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Old Jul 5, 2014, 02:56 PM   #1
OldGuyTom
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Yosemite looks terrible!

I got to see Yosemite yesterday on a guy's machine while waiting at the airport. I don't know if it was a developers preview or a bootleg of one of the DP sets. I suppose it doesn't matter.

My conclusion was that some of the new features, once they get them working OK are good, in fact probably an asset.

....but then there are the changes to the user interface. Jonathon Ive said he was going to "pound it down" (the user interface, that is) and he did so...with a sledge hammer.

This is the worst looking version of MacOS I've ever seen in my life. The folder icons are an obnoxious deep turquoise. The Red, yellow, and green window control buttons have no 3D effects and look more like some cheap drawing. Most 3d effects are gone from the title bars of apps. They're all flat and unsophisticated looking. It reminded me of an early version of Linux or maybe something more like Windows 1.0. Many of the icons have been "simplified"...appaarently they were too complicated for us, so now they're being dumbed down with obnoxious, high contrast colors and simpleton diagrams.

THIS IS JUST PLAIN STUPID LOOKING!!!

I've been a loyal fan of Apple for years, but face the facts guys, Steve Jobs is gone and the new head of the company and his "designer" are pretty clueless. The "good 'ol days" of Apple, as in during the '80's are over, and now it's rebirth and re-incarnation of the company by Jobs in the 2000's are over. All the stuff Jobs liked, like the skeuomorphic design of the recently fired Scott Forstall, was what made the early versions of iOS and OS X look great, but Ive apparently got Forstall fired and has been "correcting" first iOS and now OS X.

FYI, CNET did a user rating of Ive's "greatly improved" iOS 7 and it got a 1.5 out 5 stars....all previous versions of iOS (from Jobs/Forstall) had ratings between 4.5 and 5. We obviously won't hear a bad word about Apple from anyone that stands to profit from advertising revenue but I'm afraid user rating tell the real story.

Unless they change Yosemite to appear more like its predecessors, I would give Yosemite a rating of 0.5 out of 5 stars. You really have to see it to get the feel for how butt-ugly and stupid looking it is.

I believe when my current generation of Apple hardware starts going south, the replacements will be non-Apple.

Any ideas for non-Windows alternates? I'm thinking Linux, FreeBSD, etc.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 04:12 PM   #2
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I don't care what the morons at Cnet say, I like the design of iOS 7 and prefer it over previous versions by far. By the way, Cnet takes well-known applications and modifies them to include malware, so I don't think their opinion is worth more than that of a potato. When comparing the iOS 7 to the old look, the old one looks old, just like it should. It's like comparing Windows 95 to OS X.

Anyway, you say that Yosemite looks bad, but, that's just like, your opinion, man. I personally like it and I think Mavericks looks fine too, but it does have some design elements that are really old. These are the glossy Close, Minimise and the ever useless + button, for example, and the blue glossy OK/Cancel buttons, progress bars and anything left from Aqua. They mimic 3D, real life elements and come from a time where making things on computers look like anything more than basic rectangles was a big deal.

Now we no longer think that 3D, realistic UI elements are a "cool" because we're used to them, so they went back and thought about how they could redesign things as a clean slate. This is what they came up with, and in many ways it makes sense, and in other ways it may be a bit too much (maybe the large surfaces of blurry translucency is a bit odd) or too little (the flat white finder buttons are a bit plain and look unfinished) but I still think it's a step in the right direction: minimalism.

I think computers should give us the information we need and not more, since there's enough stuff to pay attention to as it is. Gradients and unnecessary details, shadows, gloss, colors, or 3D-like bevels (buttons that press "in" or "out") are not needed and getting rid of them makes us focus on the things that are needed (the content) faster.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 04:34 PM   #3
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Yosemite looks rather good to me, but I do prefer how most elements looked in Mavericks. I'll always miss the 3D Dock unless I install a mod to bring it back.

But yeah, iOS 7 deserves its 1.5 star rating. Even though Forstall is gone since 2 years, it's funny how Maps hasn't improved at ALL for me. I've reported things 14 months ago and they're not fixed yet. Forstall did an awesome job at Apple if you want my opinion, he created Apple's signature. Skeuomorphism is actually what made Apple so different and unique. Now, iOS, Windows Mobile, Android, Firefox OS, Tizen, Blackberry OS, all flat !

The only app that truly didn't make sense was the cassette in Podcast player on iOS.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 05:19 PM   #4
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Yosemite is gorgeous and a refreshing, modern change. You're in the minority.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 05:48 PM   #5
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I don't think that new interface looks all that good, but don't think it looks bad either. Not nearly as bad as my initial reaction to iOS 7. I still think it is funny that Apple refers to it as "modern". If anything going back to simplistic designs (plain flat icons, lots of white etc.) is retro.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 06:21 PM   #6
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Big improvement over Mavericks - like the direction they have taken and really looking forward to the call / text thing as I'm always leaving my phone around the house
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 06:23 PM   #7
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Yosemite is gorgeous and a refreshing, modern change. You're in the minority.
I can't speak for others, but I agree with this post. I like both iOS8 and Yosemite's new look. In a few years, when it becomes dated, I'll look forward to whatever's considered fresh.

As for the Steve Jobs comments, the man is dead (may he rest in peace). Since he was a man, he wasn't going to live forever. And, we need to accept the fact that Apple is going to be different and dynamic going forward.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 07:00 PM   #8
z06gal
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Yosemite is gorgeous and a refreshing, modern change. You're in the minority.

Agree. I think it is so elegant yet simple. Really love the direction Apple is going with it
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 08:00 PM   #9
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I wondered how long it was going to be before someone posted something like this.

On this and other sites I see more or less mixed reviews, ranging from "I'm moving away from Mac's now!" to "This is the best thing ever."

My own opinion, and that's all anything in this thread will be, opinions, is that it's not an improvement. It reminds me of some of the graphics you used to see on some X-Windows file managers and applications back in the late eighties and early nineties. I don't know quite how to put it into words. Amateurish? Unprofessional? Goofy looking? It just doesn't seem to look slick or professional.

There's no way i'd switch to Windows, but a BSD variant or a Linux variant are worth looking at, and just think how much you'll save on hardware costs.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 08:58 PM   #10
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OSX is themeable. Every time I hear someone whine about something that takes 3 seconds to theme I lose a little faith in the average computer user.
(There are some legit complaints about non-themeable/configurable things but even then 3rd party software can often provide a work around)

OMG new folder icons! good thing you can just stick the old flipping pictures in

/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources

to make them look exactly like they used too...
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 09:34 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by OldGuyTom View Post
I got to see Yosemite yesterday on a guy's machine while waiting at the airport.

This is the worst looking version of MacOS I've ever seen in my life.

THIS IS JUST PLAIN STUPID LOOKING!!!

I believe when my current generation of Apple hardware starts going south, the replacements will be non-Apple.

Any ideas for non-Windows alternates? I'm thinking Linux, FreeBSD, etc.
Your opinion, your (somewhat limited) choice.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 09:53 PM   #12
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and just think how much you'll save on hardware costs.
Not much, really. Unless you mean buying inferior hardware to cut costs, then I suppose you could save a lot.
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Old Jul 5, 2014, 11:05 PM   #13
TheBSDGuy
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OMG new folder icons! good thing you can just stick the old flipping pictures in

/System/Library/CoreServices/CoreTypes.bundle/Contents/Resources
Which is exactly what I did, but how many Mac users know how to do that? Not very many, I would guess.

Apple needs to be concerned about how the operating system presents itself to potential users. If they look at Yosemite and think it looks stupid, childish, or whatever, that's one lost potential customer. If they start alienating their own users, then there are some that will switch to something else.

What would be nice would be if they would allow us to configure GUI effects to suit our own preferences without hacking at the OS or transferring files from a previous version.

Like I said, this is all opinions, but I can't see this thing impressing too many people.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 02:58 AM   #14
.X.
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They really made Yosemite fugly. Not as bad as I had feared, but it's obviously a huge step backwards from Mavericks.

It looks unprofessional and simplistic, like something a person without artistic skills would come up with.

Anyone can make single-colored circles and squares without depth. In the 80's UIs looked like this because of hardware limitations.

But yeah, it looks better than iOS7 on the iPad (then again, everything does).
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:08 AM   #15
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Yosemite is some of Apple's best UI work in years. It's what Windows should have been and what iOS7 tried to be.

It's simple, yet detailed changes that completely refresh the UI and experience without taking away any of the simplicity of familiarity that's made Mac increasingly popular over the last few 10 years.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 04:13 AM   #16
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They really made Yosemite fugly. Not as bad as I had feared, but it's obviously a huge step backwards from Mavericks.

It looks unprofessional and simplistic, like something a person without artistic skills would come up with.

Anyone can make single-colored circles and squares without depth. In the 80's UIs looked like this because of hardware limitations.

But yeah, it looks better than iOS7 on the iPad (then again, everything does).
I'm sorry I'm calling BS. As a UI designer it's my job to make software visually pleasing and useable. Most of everything I've seen in Yosemite so far is a huge improvement compared to Mavericks and miles ahead of the desktop UI in Windows 8.1. I understand 2013 is over so forgive me for even muttering this word but skeuomorphism in UI, the polar opposite of minimal design, is not the inevitable future of UI. Removing the gradients and 3D effects from the "X - +" buttons isn't a step back; it's a stylistic change. I want you to go back to the 80's and give me UI elements that looked like Yosemite's window controls because you don't know what you're talking about.

You're not allowed to go into an art museum and say your 3 year old daughter could have made a better Pollock painting. I'm not gonna stand here and let you say that Apple's hundreds of engineers are idiots. Sorry dude.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:23 AM   #17
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Now we no longer think that 3D, realistic UI elements are a "cool" because we're used to them, so they went back and thought about how they could redesign things as a clean slate. This is what they came up with, and in many ways it makes sense, and in other ways it may be a bit too much (maybe the large surfaces of blurry translucency is a bit odd) or too little (the flat white finder buttons are a bit plain and look unfinished) but I still think it's a step in the right direction: minimalism.
And in 7-10 years we will have back 3D elements in UI design with the slogan "Only Apple can do this". Look at this beautiful crafted effects, the shadows the nice glossy effects.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 05:47 AM   #18
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I disagree, but not completely. When I first saw the new UI, I didn't like it very much at all, it felt like too much of a change: reverting back to the Tiger style dock, the iOS-style colourful, cartoony icons, and the "Aero"-reminiscent transparency that has been jammed in just for good measure.

But I still had to admit that it's better than any other default OS UI, and I'd sooner use "iOS X" over Windows 8.1 or having to constantly fix and fiddle with Linux/*NIX distributions.

I also had to admit that it was a necessary change. It's not like Apple, the self-proclaimed innovator of innovation, could keep the same UI that it had been using for over 7 years.

So they've given us that long awaited change. Minimal it may be in terms of UI upgrades, but they've finally given us something that resembles a new UI for all those who have been anticipating it since the first rumours of "Marble". They've changed the system font, changed the dock—back—to a more classic Apple design and arguably a more attractive dock, and they've added some bells and whistles that have been done better than any competing UI.

Although the new UI isn't a complete replacement for Aqua, it shows that Apple have got the shotgun loaded and are just about ready to take Ol' Aqua round the back.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 06:11 AM   #19
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While I agree that the icon and widget colours are far too saturated, overall I really like the OS.

If I have to, I'll install a graphite icon set, as I think it would look a lot better than the bright blue icons, but I'll wait for the final version to see if Apple changes it first, or gives us some kind of options. At the very least I hope graphite is still an option for the close/minimise/maximise widgets, as I've never liked the traffic lights version (too distracting).
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 08:34 AM   #20
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Yosemite looks so clean and gorgeous that since WWDC mavericks instantly looks like its years old (which it is).
I really don't understand the people that think ios 6 looks better than ios 7 (yes you could argue about some icons). The UI is miles better and so is yosemite. I'm so glad apple is doing these changes so that we are not stuck with a skeumorisphm os for another 10 years to keep the close minded people happy. It's the same people that probably still have an iPhone 4 and complain about speed or have a mac book pro from the stone ages and complain that continuty will not work on their ancient devices.
Glad there is a thing called progress in tech and design and that always means that some dinosaurs will be left behind and I'm glad for that.
Bring on Yosemite....
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 08:42 AM   #21
PsykX
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Originally Posted by crashoverride77 View Post
Glad there is a thing called progress in tech and design
Flat interfaces is nothing but regression.

It has existed since the very first GUI. Think about the mainstreams : Windows 3.1 and Mac OS 1. They were definitely flat. Skeuomorphism never existed in that time, because we didn't have the tech to make it.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 09:07 AM   #22
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Yosemite looks so clean and gorgeous that since WWDC mavericks instantly looks like its years old (which it is).
I really don't understand the people that think ios 6 looks better than ios 7 (yes you could argue about some icons). The UI is miles better and so is yosemite. I'm so glad apple is doing these changes so that we are not stuck with a skeumorisphm os for another 10 years to keep the close minded people happy. It's the same people that probably still have an iPhone 4 and complain about speed or have a mac book pro from the stone ages and complain that continuty will not work on their ancient devices.
Glad there is a thing called progress in tech and design and that always means that some dinosaurs will be left behind and I'm glad for that.
Bring on Yosemite....
3 years aren't "stone ages". Not in the Apple world.
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 09:16 AM   #23
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Flat interfaces is nothing but regression.

It has existed since the very first GUI. Think about the mainstreams : Windows 3.1 and Mac OS 1. They were definitely flat. Skeuomorphism never existed in that time, because we didn't have the tech to make it.
I'm not saying it's a brand new invention. But clearly current trends in tech go towards flat and clean designs and I'm glad apple is following it.
Skeumorisphm was fresh when iPhone was realised what like 8 years ago but it's not fresh anymore.
Therefore flat interfaces is nothing but progress in the current tech world and not regression.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanJacinto View Post
3 years aren't "stone ages". Not in the Apple world.
We'll it is almost 4 years now and in the tech world that is older than stone ages and apparently so it is in apples world.
apple is still supporting it and that is great (compared to other manufactures) but should they slow done progress and don't and new features because people use these old devices? Clearly not....
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 10:48 AM   #24
haravikk
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Flat interfaces is nothing but regression.

It has existed since the very first GUI. Think about the mainstreams : Windows 3.1 and Mac OS 1. They were definitely flat. Skeuomorphism never existed in that time, because we didn't have the tech to make it.
I think it's arguable whether those are the same thing at all; those were OSes working with limited colour palettes (or none at all) so they're not really comparable, especially since the modern flat OS incorporates a lot more, such as use of whitespace, smooth fonts etc.

The anomaly really was the obsession with adding colour and fancy effects to everything in an OS which occurred thereafter, and which we're only now getting away from again (thankfully). In this respect, OS X.0 was a horrible OS with overly transparent menus and pinstripes everywhere.

I'm very glad we're finally going towards simplifying things and focusing on content rather than decoration; sure there are still some fancy visual effects, but nothing too distracting (other than the colour saturation, bleh!).
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Old Jul 6, 2014, 11:27 AM   #25
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While the OP does have some points, I think he completely devaluates his opinion by mentioning Steve Jobs and making assumptions about Apple in general. Stop doing that.

I’ve been pretty biased about iOS 7 as I still don’t like its design. That is mostly because I adored iOS 6. I liked almost every single part of it, the blue/grey menu bars, the pin-striped backgrounds, even the glossy finish. Buttons and toggles that looked so pretty that I wanted to touch them. That’s just gone in iOS 7. Instead, everything is white or blurry and reduced to text; ‘clean’, but clinical. While iOS 7 has improved the flow a lot with its new physics-based motions and gestures, the visual style remains unappealing to me.

Admittedly, I was very nervous about Yosemite, but I’m pretty neutral at this point. The screenshots and video footage don’t look too bad and I definitely think that I should install it first to see whether I like it (and retain the option to go back, as it should be!). Unlike iOS, OS X does seem to look slightly different depending on your hardware.

That being said, there are some design aspects that I’m not really enthusiastic about. Helvetica Neue doesn’t look as good on my 2008 MacBook, I’ve tried it. It’s not as sharp and crisp and I strongly prefer Lucida Grande as the system typeface. Another one is the translucent sidebar in Finder and Messages. It seems a bit distracting to me, especially in full-screen view. This is something I didn’t like in Windows Vista and Windows 7 and I doubt I will like it in Yosemite. I like to have a bit more of layering without adding translucency to every piece. If there is an option to turn it off, I will be happier.

Last edited by KALLT; Jul 6, 2014 at 11:32 AM.
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