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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:13 AM   #1
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Hands On with Windows XP on Mac

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MacCentral posts a detailed walkthrough of an experience installing Windows XP on a Intel Mac mini.

The article gives a good overview of the process and some potential pitfalls during the installation, as well as ongoing driver issues.

Quote:
In short, this is very new technology, and things can still go very wrong with the process. If you have but one Mac, and you rely on it to make a living, I would not recommend installing Windows XP on it just yet. Over time, the process should get easier and safer, but as of today, itís still highly experimental.
MacCentral also ran some early Photoshop benchmarks, and plans on more extensive testing.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:15 AM   #2
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Nice. I'm more or less waiting for video drivers to try this out, even though I have nothing essential on my iMac.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:15 AM   #3
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Until games are running, does anyone care?

Professionals who need a windows app will by a windows box.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:22 AM   #4
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Until Dual Boot Macs are offically support and endorsed I wont be playing around with this it seems a little risky for the moment on Rev A Intel Mac products.

It just seems as though people are just putting XP on an Intel Mac just for sake of doing it not because they actually need to.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:23 AM   #5
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What could happen if you did install Windows XP on your Mac and something went wrong? Wouldnt it be in a seperate partition or something to the Macintosh OS?

Anyway, I'm sure drivers etc. will be out shortly to make the process as safe as it would be to install XP on a Windows machine.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:23 AM   #6
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Seems like a lot of trouble to go through, just to setup a dual boot. If you need to run Windows for whatever reason, just suck it up and buy a Windows computer. Dual booting is a complete pain in the neck, for many reasons.

If you decide to setup the dual boot, you can save a good deal of money by purchasing OEM versions of Windows from newegg.com or some other retailer.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus
What could happen if you did install Windows XP on your Mac and something went wrong? Wouldnt it be in a seperate partition or something to the Macintosh OS?

Anyway, I'm sure drivers etc. will be out shortly to make the process as safe as it would be to install XP on a Windows machine.
There are heat issues with running Windows on Intel Macs. Apparently, the fans do not kick on like they should which could potentially damage system components. Although, the computer should just shutdown if it gets too hot before any serious damage is done.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:32 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supergod
Until games are running, does anyone care?

Professionals who need a windows app will by a windows box.
Not all. I need Windows for ONE financial website. I am *this* close to ditching this 3 year old Dell laptop and selling my PB for a MBP with Windows and OSX.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 09:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgunn
There are heat issues with running Windows on Intel Macs. Apparently, the fans do not kick on like they should which could potentially damage system components. Although, the computer should just shutdown if it gets too hot before any serious damage is done.
I read something yesterday saying that people have used thermal probes and discovered that XP runs at the same case temps or lower than when running OSX. I'll know for sure later today, i'm going to buy a 20" imac and hopefully successfully install XP for work on a small partition.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 10:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezekielrage_99
Until Dual Boot Macs are offically support and endorsed I wont be playing around with this it seems a little risky for the moment on Rev A Intel Mac products.

It just seems as though people are just putting XP on an Intel Mac just for sake of doing it not because they actually need to.
official support isn't likely to happen. tis only risky for the data on your harddrive. play around, take it off, put osx back on.

no problem.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 10:08 AM   #11
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More please :-)
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 10:41 AM   #12
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Utilities exist to make the creation of the CD and installation of the xom.efi file easier.

One such utility

<selfish promo>

xomhelper

</selfish pomo>

Can find it at the WIKI or in the onmac forums.

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Old Mar 24, 2006, 10:44 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgunn
There are heat issues with running Windows on Intel Macs. Apparently, the fans do not kick on like they should which could potentially damage system components. Although, the computer should just shutdown if it gets too hot before any serious damage is done.
Actually, that's not quite accurate. I just installed XP on my Intel iMac yesterday and it's pretty much at the same temperature as it was under OS X.

The iMacs no longer use a fan system that is controlled by the OS (ala the G5s). It is now a self-contained system that runs based on ambient temperatures - it doesn't use or require the OS to cool the system.

The powerbooks, on the other hand, might be affected by this, but at this point I haven't read anything confirming an issue. But it's possible, I suppose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Shamus"
What could happen if you did install Windows XP on your Mac and something went wrong? Wouldnt it be in a seperate partition or something to the Macintosh OS?
I guess we'll have to wait and see - I was a bit surprised at how much trouble Rob Griffin (the Macworld author) had with his system becoming unbootable, but I don't fully understand the technology being used, either, so I could be full of hot air. It would seem to me, though, that the method should be fairly safe as the xom.efi bootloader is not written to firmware, but stored as a file.

At any rate Windows is on a completely separate partition, so the key area that could cause your system not to boot would be issues with the bootloader, and not with windows specifically.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 10:53 AM   #14
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I've installed XP on my 20" iMac at home and on a Macbook Pro at work. They both run XP very well. (Although no video drivers=no games ) The fans run on both and I have not noticed a difference in temp on either system. The Macbooks get blazing hot whether your in OS X or XP. I found it interesting as well that Rob had such a tough time getting XP going. Once I followed the directions on the Wiki "exactly" I did fine. My problem is I always think I know better and try and do things my way. Not a good idea most of the time. Also before posting about things you don't really know much about you might want to check the wiki at wiki.onmac.net for accurate info.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 10:53 AM   #15
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XP on MBP 1.83 is a reality!

I've loaded XP on my macbook pro 1.83! Because Apple does not ship an EFI compatibility layer, the MBP is not recognizing the ATI X1600 video drivers. (Video still has great resolution and colors, like you expect from correct drivers, but is slow to refresh)

Also, the same problem with USB. Network and wireless funtion perfectly with a Thinkpad driver listed in the instructions.

Built in sound only works in the headphone jack.

So, the EFI compatibility layer will remain a major stumbling block.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 11:08 AM   #16
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OnMac.net site down?

Anyone having problems with onmac.net? The site appears to be down and I've got a couple MBP's here waiting to get XP on them. Cease and desist? Traffic?

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Old Mar 24, 2006, 11:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justflie
Quote:
Originally Posted by topgunn
There are heat issues with running Windows on Intel Macs. Apparently, the fans do not kick on like they should which could potentially damage system components. Although, the computer should just shutdown if it gets too hot before any serious damage is done.
I read something yesterday saying that people have used thermal probes and discovered that XP runs at the same case temps or lower than when running OSX. I'll know for sure later today, i'm going to buy a 20" imac and hopefully successfully install XP for work on a small partition.
*I* read that it was the fans won't turn *off* (hardware turns them on by default) which can lead to faster battery drain and more noise - albeit, not a bad a problem as overheating!
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 11:52 AM   #18
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Correct me if I'm wrong: to install XP u gotta do something to the firmware. If something goes wrong can the firmware be changed back to "factory setting"?
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 12:12 PM   #19
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Thank You Pioneers

Just wanted to thank you all for the work you are doing to help bring XP fully to the Intel Macs. I am sure by this summer all the kinks will be worked out. But meanwhile I have to hand it to you all for the courage you exhibit in going forward to help make it easy for future users to have this capability.

Has anyone worked the front of being able to run XP AT THE SAME TIME as OS X in a separate window? So far all I see is a boot one or the other situation. Is that correct? Or is booting XP alongside OS X an unrealistic expectation? I'm thinking more like Virtual PC works but way faster. Is that in our future?
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 12:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkMatt
Anyone having problems with onmac.net? The site appears to be down and I've got a couple MBP's here waiting to get XP on them. Cease and desist? Traffic?

Apple has stated many times that they don't mind if people try to run Windows on their hardware, and will not do anything to stop people from doing so.

They don't want people putting OSX on other hardware though, so that's when you'll see cease and desist orders.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 12:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zephc
*I* read that it was the fans won't turn *off* (hardware turns them on by default) which can lead to faster battery drain and more noise - albeit, not a bad a problem as overheating!
This makes more sense. On a G5 (don't know about other models), the software-controlled fans all jump into full speed if the controlling software stops running.

This will make the computer loud, and may drain batteries on a laptop, but it won't cause overheating.
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 12:42 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia
Has anyone worked the front of being able to run XP AT THE SAME TIME as OS X in a separate window?
You're talking about a virtual machine environment. One running in a virtual machine hosted by the other (a-la VPC) or both running as clients of a VM-supervisor program.

There is work in progress. Qemu and Bochs are two examples people have discussed recently. I'm certain Microsoft is working on VirtualPC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia
So far all I see is a boot one or the other situation. Is that correct?
That's what they're discussing right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia
Or is booting XP alongside OS X an unrealistic expectation? I'm thinking more like Virtual PC works but way faster. Is that in our future?
Let's see here... You want to run two operating systems at once, but you don't want to use any virtual machine tech? And how can you even imagine this being possible without two independent computers running inside the chassis?
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Old Mar 24, 2006, 12:46 PM   #23
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This rules, soon it will be super easy to get windows on da mac.


And it will get to the point where there will be practically no risk.

Gotta love the tech heads out there making this happen.

By the time I get a mac book, it will be a slick, painless install.

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Old Mar 24, 2006, 01:10 PM   #24
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The process is easy IF you follow the directions. The longest time is re-insatll of OSX after you partition the HD, and formatting the other partition NTFS. The actual install and driver install is a no brainer. Save yourself some time and angst, download the drivers ahead of time and burn them to a CD...

onmac.net is down again right now. There supposedly based in Texas and there appears to be a problem with internet access in Texas ysterday and today.

20" iMac all works excpet sound from the built in speakers, and naitive graphic hardware acceleration. Turn that option off and it is rather usable for general computing.

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Old Mar 24, 2006, 02:27 PM   #25
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Not surprised this isn't for the feint of heart.

Quote:
In short, this is very new technology, and things can still go very wrong with the process. If you have but one Mac, and you rely on it to make a living, I would not recommend installing Windows XP on it just yet. Over time, the process should get easier and safer, but as of today, itís still highly experimental.
Called it.
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