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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:18 AM   #26
daveathall
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
I'm thrilled about the possibility of a 4.8" iphone. I'm sure many will be.

But just like the ipad mini converters we'll see large-iphone converts too now declaring large screen phones are great. Suddenly it'll be possible to fit into pockets.
And use one handed.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
I'm thrilled about the possibility of a 4.8" iphone. I'm sure many will be.

But just like the ipad mini converters we'll see large-iphone converts too now declaring large screen phones are great. Suddenly it'll be possible to fit into pockets.
Not fussy.

I've got a 4" phone, a 10" tablet and a 22" desktop.

If the phone is too small I'll just one of my other devices.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:30 AM   #28
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Not fussy.

I've got a 4" phone, a 10" tablet and a 22" desktop.

If the phone is too small I'll just one of my other devices.
It's great you have these options.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:31 AM   #29
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It's great you have these options.
I think most people have another device

If not, then I would want a much larger phone.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:32 AM   #30
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Maybe they just weren't marketed well enough then, because I didn't hear about them and I read general tech/smartphone sites every day, not just this one I think a lot of people think Apple are first at things because Apple makes sure you hear about their products and technology.

Googles voice search did most of the stuff, but it didn't talk.

Who had an App Store before the iPhone? I think I read that Ubuntu had one, but it didn't seem to be the done thing on phones at the time.
I think siri is too talkative. It gets in the way sometimes. Voice search has always allowed you to get a task done quicker. And a lot of people used voice search in android before siri.

Also ford sync offered in cars was around much longer and offered the same natural speech recognition siri has. It even used the siri voice before siri. It has the same text to speech voice.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:33 AM   #31
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I think siri is too talkative. It gets in the way sometimes. Voice search has always allowed you to get a task done quicker.
Right but arguably the main use for using voice control is when you can't use your hands, such as when you're driving. Voice feedback is imperative for such uses.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:41 AM   #32
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Innovation is no longer at the top of Apples visible priority list. Diluted by their choice of adding Legal Assaults to their work load, they seem adrift at sea.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:44 AM   #33
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Innovation is no longer at the top of Apples visible priority list. Diluted by their choice of adding Legal Assaults to their work load, they seem adrift at sea.
PassBook would be pretty innovative if anywhere supported it. I've got more cards than I can fit in my wallet!
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:46 AM   #34
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How is Apple innovative?
They have a very innovative & unique marketing methods.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:00 PM   #35
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Right but arguably the main use for using voice control is when you can't use your hands, such as when you're driving. Voice feedback is imperative for such uses.
You didn't need to look at the screen. You could just say call <name here> and it would do it after like a 3 second delay if you didn't click anything. You could also say navigate to and tons of other things.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:02 PM   #36
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You didn't need to look at the screen. You could just say call <name here> and it would do it after like a 3 second delay if you didn't click anything. You could also say navigate to and tons of other things.
There was no voice feedback or sound. How do you know when it's ready to listen for voice input? How do you know when it had finished listening? How do you know it was calling the right person?

It wasn't ideal, let's be honest
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:04 PM   #37
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The nexus 10 has more ppi than iPad 4 . Samsung note tablet with s pen is letting people draw really good and accurate pictures for the first time, the nexus 4 is coming out with no contract and 2 gigs of ram. The asus zen book prime has a discreet video card in a 13" form while no MacBook in the 13 in category has .... I'm not seeing where the innovation went to :/
The Nexus 10 came out AFTER the iPad brought a high-res screen to the tablet market. Apple brought high-res (high ppi) displays to the mainstream market.

Nexus 4 isn't innovative. No LTE.

Let's not forget these crop of smartphones wouldn't exist without Apple and the iPhone. We would still have crappy WinMo phones with slideout keyboards.

The Zenbook came out after the MBA and is a direct ripoff.

If Apple isn't so innovative, find me a tablet pre-iPad 1 that was similar or a phone like the iPhone before the first one came out. Also what other laptops on the market have displays that come close to the rMBP 13 or 15?
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:10 PM   #38
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man, check your facts first!

Quote:
Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
People tell me the MacBook Air was the first of its kind when the Sony vio z weighed less in 2008 then a 2010 MBA and more importantly had an i7 quad ssd in raid zero

http://m.tomshardware.com/news/sony-...-ssd,9468.html
They write:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomshardware.com
Weighing below 3.2 lbs, the all-new Vaio Z Series is crafted from carbon fibre and aluminum for a mix of rigidity and lightness.
They do not say, that the weight is less than 2.9 lb, the weight of the Late-2010 MBA. So you have no proof.

And regarding SSD RAID 0: The next two SSD generations make RAID 0 superfluous (transfer speed >= 1 GByte/s).

And btw, you should discuss such stuff in the appropriate MBA forum!
Quote:
Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
The nexus 10 has more ppi than iPad 4.
Yeah, and my YouKnowWhat is bigger! That is INNOVATION!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
Apple does not invent very much,...
Oh, really!?

http://www.patentlyapple.com/
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:14 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
There was no voice feedback or sound. How do you know when it's ready to listen for voice input? How do you know when it had finished listening? How do you know it was calling the right person?

It wasn't ideal, let's be honest
Yes there was. It made a beep when ready and another beep when finished.

----------

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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
PassBook would be pretty innovative if anywhere supported it. I've got more cards than I can fit in my wallet!
I use google wallet all the time. Most stores take it as it just uses the existing rfid card readers which almost any newer credit card machine has. It also uses the existing credit card database so stores don't have to do anything specific to make it work. If they take mastercard expresspay they automatically take google wallet as well. The problem with passbook is it introduces a new payment method that is not already programmed into the point of sale systems merchants use, which is why it will pretty much never take off. It also has a very awkward transaction process. The person has to scan the phone screen and do something special. With google wallet and soon ISIS all you have to do is put your phone to the reader and the cashier hits credit like normal.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:17 PM   #40
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Nexus 4 isn't innovative. No LTE.
LTE is not available in many countries, and not available in all areas. And previous standards can give you 20-40 MBit/s speeds, which is faster than many non-mobile internet connections. So LTE is not really a requirement for cloud services or other applications.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:19 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Yes there was. It made a beep when ready and another beep when finished.

----------



I use google wallet all the time. Most stores take it as it just uses the existing rfid card readers which almost any newer credit card machine has. It also uses the existing credit card database so stores don't have to do anything specific to make it work. If they take mastercard expresspay they automatically take google wallet as well. The problem with passbook is it introduces a new payment method that is not already programmed into the point of sale systems merchants use, which is why it will pretty much never take off.
The beep was barely audible in a noisy car. I tried using it and it failed miserably; I'm not just posting for the sake of argument the new Google Voice Search is clearly a lot better.

Passbook is not supposed to replace the credit/debit card but store and membership cards.

For example you can put money on your Starbucks card and then use that to pay. Starbucks just scans the barcode like they would on a physical card.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:20 PM   #42
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The beep was barely audible in a noisy car. I tried using it and it failed miserably; I'm not just posting for the sake of argument the new Google Voice Search is clearly a lot better.

Passbook is not supposed to replace the credit/debit card but store and membership cards.

For example you can put money on your Starbucks card and then use that to pay. Starbucks just scans the barcode like they would on a physical card.
Except no one has adopted it because it requires them to change their point of sale systems. Its a huge hassle for the merchant and provides pretty much no benefit to them. Google wallet also supports rewards cards and gift card and again doesn't require the merchant to modify the point of sale system themselves.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:26 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by DeathChill View Post
Do you believe this forum is made up of ten people who flip-flop to like whatever Apple does?
Yes. Why not!?
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:29 PM   #44
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How is Apple innovative?

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Except no one has adopted it because it requires them to change their point of sale systems. Its a huge hassle for the merchant and provides pretty much no benefit to them. Google wallet also supports rewards cards and gift card and again doesn't require the merchant to modify the point of sale system themselves.
Does it? Wasn't aware of that as Google Wallet's not supported here yet.

Google Wallet is clearly better than Passbook.

It's only supported in about five apps in the UK, none of which I use.

I still think passbook is innovative, it just doesn't seem to have taken off much yet. The part where it pops up your cards when you get near stores is very cool. And where it changes boarding times for planes and stuff.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:36 PM   #45
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LTE is not available in many countries, and not available in all areas. And previous standards can give you 20-40 MBit/s speeds, which is faster than many non-mobile internet connections. So LTE is not really a requirement for cloud services or other applications.
Unless you're on a CDMA network (like the majority of Americans), the previous standard speed usually averages under 1 Mbps down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Except no one has adopted it because it requires them to change their point of sale systems. Its a huge hassle for the merchant and provides pretty much no benefit to them. Google wallet also supports rewards cards and gift card and again doesn't require the merchant to modify the point of sale system themselves.
It's not exactly a win either way. Most merchants in my area do not have terminals that accept RFID-enabled cards or devices. I know best buy and wawa do, but that seems to be about it, and there's significant more cost in doing than modifying the POS application to be able to read a barcode.

The thing about Passbook is that from the merchants perspective, it's not just a plastic card replacement. To get a merchants card into you Passbook, you have to have an account with the merchant. That gives the merchant a direct avenue to communicate with you, either via the iOS store app, or you signing up on their website and they emailing you that file that pops directly into your Passbook when you open it.

IMO, a merchant being able to directly address a customer sounds like they get way more out of Passbook then they do you swiping some device that their terminals can't tell is an actual credit/debit/gift card, or just a phone pretending to be one.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:55 PM   #46
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Unless you're on a CDMA network (like the majority of Americans), the previous standard speed usually averages under 1 Mbps down.
3G-based HSDPA is available in over 109 countries and in over 250 networks. 169 networks support >= 3.6 MBit/s downlink speed. And that was in 2009...
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:13 PM   #47
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I'm familiar with HSDPA, I used it all last week while working in Hong Kong.

Still doesn't change the fact that most Americans are on CDMA-based networks. LTE falls back to 3G-based EVDO, which typically gives a <= 1 MBit/s downlink.

If you want to make the point that in your country, the Nexus 4 not having LTE isn't a big deal because all of your wireless carriers offer fast 3G-based HSPDA, go for it. I'm just pointing out that's NOT the case here in the US, so the Nexus 4 not officially supporting LTE makes it a smartphone that many will not consider.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:30 PM   #48
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Agreed. Even though Apple isn't necessarily the first to do something, it seems like the others all follow suit after they do.

Before Siri: ?
After Siri: Google Voice Search (I know this existed prior to Siri, but it was nothing like Siri before and now it is -- but better, admittedly), S-Voice.

Before retina: ?
After retina: everybody coming out with high PPI screens.

Pretty sure Apple popularised the app store too.

Even UI features like kinetic scrolling, elastic bounce back, etc. I'm not aware of any device that implemented those prior to the iPhone. I think most touchscreen phones mainly used styluses before the iPhone. Correct me if I'm wrong!

The first iPhone was the first smartphone I took any interest in, so I may be ignorant to ones that existed before it!
I agree on Siri but only under the fact that it can understand language better as Google Search/Voice Commands still rely on keywords mostly.

As for "Retina" as stated in posts earlier a few early Android devices rocked high resolution screens with high PPI.

Apple popularized a centralized native application store. Palm, WinMobile and Blackberry all had 3rd party application stores that were web based for a long time.

I will agree that Kinetic scrolling and bounceback although not every Skinner and Mobile OS makes use of bounceback. I do not consider it a standard essential feature of a touch based os. Kinetic scrolling is just an adaptation of click to drag movement to a touchscreen, Apple can be credited for being the first to do that adaption however. As for the stylus comment, everyone used a resistive digitizer at the time which was considered to be far more accurate than existing capacitive technology. Due to the implementation of the tech, a stylus was the best method of input as using your finger was often hit or miss and required a very hard press. I believe capacitive touchscreen tech was maturing enough around the time of the iPhone's debut.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:40 PM   #49
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I agree on Siri but only under the fact that it can understand language better as Google Search/Voice Commands still rely on keywords mostly.

As for "Retina" as stated in posts earlier a few early Android devices rocked high resolution screens with high PPI.

Apple popularized a centralized native application store. Palm, WinMobile and Blackberry all had 3rd party application stores that were web based for a long time.

I will agree that Kinetic scrolling and bounceback although not every Skinner and Mobile OS makes use of bounceback. I do not consider it a standard essential feature of a touch based os. Kinetic scrolling is just an adaptation of click to drag movement to a touchscreen, Apple can be credited for being the first to do that adaption however. As for the stylus comment, everyone used a resistive digitizer at the time which was considered to be far more accurate than existing capacitive technology. Due to the implementation of the tech, a stylus was the best method of input as using your finger was often hit or miss and required a very hard press. I believe capacitive touchscreen tech was maturing enough around the time of the iPhone's debut.
Yeah. GVS integrates with the knowledge graph and it's very fast, so each have their advantages. A lot of anti-android people said that GVS was only fast when Google showed it because hardly anyone was using it, so I'm really pleased it kept the speed.

Those Android devices that had higher ppi screens must not have marketed them very well. You can't fault Apple for their ability to see an opportunity and run with it.

Kinetic scrolling and bounce back were just examples. There's also pinch to zoom and other multi-touch gestures. Like scrolling inside frames on a web page using two fingers.

Some of the iPad gestures are pretty cool too, like a five finger pinch to close the app.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 02:00 PM   #50
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LTE is not available in many countries, and not available in all areas. And previous standards can give you 20-40 MBit/s speeds, which is faster than many non-mobile internet connections. So LTE is not really a requirement for cloud services or other applications.
They don't have NFC available anywhere here. Therefore NFC is not very innovative and not a requirement...

How is Apple innovative? Well the fan design in their Macbook was creatively engineered. The wiring scheme and component distribution in their iPhone 5 is also something that is innovative.

I'm convinced people are just anxious to play with something new, and they call it innovative.

Apple introduces a change (lightning connector) and people complain. Apple doesn't make a change and people complain.
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