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Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:09 AM   #1
GKDAIR
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Has Apple lost it's magic? Is Amazon the new Apple?

The Android Market share is around 56% while the ios market share is around 39%

The Kindle fire is the most popular android platform. It accounts for 33% of android tablets. 59% of all the android market comes from the US, and the Kindle Fire HD accounts for over half of it.


HOWEVER, internet traffic was almost universally done by ios devices, with around 80%+ of the traffic, and the Kindle Fire HD in 2nd place, with around 10%+

All things indicate Android to take over from Apple in Q3 of 2013.



I got to admit, I have already moved on from an ipad and an iphone. I have a Kindle Fire HD and I love it, to be quite honest I like it more than my ipad. My phone is a windows phone that I plan on upgrading for a galaxy.


What are the opinions of fellow board members on this subject? How would you feel about an android dominated market space? Has any android device seemed tempting to you?

Please do not think I am trying to badmouth apple. Personally I don't care what people buy, if it does what you need it to do that's fine with me.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:27 AM   #2
asleep
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Apple lost Steve Jobs.

Same difference.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:33 AM   #3
GKDAIR
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Apple lost Steve Jobs.

Same difference.
Yeah, Apple hasn't really been the same since he died. However I heard he had plans for devices for at least 5 years after his death.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:37 AM   #4
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There are beautiful Android devices, and on a hardware level, they have impressive specs. Personally, I've been tempted to go over there, but I have hundreds of dollars tied up in Apple accessories and apps, I love using iMessage from my iPad and picking up the conversation on my mac, or iPhone 5, using Airplay mirroring, and FaceTime works so much better than Skype.

Android devices are very powerful and sexy. But the variability of interfaces, HTC Sense, Samsung Touchwiz, Stock Android, Cyanogenmod, AOKP, etc. etc. just makes it confusing as to which one is the best, in my opinion. And the constant micro-updates to the ROMs make it difficult to update all the time.

Then you have the severe OS fragmentation, so not all apps work on all devices. iOS has this to, but to a much lesser extent. I just never could find everything I wanted with Android. It did a lot of what I wanted, but I missed the Apple ecosystem with games syncing between iPhone and iPad and all of that.

I think I'm too entrenched in the Apple ecosystem to switch. That said, when the Note 3 comes out, I may have to consider it. iMessage is important to me personally though. It's complicated to switch after so many years for me.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:42 AM   #5
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It depends... I have both an iPad and a Galaxy Note 10.1. Both are great tablets. But each excel in different areas.

For instance, I love the digitizer on the Note. I don't care what Steve said about styli or whatever... it's great. No stylus on the iPad can come close (believe me, I tried). There's so much potential there too (imagine being able to use your tablet as a wireless graphics tablet for art/design work).

At the same time, when it comes to music creation applications, iPad is the overwhelming winner. I wanted to use the Note to control my MIDI keyboard for live use... didn't work so well. iPad did... plus it had tons more cool products from Akai, Novation, Korg, etc both in terms of software and hardware.

Even in terms of phones, I use a S4... but I wouldn't mind an iPhone 5. I think more developers write apps for Apple, partially because of Android's fragmentation issues (I was reading up on FitBit's app and bracelet and they were saying they're working on getting it to work with more Android phones but currently they have to tweak the design for EACH phone model they decide to support). They also said that Google seems to be addressing that problem and standardizing things for its next OS so it may be less of an issue in the future.

At the same time, Android phones have cool apps in their own right (like Swype and Titanium Backup and AirDroid). And I love the fact that you have 15 minutes to get a refund on an app if you decide it doesn't do what you want. I can't tell you how much money I wasted on the App Store trying to find a PowerPoint app that was to my liking (even after reading reviews and researching). So it's a give and take.

I think we're at a point where both systems (Apple and Google) has matured enough where you can have great experiences with either platforms. I know there are die hard fans of both sides that love to put down the other side... but it's a little silly IMO. They're both good... just find the one that works the best for you
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 01:17 AM   #6
raccoonboy
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
Yeah, Apple hasn't really been the same since he died. However I heard he had plans for devices for at least 5 years after his death.
Nar, how do we really now he actually did plans devices for another 5 years. His condition was not very good for like a year before he pass. He didn't even go on stage for the 4s, as i remembered.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 01:19 AM   #7
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Having delt with both Apple and Amazon tech support, I can promise you that Apple still has the advantage.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 04:11 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
Yeah, Apple hasn't really been the same since he died. However I heard he had plans for devices for at least 5 years after his death.
Yes, but plans is not the same as him being able to say "this works, this doesn't".
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 06:17 AM   #9
iCole
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It's not because Steve managed to get Apple back on top, that he was right about everything. He was a great CEO but there are still a lot of other capable people in world (and at Apple). They will do just fine. iOS7, featurewise (with lots of androidesque tweaks), the MBA, the new Mac Pro, ... are good examples of that.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 07:27 AM   #10
R1PPER
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I like apple. I like Technology. There is a place in my heart for all tech brands. I use apple now cause I've bought into he Ecosystem. It's like PS4 & XBONE. Love them both cause they grow the industry. Good luck with your android stuff and we will probably see you again in afew years.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 08:32 AM   #11
Skika
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Amazon is the new Apple
Thanks OP, i needed the laugh.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:00 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
The Android Market share is around 56% while the ios market share is around 39%
Android's market share is that high because it includes cheap little phones and tablets that can't even connect to the Play Store.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:13 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post

All things indicate Android to take over from Apple in Q3 of 2013.
Then there is this report saying iOS will be king by 2015.

Has Apple "lost" its magic? No. iOS is still growing in both user base and registered developers. So "lost" is not an accurate description at all.

There will always be competition. The question is if Apple has lost it's magic, what will the competitors copy to keep their own growth up?

If Apple is said to not be innovating now (and we don't know its roadmap) what have its competitors done lately other than make low budget tablets?

Already this week we find out what a true POS the Nexus 7 is:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013...n_3464217.html

You get what you pay for. Building a low quality tablet for the least common denominator isn't innovation it's bottom dwelling.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:16 AM   #14
Brittany246
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I tried Android, and I hated it. iOS devices are better for me. I use an ass ton of apps, and many of the apps I use aren't even on Android. The Play store is nothing compared to the Apple app store. Sometimes your brand new Android devices aren't compatible with some apps... I also don't like the fact that the Play store has malware and data mining apps... I feel like my info is safer on my iPhone compared to my Nexus 7.

I also like how iOS devices are smoother compared to Android devices. People will always tell me that Jellybean fixed all of the lag...BS. My N7 lags. My brother got the S4 for six days and sent it back because of the lag. I really wanted to like the Nexus 7, but eventually the lag eventually started to piss me off. I don't want to have to jump through hoops to get my device to stop lagging.

Apple customer services is also better, imo. I can walk into an Apple store and get it exchanged or fixed no matter where I bought the device. I had to get 2 nexus 7s before the 3rd one didn't have major issues (it's still not perfect). I bought it at gamestop, and I would have had to deal with Asus RMA BS and be without a device for weeks.

I'm not getting another Android device until the Play store is better and the lag is fixed. Apple may be going down hill, but I think it's still better than the alternatives.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:32 AM   #15
poloponies
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Apple created the market. It was inevitable that as competition entered the market Apple's market share would erode. However, it's an expanding market so Apple's unit sales are still increasing year-over-year, which is what matters.

Remember, you're looking at Android as being one thing when in fact is a an aggregate of a large number of hardware vendors. Apple still dominates sales but it's pretty much a given that when they compete against tablets that are priced 50% less then others will post robust sales figures.

On a head-to-head basis, Apple is still more than 50% ahead of Amazon, which is pretty impressive considering the price differences.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:36 AM   #16
madeirabhoy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
The Android Market share is around 56% while the ios market share is around 39%

The Kindle fire is the most popular android platform. It accounts for 33% of android tablets. 59% of all the android market comes from the US, and the Kindle Fire HD accounts for over half of it.


HOWEVER, internet traffic was almost universally done by ios devices, with around 80%+ of the traffic, and the Kindle Fire HD in 2nd place, with around 10%+

All things indicate Android to take over from Apple in Q3 of 2013.



I got to admit, I have already moved on from an ipad and an iphone. I have a Kindle Fire HD and I love it, to be quite honest I like it more than my ipad. My phone is a windows phone that I plan on upgrading for a galaxy.


What are the opinions of fellow board members on this subject? How would you feel about an android dominated market space? Has any android device seemed tempting to you?

Please do not think I am trying to badmouth apple. Personally I don't care what people buy, if it does what you need it to do that's fine with me.


is this worldwide or in us?


coz the kindle fire is a dog in a lot of europe.


one of my colleagues bought one for her daughter, because she wanted something up from cheap chinese android but didnt want to go to ipad/galaxy prices.

her daughter's friends all have cheap moboo or something tablets. sd cards full of movies, loads of free games from play store.


however, with this better quality product, its an over priced book reader.

the amazon store isnt available in portugal (or a lot of europe) so she cant download any apps from it, yet she cant use the play store because amazon dont allow. so with a few hoops jumped she can use the opera site and some other site, both of which have hardly any decent apps and have lots of dodgy knockoffs and fake apps.


she regrets buying it, a cheap android would have been far better, or a bit more cash for an ipad mini would have been 100% better.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 09:37 AM   #17
MonkeySee....
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Market share isn't their focus. Get over it.

internet traffic was almost universally done by ios devices, with around 80%+ of the traffic, and the Kindle Fire HD in 2nd place, with around 10%+

That is all that matters
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Last edited by MonkeySee....; Jun 19, 2013 at 09:42 AM.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 10:58 AM   #18
takeshi74
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
if it does what you need it to do that's fine with me.
^ This. "Magic" and market share are irrelevant. It's all about selecting what works for you.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 01:48 PM   #19
GKDAIR
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So nice to see people throwing hissy fits and calling me names, oh and also people taking what I say out of context. People tend to get defensive when they have no counter point.


The Nexus 7 is horrible, I think it has like a 2% overall market share and for android tablets it has about 8% I don't know a soul who owns one, and I haven't heard anything about them since they came out.


The only real competition to the Ipad is the Kindle Fire HD, as I believe it's in 2nd place compared to the Ipad, who's pretty much always been in first. The Ipad Mini IMO isn't even worth it considering practically every other tablet around that price range is better and has more options. Even the Nexus 7 blows away the Ipad mini in terms of "you get what you pay for" The screen on the mini is horrible, good grief.


I honestly believe Apple will still be around and relevant, but they won't be as powerful as they have been in the past. I'm talking in terms of the general average consumer. Most people get and use tablets for media consumption, and the Fire HD is one of the best devices for that, for less than half of the ipad. If an ipad works for you fine, if the Kindle Fire works for you fine, if the Nexus 7 works for you, that's fine as well.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
So nice to see people throwing hissy fits and calling me names, oh and also people taking what I say out of context. People tend to get defensive when they have no counter point.


The Nexus 7 is horrible, I think it has like a 2% overall market share and for android tablets it has about 8% I don't know a soul who owns one, and I haven't heard anything about them since they came out.


The only real competition to the Ipad is the Kindle Fire HD, as I believe it's in 2nd place compared to the Ipad, who's pretty much always been in first. The Ipad Mini IMO isn't even worth it considering practically every other tablet around that price range is better and has more options. Even the Nexus 7 blows away the Ipad mini in terms of "you get what you pay for" The screen on the mini is horrible, good grief.


I honestly believe Apple will still be around and relevant, but they won't be as powerful as they have been in the past. I'm talking in terms of the general average consumer. Most people get and use tablets for media consumption, and the Fire HD is one of the best devices for that, for less than half of the ipad. If an ipad works for you fine, if the Kindle Fire works for you fine, if the Nexus 7 works for you, that's fine as well.
I disagree with you because you are using your subject opinion of one tablet to explain that another will gain dominance in the market.

It's pointless to compare iPads (mini or not) to Android tablets spec for spec because specs play such a smaller role mobile devices.

General consumers tend to not care how fast a CPU is, what generation of GPU is intergrated or how many cores it has, or how much RAM is available. They care about how smooth something scrolls, how fast something loads, how much pleasure they derive from using it, and how little frustration it requires to get it to do what they want.

In those above metrics, the iPad currently beats every other tablet in a very objective way. No other tablet scrolls as smoothly, loads features as fast*. Other more subjective measures such as pleasure and frustration, Apple tends to win on in most surveys. Apple's customer support compares to none; what other tablet company will arrange for someone to sit down with you at a mall and go through with you, at a slow pace, each and every feature that interests you?

This is why the iPad mini, with it's low-spec CPU, low-resolution display, and high price point will continue to dominate the kindle fire. So you're right in that dollar for dollar, one dollar buys you more mhz and more pixels on a Kindle Fire; that alone will not sway enough consumers to topple Apple's lead.

* To clarify what I mean by features loading; I mean, in totality, how snappy the UI is. Even beastly specced Android tablets have some hickups when loading things. For example, when closing a game and going back to the home screen, the background loads, then a half-second later the icons load, then a half-second later the widget update. Even though technically the android tablet might be faster than an ipad, have higher frame-rates for games, etc., this roughness feels like lag. Whereas, on the slowest iPad today, the homescreen and icons and every other UI element loads buttery smoth and fast; even if technically the user sits at the splash screen for an app longer, it feels faster when it all happens smoothly. That smoothness doesn't come from specs, it comes from brilliant software engineers sitting under one roof with the only hardware their software will be running on.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:25 PM   #21
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I have a Kindle Fire and an iPad4. The Kindle Fire is a nice device for the price and I love it for audio books, but the iPad is far superior for everything else. I also have a rMBP and an iPhone5. No, Apple hasn't lost it's magic for me.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:25 PM   #22
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I disagree with you because you are using your subject opinion of one tablet to explain that another will gain dominance in the market.

It's pointless to compare iPads (mini or not) to Android tablets spec for spec because specs play such a smaller role mobile devices.

General consumers tend to not care how fast a CPU is, what generation of GPU is intergrated or how many cores it has, or how much RAM is available. They care about how smooth something scrolls, how fast something loads, how much pleasure they derive from using it, and how little frustration it requires to get it to do what they want.

In those above metrics, the iPad currently beats every other tablet in a very objective way. No other tablet scrolls as smoothly, loads features as fast*. Other more subjective measures such as pleasure and frustration, Apple tends to win on in most surveys. Apple's customer support compares to none; what other tablet company will arrange for someone to sit down with you at a mall and go through with you, at a slow pace, each and every feature that interests you?

This is why the iPad mini, with it's low-spec CPU, low-resolution display, and high price point will continue to dominate the kindle fire. So you're right in that dollar for dollar, one dollar buys you more mhz and more pixels on a Kindle Fire; that alone will not sway enough consumers to topple Apple's lead.

* To clarify what I mean by features loading; I mean, in totality, how snappy the UI is. Even beastly specced Android tablets have some hickups when loading things. For example, when closing a game and going back to the home screen, the background loads, then a half-second later the icons load, then a half-second later the widget update. Even though technically the android tablet might be faster than an ipad, have higher frame-rates for games, etc., this roughness feels like lag. Whereas, on the slowest iPad today, the homescreen and icons and every other UI element loads buttery smoth and fast; even if technically the user sits at the splash screen for an app longer, it feels faster when it all happens smoothly. That smoothness doesn't come from specs, it comes from brilliant software engineers sitting under one roof with the only hardware their software will be running on.
I'm really just using one example, I'm not saying just because I like the kindle fire means it's going to dominate the market.

But it is in 2nd place tablet wise, and make no mistake it's a distant second, but it's catching up very quickly.

The ipad has been so successful largely because it had no competition, there's not really much of a market for 500 dollar tablets, even today. Ipads are still pretty much the windows of the tablet world, make no mistake about that.

HOWEVER, while they may be the industry standard, they are quickly losing the consumer standard.

It's kinda like how Windows dominates the PC market, but in every other market they completely blow and suck, and they are even losing on the computer front now.

Right now I see ipads in offices and places of business, but I'm seeing less and less of them in homes. The ipad is a great tool for business, but if you're simply looking to consume media, there are a lot cheaper options out there, and even some that do it better than the ipad.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:41 PM   #23
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Honestly? The next Apple? I think it's Tesla Motors and Elon Musk as the next Steve.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:49 PM   #24
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I'm really just using one example, I'm not saying just because I like the kindle fire means it's going to dominate the market.

But it is in 2nd place tablet wise, and make no mistake it's a distant second, but it's catching up very quickly.

The ipad has been so successful largely because it had no competition, there's not really much of a market for 500 dollar tablets, even today. Ipads are still pretty much the windows of the tablet world, make no mistake about that.

HOWEVER, while they may be the industry standard, they are quickly losing the consumer standard.

It's kinda like how Windows dominates the PC market, but in every other market they completely blow and suck, and they are even losing on the computer front now.

Right now I see ipads in offices and places of business, but I'm seeing less and less of them in homes. The ipad is a great tool for business, but if you're simply looking to consume media, there are a lot cheaper options out there, and even some that do it better than the ipad.
The first two bolded statements above are where I think your subjective opinion is influencing your belief. There's no study that I have seen has the kindle fire been catching up quickly, and ipad loosing consumer standard. From what NPD and others are observing, the ipad is holding steady, and the kindle fire has taken away other android market share.

You're right that there are cheaper ways to consume media. However, the ONLY thing android tablets do better than ipad is consuming media which has been sideloaded. 95%* of the time, this means its pirated movies or tvshows from bittorrent or usenet, and relatively few overall sideload content at all. Most consume media through apps: netflix, hulu, amazon prime, kindle app, ibooks, newstand, youtube, your local cable provider's streaming app, whatever your favote blog's app is, etc. The BIGGEST app of all for consuming media is the web browser. All of the above, except sideloading content, the iPad does better than anyone else.

Finally, I don't think the Windows analogy works. Windows dominated the PC market due to some underhanded dealings with Intel early on, and then without competition they went stale. This isn't the case with iPad; they do have competition, like the kindle fire, who are lighting a proverbial fire under their ass and keeping them on top of their game and giving them a reason to stay the best long-term.

I don't want Kindle Fire to fail, or Android. Without competentent competition, then iPad would become stale and akin to Windows; but that isn't the case yet and I doubt it ever will be.

*I made this number up, but its probably not too far from the truth. :-D
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 02:50 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by GKDAIR View Post
The Nexus 7 is horrible,
The only real competition to the Ipad is the Kindle Fire HD,
The Amazon app store is vastly inferior to Google's Play Store (which is already slightly inferior to Apple's own store). I wouldn't even consider a Kindle Fire HD over a Nexus 7.
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