Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:44 AM   #1
isephmusic
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
How is Apple innovative?

People tell me the MacBook Air was the first of its kind when the Sony vio z weighed less in 2008 then a 2010 MBA and more importantly had an i7 quad ssd in raid zero

http://m.tomshardware.com/news/sony-vaio-z-quad-ssd,9468.html

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&identifier=S_Z_SERIES_PAGE


The nexus 10 has more ppi than iPad 4 . Samsung note tablet with s pen is letting people draw really good and accurate pictures for the first time, the nexus 4 is coming out with no contract and 2 gigs of ram. The asus zen book prime has a discreet video card in a 13" form while no MacBook in the 13 in category has .... I'm not seeing where the innovation went to :/
isephmusic is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:51 AM   #2
nuckinfutz
macrumors 603
 
nuckinfutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Middle Earth
Innovation is subjective.
nuckinfutz is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:00 AM   #3
unobtainium
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
The nexus 10 has more ppi than iPad 4 .
Innovative = new. By the time the Nexus 10 was released, retina displays were no longer "new" and having a few more pixels per inch is just an incremental improvement.

Quote:
the nexus 4 is coming out with no contract and 2 gigs of ram.
So now adding an extra gig of RAM is "innovative"? What? Also, contract-free iPhones have been available since the beginning.
__________________
13" Retina MacBook Pro (early 2013); Time Capsule 2TB (2011); iPhone 5 (32GB); Apple TV (3rd gen)
unobtainium is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:34 AM   #4
SlCKB0Y
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium View Post
Innovative = new.
That's an over simplification of the definition of innovation.
SlCKB0Y is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:06 AM   #5
aristobrat
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Quote:
Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
The nexus 10 has more ppi than iPad 4 . Samsung note tablet with s pen is letting people draw really good and accurate pictures for the first time, the nexus 4 is coming out with no contract and 2 gigs of ram. The asus zen book prime has a discreet video card in a 13" form while no MacBook in the 13 in category has .... I'm not seeing where the innovation went to :/
To me, Apple "innovating" is when they come into a market and produce a device that (for most) gives a different user experience and shifts how future products in that market (from all manufacturers) are designed.

That doesn't mean that Apple has to be the first in that market, and that doesn't mean that Apple's products in that market have the best specs.

Apple didn't invent the idea of a MP3 player, but the iPod is pretty much the product that made MP3 players ubiquitous with billions across the planet.

Apple didn't invent the idea of a smartphone, but the iPhone seems to be the product that changed how all smartphones are now designed. Every major pre-iPhone player in the market has since redesigned their OS from scratch.

Same with tablets.

Again (and IMO), "innovating" doesn't necessarily mean being the first, fastest, lightest, or cheapest.
aristobrat is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:25 AM   #6
LIVEFRMNYC
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Apple changed the game numerous of times. That's undeniable whether you like Apple or not. Of course Apple is going to brand itself as innovative even though most of their products are not. IMO, I feel Apple does deserve that branding.
LIVEFRMNYC is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:39 AM   #7
VulchR
macrumors 68000
 
VulchR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Scotland
Apple does not invent very much, but it does innovate. Namely, Apple takes technology that is developed by others and puts them in a package that mere mortals can actually use, and enjoy the experience while they're at it. Apple innovates in industrial design.
__________________
My first was a Mac+. Now I own an iPhone with 3.5x the pixels, a colour display, WiFi, 512x the RAM, >1500x the data storage, and 100x the speed. And it fits in the palm of my hand.
VulchR is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:03 AM   #8
maflynn
Moderator
 
maflynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Boston
Quote:
Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
I'm not seeing where the innovation went to :/
Not every product is a showcase for apple's innovation but lets some examples.

The MacBook Air - they were the first and invented the ultrabook, so far no other manufacturer has come close to its popularity.

The iPhone - game changer.
The iPad - game changer
iPod - game changer
iTunes with the itms - game changer.

These show off apple's innnovation. They may not have invented the technology but thy used it in a way no one else considered and made some huge break throughs.

The mini has some innovative designs with regard to the thinness and weight. I like the specs of the N7, and I'm tempted by ICS but that doesn't mean iOS is bad or the mini is deficient
maflynn is online now   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:15 AM   #9
onthecouchagain
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Rumor has it that Apple will be innovating this year with a 4.8" iPhone.

onthecouchagain is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:36 AM   #10
hyteckit
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
People tell me the MacBook Air was the first of its kind when the Sony vio z weighed less in 2008 then a 2010 MBA and more importantly had an i7 quad ssd in raid zero

The nexus 10 has more ppi than iPad 4 . Samsung note tablet with s pen is letting people draw really good and accurate pictures for the first time, the nexus 4 is coming out with no contract and 2 gigs of ram. The asus zen book prime has a discreet video card in a 13" form while no MacBook in the 13 in category has .... I'm not seeing where the innovation went to :/
You are confusing innovation with specs.



----------



Quote:
Originally Posted by aristobrat View Post
Again (and IMO), "innovating" doesn't necessarily mean being the first, fastest, lightest, or cheapest.
Exactly.

Bigger screen and faster processor on a smartphone isn't "innovation".

What's so innovative about me building a laptop with a 21" screen with the fastest processor intel makes? Nothing innovative about that.


Besides, what's MacBook Air in the iPhone, iPod, and iPad subsection?

Maybe the "Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices" is the Apple bashing subforum.
hyteckit is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:38 AM   #11
Brian Y
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
If you want to see how they were innovative, look at what others do before and after.

Look at music players before and after the first iPod.

Look at thin laptops before and after the original MacBook Air (not the 2010 - that wasn't the first).

Look at mobile phones before and after the iPhone.

Look at tablet computers before and after the iPad.

The majority of Apple's products aren't perfect. But they change industries, and bring new ways of thinking.
Brian Y is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:04 AM   #12
flameproof
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Y View Post
Look at mobile phones before and after the iPhone.

I guess you meant, Look at mobile phones before and after the 2006 LG Prada.


flameproof is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:02 AM   #13
aristobrat
macrumors Demi-God
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Virginia Beach
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameproof View Post
I guess you meant, Look at mobile phones before and after the 2006 LG Prada.


Image
Did you see Gizmodos take on the iPhone/Prada? No denying the physical similarities, but it sounds like the user experiences couldn't have been further apart.

Prada: "But generally speaking, it operates just like a regular phone. No revolutionary usage models here."

iPhone: "The iPhone isn't perfect, but the amount of innovation it has pushes it into another class."

http://m.gizmodo.com/261172/settling...prada-nonsense
aristobrat is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:18 AM   #14
DeathChill
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Rumor has it that Apple will be innovating this year with a 4.8" iPhone.

Image
Don't you get tired of having these arguments with non-existent people? Do you think there's a possibility the people who might think 4.8" is perfect are not the same people who find 3.5" or 4" perfect? Do you believe this forum is made up of ten people who flip-flop to like whatever Apple does or is this forum made up of thousands of people all with differing opinions?
DeathChill is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:22 AM   #15
blackhand1001
macrumors 68030
 
blackhand1001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by unobtainium View Post
Innovative = new. By the time the Nexus 10 was released, retina displays were no longer "new" and having a few more pixels per inch is just an incremental improvement.


So now adding an extra gig of RAM is "innovative"? What? Also, contract-free iPhones have been available since the beginning.
The original motorola droid had a ppi of 265. Apples retina display was just an incremental improvement as well. It just was a big improvement over their old screen which was one of the lowest ppi screens on the market.
__________________
Macbook 2008
HP Dv7t - 2.53 ghz, 9600m GT, WSXGA+, 120gb ssd, 250 gb 7200rpm
Core i7 3770k, 8gb ram, 2x 120gb sdd raid0, 500gb hdd, GTX 460
Moto X Dev Edition (VZW) Nexus 7
blackhand1001 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:32 AM   #16
nickchallis92
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
The Xperia X1 had a display well over 300ppi and that was years ago
nickchallis92 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:38 AM   #17
blackhand1001
macrumors 68030
 
blackhand1001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickchallis92 View Post
The Xperia X1 had a display well over 300ppi and that was years ago
Exactly, retina was nothing new. It was just a fancy buzzword they used because they had to double the number of pixels to increase the resolution on their screen. While the iphone had only 163 ppi the original motorola droid had 265 ppi and the xperia x1 had 311 ppi. Apple was not even close to being the first to use a high resolution display. The motorola droid was probably the most popular smartphone at the time of release. It sold millions on verizon.

Theres many more with high res displays. The htc touch diamand (release in 2008) had 286, so did the touch diamand pro. The htc touch diamond 2 (released 2009) had 292.

The LG LU1400 released in 2008 had 333 ppi. I could go on and on. Retina was not an innovation and certainly one that apple did not invent. Especially since they don't even produce the panels.

Nokia E6 (2009) - 328ppi

Lets stop saying that apple was the first. They weren't
__________________
Macbook 2008
HP Dv7t - 2.53 ghz, 9600m GT, WSXGA+, 120gb ssd, 250 gb 7200rpm
Core i7 3770k, 8gb ram, 2x 120gb sdd raid0, 500gb hdd, GTX 460
Moto X Dev Edition (VZW) Nexus 7

Last edited by blackhand1001; Jan 21, 2013 at 10:46 AM.
blackhand1001 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:38 AM   #18
unobtainium
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameproof View Post
I guess you meant, Look at mobile phones before and after the 2006 LG Prada.


Image
The LG Prada didn't even have multitouch. You actually had to press buttons to scroll up and down and from side to side. I wonder why no one talks about the Prada seven years later?
unobtainium is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:48 AM   #19
daveathall
macrumors 68000
 
daveathall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Yorkshire
Apple's history is filled with innovation, that is undeniable, it is what first attracted me to their products, iPod, iPhone etc, the shame is that the last bit of true innovation (IMHO) was the iPad, I struggle to recall anything since then that would be classed as innovation.

Innovation;

Noun
The action or process of innovating.
A new method, idea, product, etc: "technological innovations".

Last edited by daveathall; Jan 21, 2013 at 11:11 AM.
daveathall is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:56 AM   #20
InuNacho
macrumors 6502a
 
InuNacho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In that one place
Apple does innovate just in a different way, they don't exactly invent anything but they do modify and polish it for the masses. Remember Windows tablets before the iPad or laptops before the TiBooks?

Outside of people on forums like these and techie groups who the heck knew what ppi is before Retina stuff started showing up?
InuNacho is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:01 AM   #21
ReanimationN
macrumors 6502a
 
ReanimationN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Rumor has it that Apple will be innovating this year with a 4.8" iPhone.

Image
Isn't screen size one of the main things that is preventing you from getting another iPhone? Shouldn't you be happy at such news, rather than making your usual snide comments about iOS users?
ReanimationN is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:05 AM   #22
matttye
macrumors 601
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by InuNacho View Post
Apple does innovate just in a different way, they don't exactly invent anything but they do modify and polish it for the masses. Remember Windows tablets before the iPad or laptops before the TiBooks?

Outside of people on forums like these and techie groups who the heck knew what ppi is before Retina stuff started showing up?
Agreed. Even though Apple isn't necessarily the first to do something, it seems like the others all follow suit after they do.

Before Siri: ?
After Siri: Google Voice Search (I know this existed prior to Siri, but it was nothing like Siri before and now it is -- but better, admittedly), S-Voice.

Before retina: ?
After retina: everybody coming out with high PPI screens.

Pretty sure Apple popularised the app store too.

Even UI features like kinetic scrolling, elastic bounce back, etc. I'm not aware of any device that implemented those prior to the iPhone. I think most touchscreen phones mainly used styluses before the iPhone. Correct me if I'm wrong!

The first iPhone was the first smartphone I took any interest in, so I may be ignorant to ones that existed before it!
__________________
iPad 2 16GB Black (WiFi+3G) -- iPhone 5s 64GB Space Grey.
matttye is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:10 AM   #23
blackhand1001
macrumors 68030
 
blackhand1001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Agreed. Even though Apple isn't necessarily the first to do something, it seems like the others all follow suit after they do.

Before Siri: ?
After Siri: Google Voice Search (I know this existed prior to Siri, but it was nothing like Siri before and now it is -- but better, admittedly), S-Voice.

Before retina: ?
After retina: everybody coming out with high PPI screens.

Pretty sure Apple popularised the app store too.

Even UI features like kinetic scrolling, elastic bounce back, etc. I'm not aware of any device that implemented those prior to the iPhone. I think most touchscreen phones mainly used styluses before the iPhone. Correct me if I'm wrong!

The first iPhone was the first smartphone I took any interest in, so I may be ignorant to ones that existed before it!
Googles voice search already did most of the things siri did before release. Also siri was simply just bought by apple. It wasn't made by them and had already been released prior.

See my post a few posts up about how many phones had high res screen prior to the iphone.

Apps were nothing new. The first ios didn't even have an app store.
__________________
Macbook 2008
HP Dv7t - 2.53 ghz, 9600m GT, WSXGA+, 120gb ssd, 250 gb 7200rpm
Core i7 3770k, 8gb ram, 2x 120gb sdd raid0, 500gb hdd, GTX 460
Moto X Dev Edition (VZW) Nexus 7
blackhand1001 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:14 AM   #24
onthecouchagain
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
I'm thrilled about the possibility of a 4.8" iphone. I'm sure many will be.

But just like the ipad mini converters we'll see large-iphone converts too now declaring large screen phones are great. Suddenly it'll be possible to fit into pockets.
onthecouchagain is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:15 AM   #25
matttye
macrumors 601
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lincoln, England
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Googles voice search already did most of the things siri did before release. Also siri was simply just bought by apple. It wasn't made by them and had already been released prior.

See my post a few posts up about how many phones had high res screen prior to the iphone.

Apps were nothing new. The first ios didn't even have an app store.
Maybe they just weren't marketed well enough then, because I didn't hear about them and I read general tech/smartphone sites every day, not just this one I think a lot of people think Apple are first at things because Apple makes sure you hear about their products and technology.

Googles voice search did most of the stuff, but it didn't talk.

Who had an App Store before the iPhone? I think I read that Ubuntu had one, but it didn't seem to be the done thing on phones at the time.
__________________
iPad 2 16GB Black (WiFi+3G) -- iPhone 5s 64GB Space Grey.
matttye is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Apple, Industry and Internet Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC