Future of Console Gaming -- DRM?

blesscheese · Feb 7, 2013

Saw this story yesterday, and found this article to be the best summary:

Guardian article

They mention developers for the new XBox and Playstation 4 mentioning quite restrictive new DRM measures specifically for the new XBox. It is still premature...but it seems worth finding out more about before spending the $$$ on one.

overanalyzer · Feb 7, 2013

It makes sense that the model would head that direction, but it's a bit unfortunate. I've enjoyed breaking out old NES/SNES/etc. games from when I was a kid every now and then. There's something to be said for self-contained games that don't require a validation server to be online 20 years later.

sikkinixx · Feb 7, 2013

Pirates are jerks, ruin things for everyone.

rezenclowd3 · Feb 8, 2013

sikkinixx said:
Pirates are jerks, ruin things for everyone.

So people claim....

IMO if there won't be a used game market I am not interested. With PC I do not mind as I tend to buy games at used game prices.

MRU · Feb 8, 2013

It's not pirates... That's subterfuge , the real motive is to kill the used America industry.

Only 50% of the revenue collected on video games gets some percentage back to the publisher - the other 50% is solely to retailers on the back of used game sales.

Publishers now want a share of that too.

If either PS4 or Xbox 720 have DRM to prevent used game sales - the Wii U will be the last console I will have bought.

Though I still doubt they will introduce this... We ad these rumors last gen too.

-SD- · Feb 8, 2013

Yeah, blaming piracy for this is a smokescreen. It's debatable if a pirated game is a lost sale... would that person have purchased the game legitimately if they couldn't pirate it? But a second-hand sale is definitely a lost sale in the eyes of Sony/MS/publishers.

All software is going to go digital, this is just another step along that path.

:apple:

0098386 · Feb 8, 2013

Yesterday whilst browsing a game shop I had an amazing solution for this second hand/DRM problem. Bear with me here...

Say X buys a physical game in a shop. X takes that game home and plays it. Y would like the game too but he can't afford it, so X will lend Y a copy of the game.

So, that disc is effectively the key. Whilst the disc is in possession of Y, X can't play it. Ta da! How good would that work? There's no extra strain on servers, 1 disc means only 1 person can play it any time.

Like/share if u agree

MRU · Feb 8, 2013

Dagless said:
Yesterday whilst browsing a game shop I had an amazing solution for this second hand/DRM problem. Bear with me here...

Say X buys a physical game in a shop. X takes that game home and plays it. Y would like the game too but he can't afford it, so X will lend Y a copy of the game.

So, that disc is effectively the key. Whilst the disc is in possession of Y, X can't play it. Ta da! How good would that work? There's no extra strain on servers, 1 disc means only 1 person can play it any time.

Like/share if u agree

Jimmi you've come up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exist - because what you describe is how things are now anyway..

For surely if the game is on disc anyway in the case of PS3/Xbox, the owner of the disc can't play it if it's lent to the friend regardless ?

Even if installed to a HDD like the Xbox, the game can't start without the original disc in the machine.

So no matter who has the disc, that is the only person playing the game at that point...

overanalyzer · Feb 8, 2013

Dagless said:
Yesterday whilst browsing a game shop I had an amazing solution for this second hand/DRM problem. Bear with me here...

Say X buys a physical game in a shop. X takes that game home and plays it. Y would like the game too but he can't afford it, so X will lend Y a copy of the game.

So, that disc is effectively the key. Whilst the disc is in possession of Y, X can't play it. Ta da! How good would that work? There's no extra strain on servers, 1 disc means only 1 person can play it any time.

Like/share if u agree

MacRumorUser said:
Jimmi you've come up with a solution to a problem that doesn't exist - because what you describe is how things are now anyway..

For surely if the game is on disc anyway in the case of PS3/Xbox, the owner of the disc can't play it if it's lent to the friend regardless ?

Even if installed to a HDD like the Xbox, the game can't start without the original disc in the machine.

So no matter who has the disc, that is the only person playing the game at that point...

I think he was being sarcastic...

In any event, I agree with the reasoning that it's more to prevent resale of games without the publisher getting money than to stop piracy. Game publishers would much rather discount a game over time to continue getting new sales years later than have existing copies be resold with no profit to them. With entirely digital distribution, that becomes a viable option. It's worked well for the App Store and Steam, as examples. There are lots of sales of games from 5-15 years ago still being sold via download, often at 80-95% off from their original price, but it's still money going to the publisher/license owner, not GameStop etc.

0098386 · Feb 8, 2013

My real solution to everything;

-All games to have digital download versions
-Digital downloads to be priced half what they currently are
-Digital download launch dates to be 24 hours ahead of retail
-No weekly updates. Developers/publishers set their own launch date+time
-Anything part of a game that connects to the internet to be limited to the person who first played the game or pay a small activation fee (necessary evil and already exists, but fee needs to be smaller)
-No "always on" DRM, but offer perks instead; stronger conline onnectivity (like ZombiU)
-Frequent sales (Steam and Sony EU are really good at this)

Because basically you want to get people to buy games on their download service since those games are locked to accounts. You've got to give incentives for that.

I don't believe second hand games will be blocked on the upcoming consoles. The second hand problem isn't that big, or a problem.

wlossw · Feb 8, 2013

You can't resell songs or apps you buy from Apple, and no one is complaining about that...

Maybe new games will be less expensive like they are on the app store vs traditional sales? If a new console game was 30 bucks, would you really care that it was tied to your user-id?

blesscheese · Feb 8, 2013

MacRumorUser said:
It's not pirates... That's subterfuge , the real motive is to kill the used America industry.

Only 50% of the revenue collected on video games gets some percentage back to the publisher - the other 50% is solely to retailers on the back of used game sales.

Publishers now want a share of that too.

I agree it isn't pirates...the big corporations see somebody else making a couple of $$ (like GameStop) and they are thinking they can get that share of the money too. And frankly, with the Apple Store making money hand over fist, they see the model working, and they are salivating.

It is sad that it is a zero-sum game...if they make the money off of this, second-hand dealers will lose big time.

MacRumorUser said:
Though I still doubt they will introduce this... We ad these rumors last gen too.

I think that some of these "leaks" might be the big corporations testing the reaction ahead of time, and if people don't seem too upset about, they may be more likely to move next time.

Sony in the past has had some "innovative" DRM implementations before, and suffered a huge outcry at the time that has made them retreat. But, with their profits down, who is to say that they shouldn't try this (their shareholders probably think they should!).

Regarding my own purchases, I have been weaning myself off of Steam, and buying more and more from GOG. While Steam is relatively painless, I feel like I am giving in to the big corporate interests...which aren't aligned with my interests.

gkarris · Feb 8, 2013

ISP's would love this as they start charging more and more for going over the data cap...

If the download is discounted, ISP fees will bring it back up to the cost of physical copies anyways....

Gotta love large corporations....

0098386 · Feb 8, 2013

wlossw said:
You can't resell songs or apps you buy from Apple, and no one is complaining about that...

The average iPhone game price is free-69p. The average song is 99p. AAA console games are currently £50 on PSN and XBL.

Nobody complains because other sites are so cheap, even Steam games are usually £30, £20 less than console. And there's added value in buying disc games because they can be sold on later for 25% less what you originally paid.

gkarris said:
ISP's would love this as they start charging more and more for going over the data cap...

If the download is discounted, ISP fees will bring it back up to the cost of physical copies anyways....

Gotta love large corporations....

Gotta love America, I haven't been with an ISP with a download cap since 2003 and I'm on a 60mbps connection! Fight the power, etc.

SnowLeopard2008 · Feb 8, 2013

I really like Apple's App Store model. Games are pretty cheap, most are a couple of bucks and the most expensive ones are in the tens of dollars. Compared to even Nintendo DS or PS Vita games which start at tens of dollars and go up to around $30.

The major problem with a digital distribution channel for console games is the internet connection. Downloading an iPhone game usually is in the hundreds of MBs, with a few pushing the GB range. But console games? Easily multiple GB for the game itself and then more for DLC. It's not feasible to download 10GB and have a happy gamer. It could take me about 3+ hours to download 10GB and I'm on a university connection that's wicked fast (anywhere between 0-30 MB/s).

So for Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo to put this heavy DRM on us is pretty dumb. If they don't, all the better. If they do, I don't think I could play these games in 10 years like with old school consoles. It's unclear whether they'd still be in business in 10 years or bother the upkeep costs.

APlotdevice · Feb 13, 2013

I pretty much gave up on PC gaming because of DRM. The Wii U will be my final new console as well if they pull this bull.

sikkinixx said:
Pirates are jerks, ruin things for everyone.

GameStop is what has ruined things for everyone. They made buying used games too mainstream.

0098386 · Feb 13, 2013

APlotdevice said:
GameStop is what has ruined things for everyone. They made buying used games too mainstream.

What about elsewhere in the world? What about used-record shops?
People like to sell things they don't want any more. It's an inherent problem with media. You watch it, play it, listen to it and a lot of people only need to experience it once. It's not a problem.

APlotdevice · Feb 13, 2013

Dagless said:
What about elsewhere in the world? What about used-record shops?
People like to sell things they don't want any more. It's an inherent problem with media. You watch it, play it, listen to it and a lot of people only need to experience it once. It's not a problem.

The video game industry is different from other media industries. Movies have theaters and cable to make up a considerable chunk of their profits. Music similarly has concerts and radio. Games only make a profit from the direct sale to consumers. So first sales are much more critical to this industry.

0098386 · Feb 14, 2013

APlotdevice said:
The video game industry is different from other media industries. Movies have theaters and cable to make up a considerable chunk of their profits. Music similarly has concerts and radio. Games only make a profit from the direct sale to consumers. So first sales are much more critical to this industry.

They're not any more. With the existence of account-tied DLC, financial incentives from the manufacturers themselves, huge spikes from sales etc.

Starfighter · Feb 14, 2013

That's how they get you. "Buy this game, it's only £35!" and when you come home you realize you need to buy DLC content to make the experience worthy the price, meanwhile those who paid extra for the special edition gets the upper hand in online gaming and for you to have a fighting chance you have to buy even more DLC.

And one day the servers will be down and the DLC will become useless and when you try to sell the game you discover it can't be played on other consoles.

mslide · Feb 14, 2013

APlotdevice said:
I pretty much gave up on PC gaming because of DRM. The Wii U will be my final new console as well if they pull this bull.

This statement sort of makes me laugh. Compare a DRM'd PC game, purchased from Steam during a sale, against the console version, purchased used from gamestop. I'd bet that every time the PC game will be a lot cheaper, especially if purchased during a Steam Winter/Summer sale. For example, you can frequently get games that are only 1 year old for 50% off. Willing to wait 2 years? You'll probably get 75% off.

PC games can be had for so much less than (used) console games. The key is to just stay 1 - 2 years behind.

Xiroteus · Feb 14, 2013

The cheap and used market is the only way I game, I can put up with DRM when games are five to ten dollars. I believe most games should be able to be played OFFLINE! Not every game is based on multi-player.

Unless I am insanely wealthy I will never be comfortable spending much on games, really bad move.

Antares · Feb 15, 2013

wlossw said:
You can't resell songs or apps you buy from Apple, and no one is complaining about that...

But you can resell CD's. I have no problem with not being able to resell a digital download. However, if I have a physical copy, I should be able to resell it.

Xiroteus · Feb 16, 2013

wlossw said:
You can't resell songs or apps you buy from Apple, and no one is complaining about that...

Maybe new games will be less expensive like they are on the app store vs traditional sales? If a new console game was 30 bucks, would you really care that it was tied to your user-id?

Cost is the reason, I do not care about buying a dollar song or ten dollar steam game because it is cheap, even though I will never pay more then twenty dollar for a game, once you hit that mark or above one wants to be able to sell, trade, give away. I also like to be able to buy used, I prefer to save money and am kind of cheap with entertainment, need to get the most for my money, five to ten dollar games or less, five dollar blu-rays etc...

gkarris · Feb 18, 2013

Xiroteus said:
.... I also like to be able to buy used, I prefer to save money and am kind of cheap with entertainment, need to get the most for my money, five to ten dollar games or less, five dollar blu-rays etc...

Same here...

Publishers and studios hate us - they want to go to a Pay-Per-View/Play model... Those $5 BR's will turn into $2 per viewing...

Future of Console Gaming -- DRM?

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