Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:33 AM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
VirnetX Files Follow-Up Patent Lawsuit Targeting Apple's Latest Products




Fresh off of a $368 million patent lawsuit victory over Apple regarding virtual private networking (VPN) connectivity used in Apple's FaceTime video calling feature, VirnetX has filed a new lawsuit targeting all of Apple's latest iOS devices and Macs, which were not included in the original lawsuit. The new lawsuit was unearthed by Patently Apple earlier this week, but VirnetX did not announce it until today.
Quote:
The complaint includes allegations of willful patent infringement regarding four patents owned by VirnetX, U.S. Patent Nos. 6,502,135, 7,418,504, 7,921,211 and 7,490,151. In its complaint, VirnetX seeks both damages and injunctive relief. The accused products include the iPhone 5, iPod Touch 5th Generation, iPad 4th Generation, iPad mini, and the latest Macintosh computers. Due to their release dates, these products were not included in the previous lawsuit that concluded with a Jury verdict on November 6, 2012.
Apple is expected to appeal the ruling in the original case, and will of course fight the inclusion of its new products in a similar judgment.

Article Link: VirnetX Files Follow-Up Patent Lawsuit Targeting Apple's Latest Products
MacRumors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:40 AM   #2
ollyb
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
*yawn*
ollyb is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:45 AM   #3
aliensporebomb
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA, Urth
Send a message via AIM to aliensporebomb Send a message via Yahoo to aliensporebomb Send a message via Skype™ to aliensporebomb
Question Gads

Another patent troll lawsuit?
__________________
ASB Music Web is at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/
"This is Aliensporebomb" (a soundtrack with no film) is available at http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/thi...mb/id391880218
aliensporebomb is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:58 AM   #4
Yvan256
macrumors 601
 
Yvan256's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by aliensporebomb View Post
Another patent troll lawsuit?
From what I've read, VirnetX is not a patent troll but they do seem to have patents that should not have been granted in the first place.

Software patents are a real mess, to say the least.
Yvan256 is offline   8 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 08:59 AM   #5
Stella
macrumors 603
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada
VirnetX need to protect their IP, just like Apple would and does.


Regardless of Apple, winning or losing, software patents suckass.
__________________
Hardware / Software: The right tools for the job - be it Apple or otherwise.
Stella is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 09:01 AM   #6
WiiDSmoker
macrumors 65816
 
WiiDSmoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hermitage, TN
Good for them. They invented the technology and won a patent for it. And shoul be able to protect it.



Oh that's right. It's against Apple so it's bad now right?
WiiDSmoker is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 09:22 AM   #7
thedeejay
macrumors 6502a
 
thedeejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Looks like that 1B from Samsung came in handy LOL
__________________
13" MBP Retina 8GB, 256GB SSD, Iris Pro [10.9.4] | iPhone 5s 16GB Silver [7.1.2] | Apple TV 2nd Gen | That is all... FOR NOW!
thedeejay is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 09:52 AM   #8
johncrab
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
The group of SAIC employees that formed this "company" is just looking for a big payout by baiting Apple to buy them out in order to own this technology. It may work and it is a pretty bold move, too.

SAIC has been shedding employees and entire departments this year as money from the No Such Agency's wild spending spree for eavesdropping tech has been dialed back. I am sure these are some of those caught in that downsizing and why not look to capitalize in a big way on this?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiDSmoker View Post
Good for them. They invented the technology and won a patent for it. And shoul be able to protect it.



Oh that's right. It's against Apple so it's bad now right?

Just a fine point. Patents are not "won" as in a competition. They are granted based on the uniqueness of a product or procedure.
johncrab is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 10:25 AM   #9
samcraig
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeejay View Post
Looks like that 1B from Samsung came in handy LOL
How so? Apple hasn't gotten a dime of it yet. And they might not ever get a dime. Too early to tell.

That being said - Apple should be "ok."

And for those criticizing VirnetX for going after Apple (again) - it's no different than Apple going after other companies (i.e. Samsung) with additional lawsuits of new(er) devices
samcraig is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:06 AM   #10
Wild-Bill
macrumors 68020
 
Wild-Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ?
By "following up" their lawsuit and adding EVERY new Apple product that has come out since filing, they are definitely trolling.
According to the lawsuit, FaceTime is the "offending" technology, not the hardware. One judgement on the software is sufficient. By going after all of Apple's new products, they are most certainly trolling.

This is nothing more than a couple of out-of-work SAIC employees hoping to never have to work again.
Wild-Bill is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:29 AM   #11
samcraig
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild-Bill View Post
By "following up" their lawsuit and adding EVERY new Apple product that has come out since filing, they are definitely trolling.
According to the lawsuit, FaceTime is the "offending" technology, not the hardware. One judgement on the software is sufficient. By going after all of Apple's new products, they are most certainly trolling.

This is nothing more than a couple of out-of-work SAIC employees hoping to never have to work again.
So I assume you believe that Apple shouldn't pursue anything with Samsung based on their implementation of Android then since they've already sued once. Is that right?
samcraig is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:31 AM   #12
thedeejay
macrumors 6502a
 
thedeejay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
How so? Apple hasn't gotten a dime of it yet. And they might not ever get a dime. Too early to tell.

That being said - Apple should be "ok."

And for those criticizing VirnetX for going after Apple (again) - it's no different than Apple going after other companies (i.e. Samsung) with additional lawsuits of new(er) devices
Ah, was Samsung not required to pay 1B to Apple? Or is that still on-going? I thought the verdict had been reached.
thedeejay is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 11:38 AM   #13
samcraig
macrumors G5
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeejay View Post
Ah, was Samsung not required to pay 1B to Apple? Or is that still on-going? I thought the verdict had been reached.
It's going through appeals. Not sure what you're asking though. My point was that if Apple can keep going after Samsung's newest models for the same thing and they aren't patent trolls (being called that) then VirnetX shouldn't be called a patent troll.
samcraig is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:17 PM   #14
craznar
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Shakespeare said it best:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

This whole legal system is costing humanity progress and money off the deep end.

Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.
craznar is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 01:43 PM   #15
trunten
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiiDSmoker View Post
Good for them. They invented the technology and won a patent for it. And shoul be able to protect it.



Oh that's right. It's against Apple so it's bad now right?
According to 9to5mac they are a patent holding company. does somebody know whether is any truth in that?
trunten is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 02:02 PM   #16
Wild-Bill
macrumors 68020
 
Wild-Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
So I assume you believe that Apple shouldn't pursue anything with Samsung based on their implementation of Android then since they've already sued once. Is that right?
I believe one lawsuit is sufficient for the software.

Samsung's hardware is another matter. They blatantly copied the iPhone.
Wild-Bill is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 02:17 PM   #17
iRCL
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncrab View Post
The group of SAIC employees that formed this "company" is just looking for a big payout by baiting Apple to buy them out in order to own this technology. It may work and it is a pretty bold move, too.

SAIC has been shedding employees and entire departments this year as money from the No Such Agency's wild spending spree for eavesdropping tech has been dialed back. I am sure these are some of those caught in that downsizing and why not look to capitalize in a big way on this?

----------




Just a fine point. Patents are not "won" as in a competition. They are granted based on the uniqueness of a product or procedure.
I never upvote, but I upvoted you. And I find it sad that nobody else did, but upvoted totally thoughtless posts

This nailed it and was well written and insightful about SAIC's situation as well
iRCL is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 02:23 PM   #18
benspratling
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by craznar View Post
Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.
LOL! because what? nobody ever did any work to design algorithms? It doesn't take years of research? design? analysis? optimization? People don't build their entire careers on it?
benspratling is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 02:46 PM   #19
craznar
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by benspratling View Post
LOL! because what? nobody ever did any work to design algorithms? It doesn't take years of research? design? analysis? optimization? People don't build their entire careers on it?
No - because algorithms are not novel, 40 people could simultaneously solve the same problem the same way and giving 1 of them permission to sue the other 39 is just plain stupid.

It also means that it is impossible for anyone to actually write software without being a multi-millionaire.

I mean - how on earth can I possibly determine if my app is legal or not, if people might have patented some obvious way of doing something ?
craznar is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 04:13 PM   #20
raweden
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by craznar View Post
No - because algorithms are not novel, 40 people could simultaneously solve the same problem the same way and giving 1 of them permission to sue the other 39 is just plain stupid.

It also means that it is impossible for anyone to actually write software without being a multi-millionaire.

I mean - how on earth can I possibly determine if my app is legal or not, if people might have patented some obvious way of doing something ?
True story! You would need to employ a whole staff to determine the risk of patent infringement, or you could hope that your app never reaches any mainstream usage so the patent holders won't notice that you have infringement their patent.
raweden is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 06:18 PM   #21
kd5jos
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Obligatory pointing out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by craznar View Post
Shakespeare said it best:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

This whole legal system is costing humanity progress and money off the deep end.

Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.
Yeah, that was said by some characters that wanted to overthrow a government. They knew that Lawyers understood the legal system, and by offing them first, no one would know if what was being done by the characters was legal.

So you're saying get rid of the whole legal system so we have nothing to use? I guess we could just duel.
__________________
[15" MBP 9,1, 2.6 GHz, 16 GB RAM, 750 GB Momentus XT] [Mac Mini Server, 2.53 GHz, 8 GB RAM, 1 1TB HD, 1 2 TB HD] [AirPort Extreme]
kd5jos is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 9, 2012, 10:38 PM   #22
clibinarius
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild-Bill View Post
By "following up" their lawsuit and adding EVERY new Apple product that has come out since filing, they are definitely trolling.
According to the lawsuit, FaceTime is the "offending" technology, not the hardware. One judgement on the software is sufficient. By going after all of Apple's new products, they are most certainly trolling.

This is nothing more than a couple of out-of-work SAIC employees hoping to never have to work again.
Yeah, it is trolling. Sort of like how one company keeps going after all of Samsung's products, even after a suit done. Which company would do that? Hmm, I dunno.
clibinarius is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 05:11 AM   #23
macs4nw
macrumors 68020
 
macs4nw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: On Safari…..
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedeejay View Post
Looks like that 1B from Samsung came in handy LOL
Not so fast; They haven't received any money yet, and probably won't for quite a while yet, if ever, because it's under appeal. Secondly, that whole judgement against SAMSUNG may be set aside, as there are now questions about the jury foreman's disclosures or rather lack thereof, during the jury selection process. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/09/...v-apple-trial/
macs4nw is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 11:36 AM   #24
JAT
In Time-Out
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mpls, MN
Quote:
Originally Posted by clibinarius View Post
Yeah, it is trolling. Sort of like how one company keeps going after all of Samsung's products, even after a suit done. Which company would do that? Hmm, I dunno.
Patent trolling is generally understood to be a company that owns patents and does nothing with them except collect fees or file lawsuits. Apple is actually making iPhones, so they are not "trolling" when they defend related patents. They may still be annoying with the number of lawsuits, so call it something else.

IDK if VirnetX is trolling or defending IP they actually use.
JAT is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 04:47 PM   #25
MacDav
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by craznar View Post
Shakespeare said it best:

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers"

This whole legal system is costing humanity progress and money off the deep end.

Reserve patents for inventions - not discoveries, shapes, colours or algorithms.
What do you call it when you chain weights on the ankles of 10 lawyers and throw them into the ocean?.....Answer....A good start.
PS... There are some decent hard working Lawyers out there. Sorry, I'm not talking about you.
MacDav is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Apple and Samsung File List of Patent Claims and Accused Products Ahead of Second U.S. Patent Lawsuit MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 41 Feb 6, 2014 04:58 AM
Judge Invalidates Two Samsung Patent Claims Ahead of Second Patent Lawsuit with Apple MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 60 Jan 23, 2014 01:31 PM
Apple to Alter VPN On Demand Behavior in iOS 6.1 and Later Due to VirnetX Lawsuit MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 108 Apr 8, 2013 06:19 PM
Apple Hit with $368 Million Judgment in VPN Patent Lawsuit from VirnetX MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 121 Apr 5, 2013 03:41 PM
DRM Software Development Company Intertrust Files Lawsuit Against Apple for Patent Infringement MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 90 Mar 24, 2013 07:31 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:15 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC