iPod Touch: 'Negative Black' Screen Issue

MacRumors · 11:34 AM

iLounge posts an extensive review of the iPod Touch and found that in comparison to the iPhone, it was somewhat disappointing. Of note, they felt that the video screen had a shallow viewing angle and an unusual "shimmering effect" in dark spots.

Similar reports and examples have been posted on various message boards (Apple thread, MacRumors thread, Flickr set, Youtube Video), and discussion has been filling our iPod Touch forum.

The Washington Post's first look at the iPod touch describes the issue in more detail:

Quote:

Unfortunately the 16GB unit I picked up at the San Francisco Apple store has a display problem that makes many dark scenes almost unwatchable. Video looks reversed out in dark areas, creating a very distracting negative effect.

The issue does not appear to affect every iPod touch, as at least one user has posted photos of an unaffected iPod touch.

Article Link

bdj21ya · Sep 17, 2007, 10:33 AM

This seems pretty lame. Apple really needs to work on their display quality control.

Spock · Sep 17, 2007, 10:37 AM

I have a PSP that does this exact thing, cant stand it. Guess the Touch will be on the refurb list sooner than I thought.

atari1356 · 10:56 AM

For what it's worth, when I look at my iPhone straight on, the black areas look "shimmery" too. Tilting it slightly makes the picture look fine. I was slightly annoyed by this at first, but decided it's really not that big of a deal to just tilt the thing a little.

EDIT: after seeing that YouTUBE video, I can say that my iPhone is not quite that bad

megfilmworks · Sep 17, 2007, 10:45 AM

The article mentions that the wifi store is available now for the iPhone. Is he jumping the gun or am I missing something?

phakebrill · Sep 17, 2007, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdj21ya

This seems pretty lame. Apple really needs to work on their display quality control.

Couldn't agree more... I've posted several times on these forums regarding my issues with several MBP's that I no longer own - RETURNED! There seem to be so many problems with screens these day's - what is going on here?

Am I glad I got the "old" 24-inch iMac in White!

ddubbo · Sep 17, 2007, 10:49 AM

I just here more and more about quality problems with new Apple products.
It's seems to me that times of G4,G5, power macs and power books are gone

TurboSC · Sep 17, 2007, 10:56 AM

Apple has gotten pretty good about their quality control and is one of the few companies that still keep the consumer mind. I'm sure theyll address the problem.

Sandfleaz · Sep 17, 2007, 10:56 AM

Are these assembled in the same plants as the iPhone?
Are they the same components?

Want one bad, but will wait till this is resolved!

ant_s · Sep 17, 2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddubbo

I just here more and more about quality problems with new Apple products.
It's seems to me that times of G4,G5, power macs and power books are gone

Ever remember the "white spots" issue with the first batch of the aluminium PowerBook G4s? And iMac G5 screen banding issues?

Displays are a big problem for Apple and have been for some time. You'd think they'd learn from these issues. I was interested in the iPod Touch. Think I might wait a while now.

mrzippy · Sep 17, 2007, 10:57 AM

I hope these issues are sorted before they arrive in the UK, as I really really want an iPod touch!

About time Apple commented, as this has been picked up by numerous news sites.

Maybe they will do a Q&A in London tomorrow, you know someone will mention it!

morespce54 · Sep 17, 2007, 11:01 AM

Well, well, well... What do you know...

astronot · Sep 17, 2007, 11:03 AM

FWIW, I picked up an 8GB iPhone over the weekend, and it has the exact same problem... although probably not quite as bad. It is still pretty annoying though, anywhere on screen where there's a shadow, or someone has black hair, that area looks kind of silvery. I sure hope Apple can fix this with a software update.

JuicyGoo · Sep 17, 2007, 11:06 AM

So how bad is bad, really?

I haven't seen any drastic "shimmering" issues with the videos I've loaded onto my Touch yet, but I do see a bit of the effect in some really dark photos.

My question is how good of a black representation are we really able to expect on a "good" screen?

PlayWithTV · Sep 17, 2007, 11:08 AM

The question is. Is it a video compression issue or a hardware issue? Could it be fixed with a firmware update? Should I wait, or exchange it?

swingerofbirch · Sep 17, 2007, 11:12 AM

People on that YouTube discussion are saying they're canceling their Touch orders.

This is no time to be an Apple apologist; we must hold Apple's feet to the fire until they smell like a delicious baked apple.

It's only for Apple's own good that we demand quality from them.

powderblue17 · Sep 17, 2007, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddubbo

I just here more and more about quality problems with new Apple products.
It's seems to me that times of G4,G5, power macs and power books are gone

I love it when someone says something like this. I guess you've never heard of some of the problems Apple had before the Intel switch. Maybe you never had a problem before but tons of people havn't had a problem with there Intel machines either. Here is my list off the top of my head.

Wind Tunnel G4 PowerMacs
G4 Cube touch sensitive power button
iBook G3, G4 logic board failures
Titanium Powerbook display hindge

If anything I'd say their quality is getting better when you see how quiet their machines are nowadays, how thin they've gotten, and how much advanced tech devices like the iphone have in them. That doesn't mean their perfect but we have't seen any logic board recalls recently.

JobsRules · Sep 17, 2007, 11:15 AM

Electronic stuff has seen massive deflation in price over the last decade. While some of that has come from economies of scale or cheaper labour markets a great deal of it has come from making everything throwaway and flimsy and having no meaninful quality control.

It's cheaper to throw a load of cheaply-made stuff onto the market and just replace the bad ones than to check them properly before despatch. That's the model, sadly.

animenick65 · Sep 17, 2007, 11:16 AM

Its a pretty bad issue. My unit is almost unwatchable in scenes with large amounts of dark areas.

bdj21ya · Sep 17, 2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phakebrill

Couldn't agree more... I've posted several times on these forums regarding my issues with several MBP's that I no longer own - RETURNED! There seem to be so many problems with screens these day's - what is going on here?

Am I glad I got the "old" 24-inch iMac in White!

I haven't heard of any display probs with 24" iMac. I have heard that the 20" iMac is 18 Bit instead of true 24 bit, but I have an 18 bit MBP and have never had a problem, so I doubt I would care about this one.

maestrokev · Sep 17, 2007, 11:20 AM

I was trying to decide whether to order from Apple online to get the iTouch earlier or wait until Best Buy receives stock. Think I'll stick with Best Buy since they have an easier return policy.

This is disappointing but not unexpected since it's still a 1st Gen product.

Project · Sep 17, 2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powderblue17

I love it when someone says something like this. I guess you've never heard of some of the problems Apple had before the Intel switch. Maybe you never had a problem before but tons of people havn't had a problem with there Intel machines either. Here is my list off the top of my head.

Wind Tunnel G4 PowerMacs
G4 Cube touch sensitive power button
iBook G3, G4 logic board failures
Titanium Powerbook display hindge

If anything I'd say their quality is getting better when you see how quiet their machines are nowadays, how thin they've gotten, and how much advanced tech devices like the iphone have in them. That doesn't mean their perfect but we have't seen any logic board recalls recently.

Dont forget the battery recalls.

Digital Skunk · Sep 17, 2007, 11:32 AM

I don't think Apple has had any quality control issues above and beyond what any company would have. I think people pay more attention to them because we would expect better from Apple after paying so much money for a premium product.

I was interested in the Touch but I may just wait a while for it first, and get the iPod Classic 160 to tide me over until the Rev B Touch or some version of the iPhone that works with Sprint's network comes out.

chicagostars · Sep 17, 2007, 11:33 AM

"Mom always said don't buy 1st gen electronic devices." -- Bobby Brady

Funny thing about lust though; it still makes you want to have that which isn't neccessarily the best for you, including the latest iPod that hasn't seen enough street time yet.

Hecklerdanny · 11:50 AM

Here's what my screen looks like. It's an absolute joke. These are made to watch movies on, we can't just overlook it. That's like buying a car that doesn't start, but it's such a cool car that we can just overlook that small defect. Apple needs to do something about this quickly. The only possible way to get a picture that's viewable at all is to do what us who own them are calling "The Tilt Move"...Tilt it up and to the left...

I can hear it now...

"...But there is one more thing. It's a new iPod with touch controls...and we're calling it the iPod Tilt."

Sep 17, 2007, 10:40 AM	#4
atari1356 macrumors 65816 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Florida	For what it's worth, when I look at my iPhone straight on, the black areas look "shimmery" too. Tilting it slightly makes the picture look fine. I was slightly annoyed by this at first, but decided it's really not that big of a deal to just tilt the thing a little. EDIT: after seeing that YouTUBE video, I can say that my iPhone is not quite that bad __________________ cross-processing in Aperture \| calculon - a better calculator widget Last edited by atari1356 : Sep 17, 2007 at 10:56 AM.

Sep 17, 2007, 10:45 AM	#5
megfilmworks macrumors 68000 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks	The article mentions that the wifi store is available now for the iPhone. Is he jumping the gun or am I missing something? __________________ 17" MacBook Pro 2.33 - Dual G5 w/ Pro Tools iPod Gen1 - Nano Gen1 - iPhone Gen1 - iPhone 3G DA42 G1000 Gen1 BE G58 (2008)

Sep 17, 2007, 10:49 AM	#7
ddubbo macrumors member Join Date: Jan 2007	Quality I just here more and more about quality problems with new Apple products. It's seems to me that times of G4,G5, power macs and power books are gone

Sep 17, 2007, 10:56 AM	#8
TurboSC macrumors 65816 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California	Apple has gotten pretty good about their quality control and is one of the few companies that still keep the consumer mind. I'm sure theyll address the problem. __________________ www.sciphone.net - The best iPhone wallpapers and applications on the Internet. Now serving: 8280+ Wallpapers \| 38,000+ Applications.

Sep 17, 2007, 10:56 AM	#9
Sandfleaz macrumors regular Join Date: Jan 2007	Are these assembled in the same plants as the iPhone? Are they the same components? Want one bad, but will wait till this is resolved! __________________ Funniest T-Shirts & Stuff on the net http://www.cafepress.com/shirtspot

Sep 17, 2007, 10:33 AM	#2
bdj21ya macrumors 6502a Join Date: Sep 2006	This seems pretty lame. Apple really needs to work on their display quality control.

Sep 17, 2007, 10:37 AM	#3
Spock macrumors 65816 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Vulcan	I have a PSP that does this exact thing, cant stand it. Guess the Touch will be on the refurb list sooner than I thought.

Sep 17, 2007, 10:57 AM	#11
mrzippy macrumors regular Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kent, UK	I hope these issues are sorted before they arrive in the UK, as I really really want an iPod touch! About time Apple commented, as this has been picked up by numerous news sites. Maybe they will do a Q&A in London tomorrow, you know someone will mention it!

Sep 17, 2007, 11:01 AM	#12
morespce54 macrumors 6502a Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Around the World	Well, well, well... What do you know... __________________ ..:.::.:.:.::..:.: Oh, I get it. It's very clever :.:.::.:.:.::.:..:.::..:.::.:..:.::.:.::.:.::.. DO NOT OPERATE YOUR COMPUTER UNDER THE INFLUENCE!

Sep 17, 2007, 11:03 AM	#13
astronot macrumors newbie Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado	FWIW, I picked up an 8GB iPhone over the weekend, and it has the exact same problem... although probably not quite as bad. It is still pretty annoying though, anywhere on screen where there's a shadow, or someone has black hair, that area looks kind of silvery. I sure hope Apple can fix this with a software update. __________________ Whoosh... Splat!

Sep 17, 2007, 11:06 AM	#14
JuicyGoo macrumors member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NYC	So how bad is bad, really? I haven't seen any drastic "shimmering" issues with the videos I've loaded onto my Touch yet, but I do see a bit of the effect in some really dark photos. My question is how good of a black representation are we really able to expect on a "good" screen? __________________ wha?? huh?!? um...

Sep 17, 2007, 11:08 AM	#15
PlayWithTV macrumors regular Join Date: Sep 2007	The question is. Is it a video compression issue or a hardware issue? Could it be fixed with a firmware update? Should I wait, or exchange it? __________________ Chris http://TVRabble.com A disorderly crowd of people...and TV?

Sep 17, 2007, 11:12 AM	#16
swingerofbirch macrumors 68000 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Amalgamated States of Central North America	People on that YouTube discussion are saying they're canceling their Touch orders. This is no time to be an Apple apologist; we must hold Apple's feet to the fire until they smell like a delicious baked apple. It's only for Apple's own good that we demand quality from them. __________________ Blog of Failure After using a PC all day, coming home to my Mac is like a tall, cold glass of peach iced tea.

Sep 17, 2007, 11:15 AM	#18
JobsRules macrumors member Join Date: Jun 2006	Electronic stuff has seen massive deflation in price over the last decade. While some of that has come from economies of scale or cheaper labour markets a great deal of it has come from making everything throwaway and flimsy and having no meaninful quality control. It's cheaper to throw a load of cheaply-made stuff onto the market and just replace the bad ones than to check them properly before despatch. That's the model, sadly.

Sep 17, 2007, 11:16 AM	#19
animenick65 macrumors 6502 Join Date: Sep 2006	Its a pretty bad issue. My unit is almost unwatchable in scenes with large amounts of dark areas.

Sep 17, 2007, 11:20 AM	#21
maestrokev macrumors 6502a Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Australia/Canada	I was trying to decide whether to order from Apple online to get the iTouch earlier or wait until Best Buy receives stock. Think I'll stick with Best Buy since they have an easier return policy. This is disappointing but not unexpected since it's still a 1st Gen product. __________________ Mac Pro '09 2.66, CinemaDisplay 24", MBA Rev.C 1.86, TimeCapsule 2TB, iPhone 3GS 16GB

Sep 17, 2007, 11:32 AM	#23
Digital Skunk macrumors 68040 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Primarily in my Head	I don't think Apple has had any quality control issues above and beyond what any company would have. I think people pay more attention to them because we would expect better from Apple after paying so much money for a premium product. I was interested in the Touch but I may just wait a while for it first, and get the iPod Classic 160 to tide me over until the Rev B Touch or some version of the iPhone that works with Sprint's network comes out. __________________ What do I have?, stuff that I actually use for work! Some old, some new, all effective.

Sep 17, 2007, 11:33 AM	#24
chicagostars macrumors regular Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Chicago, IL	From a Sitcom Sage "Mom always said don't buy 1st gen electronic devices." -- Bobby Brady Funny thing about lust though; it still makes you want to have that which isn't neccessarily the best for you, including the latest iPod that hasn't seen enough street time yet.

Sep 17, 2007, 11:43 AM	#25
Hecklerdanny macrumors 6502 Join Date: Aug 2007	Here's what my screen looks like. It's an absolute joke. These are made to watch movies on, we can't just overlook it. That's like buying a car that doesn't start, but it's such a cool car that we can just overlook that small defect. Apple needs to do something about this quickly. The only possible way to get a picture that's viewable at all is to do what us who own them are calling "The Tilt Move"...Tilt it up and to the left... I can hear it now... "...But there is one more thing. It's a new iPod with touch controls...and we're calling it the iPod Tilt." Attached Thumbnails Last edited by Hecklerdanny : Sep 17, 2007 at 11:50 AM.

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