-graphics-thunderbolt,3263-6.html
 
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Gman021

macrumors regular
Aug 21, 2012
143
0
There are options that involve using hacked drivers and running Thunderbolt to PCI express adapters, but this article seems to have the most promise, and it should be out soon.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/thunderbolt-graphics-technology-turns-your-ultrabook-into-a-gaming-rig

Here's an article on Toms Hardware that shows how well an eGPU can perform in an external chassis:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-graphics-thunderbolt,3263-6.html

Very cool. It would be great to see someone come out with a external graphics card so we don't have to complain about the ****** graphics we are stuck with in the mac mini. I'll be watching closely.
 

Mak47

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
751
32
Harrisburg, PA
So... help me understand... I see SO much complaining about this... What is the negative impact to "YOU" of HD4000 graphics. What exactly will be the cost? A little slower screen redraws? A little slower filter application in photoshop? ... Some monitors not work at all? Is it just all about games??


You need to understand that the Internet exists for two reasons; porn and geeks complaining about things. For the things you're describing, the HD4000 will be just fine.

I do all those things and more on my 2011 Mini Server with an HD3000, while running two 1080P monitors and it chugs along just fine.
 
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