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View Poll Results: Are You Waiting For A Stoakley-Seaburg and 2007 Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro
No. I bought the FrankenMac 30 7.08%
Yes I Will Wait 'Til Apple Gets It Right 246 58.02%
Not sure. Waiting for benchmarks on the 4.4.07 model. 27 6.37%
I'll stick with 4 cores, thank you very much. 121 28.54%
Voters: 424. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:34 PM   #1
Multimedia
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2007 Harpertown Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro

I was never waiting for a FrankenMac. I wrote many posts saying that if Apple started the 8-Core without Stoakley-Seaburg inside and a new round of 2007 graphics cards that you could count me out. So I don't know how much longer they think they can fool us, the informed buyer, with a FAKE 8-Core. Throwing a pair of Clovertowns into last year's model does not a REAL 8-Core Mac Pro make. OK. OK. It'll work better sure. But $5-7k for nothing new other than a pair of Clovertowns? I don't think so.

My GUESS is that the real deal will require Leopard as well. And I'm GUESSING Apple got the jump on all the other vendors by making a deal with Intel to take all their first born 3GHz Clovertowns in exchange for an agreement to use them in the 2006 motherboard Pre-SS which I bet the other vendors don't want to do. This can't be the final 8-Core product more like a feeler for how big the 8-core market is going to be. Perhaps Apple placed a big order for the first SS motherboards as well. Who knows?

I agree I was mistaken to tell all the 4 core buyers to wait. My bad. I apologize.

Still waiting for the real deal. Hope it won't take all Summer. Care to hold hands together and sing Cum-Bi-Ya?

Last edited by Multimedia; Aug 14, 2007 at 08:49 PM.
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:46 PM   #2
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Where's the "I just want a headless iMac" option?

It does seem odd that they didn't add any new features aside from the 8-core model... maybe at WWDC.
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:52 PM   #3
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Gravey Money For Nominal Cost To Apple While They Finish Getting SS-Leopard Ready

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Originally Posted by atari1356 View Post
Where's the "I just want a headless iMac" option?

It does seem odd that they didn't add any new features aside from the 8-core model... maybe at WWDC.
Well the deal is that the SS motherboard isn't shipping yet. So they decided they didn't have anything to lose by shipping FrankenMacs to begin with.
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Old Apr 4, 2007, 11:53 PM   #4
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i said to wait for the tigerton - and you strongly suggested that it was frickin nuts to wait people need the power NOW - but said i, tigerton will have new chip making process - faster internals etc... but said you - we can't wait... we need 8 cores NOW

see i would never say 'told you so'

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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:10 AM   #5
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Macromedia what are your personal needs for eight processing cores, I have been following threads and have seen you pop in and out urging the need for Apple to release an 8 core system.

For the added cost to jump to the FrankenMac as you call it; wouldn't you just be better off keeping the G5 Quad you have, getting a 3.0Ghz Dual Dual Core MacPro, a copy of XSans, and a cheap KVM (as opposed to taking a hit on selling your G5 Quad)

I know it is the future but as a single unit workstation; who has maxed out the capabilities of a none quad core 3.0Ghz MacPro (keeping in mined that CS3 is not in the wild)?
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post
I was never waiting for a FrankenMac. I wrote many posts saying that if Apple started the 8-Core without Stoakley-Seaburg inside and a new round of 2007 graphics cards that you could count me out. So I don't know how much longer they think they can fool us, the informed buyer, with a FAKE 8-Core. Throwing a pair of Clovertowns into last year's model does not a REAL 8-Core Mac Pro make. OK. OK. It'll work better sure. But $5-7k for nothing new other than a pair of Clovertowns? I don't think so.

My GUESS is that the real deal will require Leopard as well. And I'm GUESSING Apple got the jump on all the other vendors by making a deal with Intel to take all their first born 3GHz Clovertowns in exchange for an agreement to use them in the 2006 motherboard Pre-SS which I bet the other vendors don't want to do. This can't be the final 8-Core product more like a feeler for how big the 8-core market is going to be. Perhaps Apple placed a big order for the first SS motherboards as well. Who knows?

I agree I was mistaken to tell all the 4 core buyers to wait. My bad. I apologize.

Still waiting for the real deal. Hope it won't take all Summer. Care to hold hands together and sing Cum-Bi-Ya?

shurely that's kumbaya?

i think they just rolled out what they could to have those buying CS3 go for 'the latest and greatest' at the same time, but leopard and the motherboard weren't ready in time. vat to do!?

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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:12 AM   #7
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Is Tigerton Right Around The Corner This Summer?

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Originally Posted by DrGruv1 View Post
i said to wait for the tigerton - and you strongly suggested that it was frickin nuts to wait people need the power NOW - but said i, tigerton will have new chip making process - faster internals etc... but said you - we can't wait... we need 8 cores NOW

see i would never say 'told you so'
I don't think It's saying it's gotta be Tigerton. Is Tigerton really that close?

But I agree I was far too strident in my screams to wait. My apologies.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atari1356 View Post
Where's the "I just want a headless iMac" option?

It does seem odd that they didn't add any new features aside from the 8-core model... maybe at WWDC.
I posted a headless Octocore (frankenmac) on the 8-way has arrived thread. I also stood up for MM not that he particularly needs it. After all, he has stated a clear opinion and position and stuck with it. Yes there is a bit of collateral damage in his presentation and style, but then, without that he would be no phun at all!

It is indeed true that the marginal benefits of this 8-way are "reduced". But not only by the lack of the primary benefits of SS. Also 10.4 is not really aware of topology and the threading in the kernel and the drivers and the program calls themselves are not yet well suited for over 4 cores.

That problem can be alleviated by running instances of programs with 2-4 cores each.

But the primary criticism seems to stem from MacOS and the primary programs that run on it not themselves well addressing 8 cores.

To those folks I say this. This is like the PB Ti 400. It is a programmers machine to refine those issues. It is not Rev A in the sense it is going to break down. But it is the explorer machine for Apple on "many" core topologies in single user machines.

In the past we have seen many core grids and networked macs and clusters, and server farms. But this is different. This is an effort to take a single node and make IT many cores and make the OS and software deal with THAT node of cores well, so once achieved it can be replicated accross grids, clusters, farms and "Internet 2.0".

All hail the early adopters! Respect for those waiting for the real "end user" machine to hatch. It is in gestation mode right now.

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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:22 AM   #9
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why not wait another 6 years, the computers will be much faster by then.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
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why not wait another 6 years, the computers will be much faster by then.
It's not about waiting 6 years, it's about waiting till the time is right and you feel comfortable with a piece of hardware which you want to last you a considerable amount of time.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:27 AM   #11
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We're Not Talking About Waiting Forever Here. Just 'Til It's All 2007 Components

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Originally Posted by product26 View Post
why not wait another 6 years, the computers will be much faster by then.
This isn't anything about waiting forever. It's about waiting for the strategically correct moment to get a truly modern version. This is not truly modern and not worth the money in my opinion.

I mean they aren't even offering us a Blu-ray HD DVR option. How modern is that?

I do see the role it plays as a development platform for all the software developers though.

Last edited by Multimedia; Apr 5, 2007 at 01:26 AM.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:28 AM   #12
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For some of us novices... could you explain what the old vs new logic board differences are? or at least point me in that direction?
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:33 AM   #13
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Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard Article Link

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Originally Posted by Koodauw View Post
For some of us novices... could you explain what the old vs new logic board differences are? or at least point me in that direction?
Faster Bus with much more sophisticated multi-core management chipset called Stoakley-Seaburg (SS). This article pretty much explains what we're waiting for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoakley Platform Article by Geoff Gasior 11.13.06 TechReport.com
A question of chipsets
Xeon 5300 processors should have no problems plugging into motherboards based on Intel's current Bensley platform. Bensley, of course, features dual front-side busses (one per CPU) at speeds of 1,066 or 1,333MHz, and supports fully buffered DIMMs (FB-DIMMs). We covered the Bensley platform when Intel rolled out the first "Woodcrest" dual-core Xeon processors, so it's nothing new. However, quad-core Clovertown CPUs will also work with Intel's upcoming Stoakley platform, which is due to debut in the first quarter of next year.

Last edited by Multimedia; Apr 5, 2007 at 12:41 AM.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post
This isn't anything about waiting forever. It's about waiting for the strategically correct moment to get a truly modern version. This is not truly modern and not worth the money in my opinion.

I mean they aren't even offering us a Blu-ray HD DVR option. How modern is that?
I agree with the "alignment of components argument". Therefore if you were not purely posturing, or perceived as doing so, you would have a "reference model" you feel currently fits that bill pending its being superceeded by a better model, presumably SS.

So what say you. What is "today's" real deal?

Anybody who really needs BR or HD-DVD can buy an external one right now. Internal is rarely "better".

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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:39 AM   #15
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So here is my question to you (multimedia) since you do a lot of video editing.

Does iDVD/DVD Studio pro or compressor (i don't know why i put compression) take advantage of multicores? Or, would the 8 core allow you to encode something while your working on another project(if the 4 core won't already allow you to- i dunno)?

What will the 8 core allow you to do that the current 4 core won't if we stick strictly to video editing. If there is a time difference, how big do you think it would be?

Last edited by diamond3; Apr 5, 2007 at 12:44 AM.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond3 View Post
So here is my question to you (multimedia) since you do a lot of video editing.

Does iDVD/DVD Studio pro or compression take advantage of multicores? Or, would the 8 core allow you to encode something while your working on another project(if the 4 core won't already allow you to- i dunno)?

What will the 8 core allow you to do that the current 4 core won't if we stick strictly to video editing. If there is a time difference, how big do you think it would be?
"Compressor" is notorious for falling short here.

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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimedia View Post
Faster Bus with much more sophisticated multi-core management chipset called Stoakley-Seaburg (SS). This article pretty much explains what we're waiting for.
It not only didn't debut in the first quarter - or the second - it is almost guaranteed to not see the light of day till well into the third. Oops. You hung your hat on the wrong guy there MM.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:46 AM   #18
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April 15th Apple NAB Event Will Say

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Originally Posted by diamond3 View Post
So here is my question to you (multimedia) since you do a lot of video editing.

Does iDVD/DVD Studio pro or compression take advantage of multicores? Or, would the 8 core allow you to encode something while your working on another project(if the 4 core won't already allow you to- i dunno)?

What will the 8 core allow you to do that the current 4 core won't if we stick strictly to video editing. If there is a time difference, how big do you think it would be?
Faster rendering we imagine. Let's leave it to Apple to tell us April 15th.

I think having an 8-core Mac Pro is more about running several processor intense applications simultaneously more than it is about running one thing faster. However, the authors of Toast 8 told me at MacWorld that it will use all 8 cores right away.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 12:59 AM   #19
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However, the authors of Toast 8 told me at MacWorld that it will use all 8 cores right away.
Thats insane to think how fast that would be then compared to my 1ghz imac. If apple gets compressor or idvd to utilize the multicore setup, we could start to see a drastic change in encoding times. I've heard the current idvd doesn't even encode using all of the C2Duo processing power.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 01:02 AM   #20
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I Don't Think Geoff Gasior Misled Us At All

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It not only didn't debut in the first quarter - or the second - it is almost guaranteed to not see the light of day till well into the third. Oops. You hung your hat on the wrong guy there MM.
Not me. If I have to wait 'til Summer so be it. I'm not willing to spend that much money for mostly last year's tech. Sorry. I'd rather have the future intel on Intel from Geoff Gasior and wait than buy this non-SS system without knowing about SS coming soon. Wouldn't you?
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 01:27 AM   #21
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Faster Bus with much more sophisticated multi-core management chipset called Stoakley-Seaburg (SS). This article pretty much explains what we're waiting for.
Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 5300 series processors
Intel Core microarchitecture
8MB of L2 cache per processor (16MB total; each pair of cores shares 4MB)
128-bit SSE3 vector engine
64-bit data paths and registers
Energy efficiency optimization
1.33GHz, 64-bit dual independent frontside buses

What's so different about the SS motherboard? The bus speed looks the same to me. Sure the current board has been out for a while, but a new one isn't going to make it ridiculously faster. As for Blu-Ray or HDDVD drive, who cares. You can buy one of your own. New graphics cards? Please... The current ones are fine, but I'm sure some goodies will be out soon. Also, memory is a lot cheaper now for Mac Pros than when it first came out. That's a huge savings right there. I was hoping for some kind of h.264 hardware encoding, and SLI support. I can wait for Blu-ray, and I can always upgrade my video card. Of course, my order is already in for my 8 core mac pro, so maybe I'm just trying to justify my purchase!
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 01:28 AM   #22
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Not me. If I have to wait 'til Summer so be it. I'm not willing to spend that much money for mostly last year's tech. Sorry. I'd rather have the future intel on Intel from Geoff Gasior and wait than buy this non-SS system without knowing about SS coming soon. Wouldn't you?
Doesn't you ability to wait indicate that you don't have the "need" for a faster system.

I keep hearing be patient and wait - but you can be forever waiting for the newest/latest and greatest. Buy when you need - your personal needs should not influence the buying decisions of others being that they are merely conjecture.

IF YOU NEED BUY, IF YOU WANT WAIT!
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 01:37 AM   #23
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Congratulations Portishead

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Originally Posted by portishead View Post
Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon 5300 series processors
Intel Core microarchitecture
8MB of L2 cache per processor (16MB total; each pair of cores shares 4MB)
128-bit SSE3 vector engine
64-bit data paths and registers
Energy efficiency optimization
1.33GHz, 64-bit dual independent frontside buses

What's so different about the SS motherboard? The bus speed looks the same to me. Sure the current board has been out for a while, but a new one isn't going to make it ridiculously faster. As for Blu-Ray or HDDVD drive, who cares. You can buy one of your own. New graphics cards? Please... The current ones are fine, but I'm sure some goodies will be out soon. Also, memory is a lot cheaper now for Mac Pros than when it first came out. That's a huge savings right there. I was hoping for some kind of h.264 hardware encoding, and SLI support. I can wait for Blu-ray, and I can always upgrade my video card. Of course, my order is already in for my 8 core mac pro, so maybe I'm just trying to justify my purchase!
Congrats. Can't wait to read your performance report. Mustard makes a good case for my situation. I don't need it, I want it. So I'll hang in there waiting for the other shoe to drop as Rocketman so elequently explaines above.
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 01:41 AM   #24
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so whats the gut feeling on this SS technology being released?
how many months are we talking about here? (as a guesstimate obviously)

Also if you're running a business why don't you rent the machine? and then trade up when the new tech comes out.
its the only thing that makes sense to me, no idea about the US but here in AUS the monthly payments are all tax deductible too
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Old Apr 5, 2007, 01:42 AM   #25
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Not me. If I have to wait 'til Summer so be it. I'm not willing to spend that much money for mostly last year's tech. Sorry. I'd rather have the future intel on Intel from Geoff Gasior and wait than buy this non-SS system without knowing about SS coming soon. Wouldn't you?
Multimedia,

Don't you think you are over rating the need for SS in the 3 GHz Octo?

The FSB is already the faster 1333 Mhz speed, same as SS. The MCH handles more memory but is still limited to 667mhz memory, same as current controller.

The biggest difference in the improved snoop filter, adds 25% more continuous throughput, but who knows how that will actually translate into overall performance boost.

Also SS supports more pci channels, but is that really going to make all the difference between purchasing now or in 6 months.

I'm waiting for NAB, to see if Leopard is announced and if possible BR DVR options are added. Maybe Apple didn't want to let the cat out of the bag too early. But if there is no mention of Leopard or BR. I'm not sure if I want to hold out til WWDC, just to see if SS might become available in July - August.

What if Apple waits for the 45 nm quad core cpus before debuting SS? There might not be a new Mac Pro til Dec. 2007.
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