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Old Sep 27, 2007, 03:58 PM   #1
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3rd Party Apps Disabled in iPhone 1.1.1



As expected, the iPhone 1.1.1 Update will remove all 3rd party applications when you update.

Simply reinstalling Installer.app will not work as the Installer.app application is firmware specific. At present only supports firmwares 1.0, 1.0.1 and 1.0.2.

We are hopeful that nullriver will be able to update their installer to support 1.1.1, but there are no guarantees. If 3rd party support is important to you, you should wait to update your iPhone to 1.1.1.

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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:00 PM   #2
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When will this end, this "Cat and Mouse" game is getting old...
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:12 PM   #3
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I'd have to say I'm confused as to why developers started working on native apps (and unlocking apps) when it was clear apple wasn't going to support native apps or unlocking. I'd like to see these capabilities as much as anyone, but if they don't work with the way apple wants to do it, then whats the point?? I admire the balls to go ahead and hack your expensive phone out of curiosity, but at least don't charge people for software that may not work in 2 weeks time !!!
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:15 PM   #4
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but at least don't charge people for software that may not work in 2 weeks time !!!
They're often free apps that provide functionality that cannot be done (as well) with a web app...
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:23 PM   #5
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They're often free apps that provide functionality that cannot be done (as well) with a web app...
agreed.

and not all developers have jumped on. naturally, the ones that have are the only ones most know of. a few developers have openly shared their opinions not to develop until Apple supported 3 party apps.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by sachamun View Post
I'd have to say I'm confused as to why developers started working on native apps (and unlocking apps) when it was clear apple wasn't going to support native apps or unlocking. I'd like to see these capabilities as much as anyone, but if they don't work with the way apple wants to do it, then whats the point?? I admire the balls to go ahead and hack your expensive phone out of curiosity, but at least don't charge people for software that may not work in 2 weeks time !!!
Street Cred. I'd be pretty happy if I could say I got a 350z and a boatload of money because I unlocked the iPhone...
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sachamun View Post
I'd have to say I'm confused as to why developers started working on native apps (and unlocking apps) when it was clear apple wasn't going to support native apps or unlocking. I'd like to see these capabilities as much as anyone, but if they don't work with the way apple wants to do it, then whats the point?? I admire the balls to go ahead and hack your expensive phone out of curiosity, but at least don't charge people for software that may not work in 2 weeks time !!!
You're confusing unlocking with hacking (jailbreaking). No one has charged for any 3rd-party iPhone apps to my knowledge, only for unlocking the iPhone (and there's a free alternative for that anyway.)
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:38 PM   #8
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Unhappy

Didn't have an unlocked phone but only AppTapp Installer and now since 1.1.1 my autocorrect doesn't work anymore
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by madmaxmedia View Post
You're confusing unlocking with hacking (jailbreaking). No one has charged for any 3rd-party iPhone apps to my knowledge, only for unlocking the iPhone (and there's a free alternative for that anyway.)
No, I'm not confusing unlocking and hacking. All I said was they're both unsupported, so expect any apps to not work in the future.

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Originally Posted by psychofreak View Post
They're often free apps that provide functionality that cannot be done (as well) with a web app...
Yeah and thats great, but I'm just saying it's basically just an exercise if it's potentially going to be wiped automatically.

Last edited by devilot; Sep 28, 2007 at 06:28 AM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts; please use "Edit" and/or "Multi-Quote"
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 04:51 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sachamun View Post
Yeah and thats great, but I'm just saying it's basically just an exercise if it's potentially going to be wiped automatically.
Just because Apple doesn't support them doesn't mean Apple is making the right decision.

I stand behind the third party developers. No update for me yet.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:00 PM   #11
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I for one am very pleased that Apple has found a way to stop hackers from being able to install applications on my iPhone.

While it may be true that there are a lot of good folks out there that will develop and provide good quality software for the iPhone if it is left unlocked, it is also true that if they can do it so can the bad guys that want to hack your iPhone for all the wrong reasons.

I feel the same way out sim unlocking...when you bought the phone you knew what the story was...now you want to change the rules....I hope that unlocking will no longer work either.

I hope Apple has found a way to really lock the phones down tight this time!

Dave
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Last edited by daveporter; Sep 27, 2007 at 05:06 PM.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:05 PM   #12
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I think you have totally misunderstood this "hacking" thing.

It is not hacking like hacking an computer to be able to take control of it, it is "open" it so you self can install 3d party apps.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:06 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveporter View Post
I for one am very pleased that Apple has found a way to lock out hackers from being able to install applications on my iPhone.

While it may be true that there are a lot of good folks out there that will develop and provide good quality software for the iPhone if it is left unlocked, it is also true that if they can do it so can the bad guys that want to hack your iPhone for all the wrong reasons.

I hope Apple has found a way to really lock the phones down tight this time!

Dave
You choose what you install on your phone. There have been no reports or incidents of malicious third party software making it onto any iPhones.

Last edited by devilot; Sep 28, 2007 at 06:11 AM. Reason: personal
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveporter View Post
I for one am very pleased that Apple has found a way to lock out hackers from being able to install applications on my iPhone.

While it may be true that there are a lot of good folks out there that will develop and provide good quality software for the iPhone if it is left unlocked, it is also true that if they can do it so can the bad guys that want to hack your iPhone for all the wrong reasons.

I hope Apple has found a way to really lock the phones down tight this time!

Dave
No one was ever hacking "your" iphone. It has always been a complicated process that involves YOU giving the computer YOUR ROOT PASSWORD. If you are dumb enough to do that for any old app that comes along, you're bound to get your whole mac trashed someday. Wanna give me root access to your computer? I'll ssh in and delete your /System folder. Yeah, your Mac won't boot then. Maybe Apple should lock OS X down so that rootkitters can't mess up the system...

Come on, other users willfully jailbreaking their phones has NOTHING to do with the security of your own phone. Just because they can break into a phone that's plugged into their computer, that they have the password to, doesn't say anything about anyone hacking into your iPhone, or anyone else's. While that may be possible, that's a 100% separate issue.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:10 PM   #15
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No one was ever hacking "your" iphone. It has always been a complicated process that involves YOU giving the computer YOUR ROOT PASSWORD. If you are dumb enough to do that for any old app that comes along, you're bound to get your whole mac trashed someday. Wanna give me root access to your computer? I'll ssh in and delete your /System folder. Yeah, your Mac won't boot then. Maybe Apple should lock OS X down so that rootkitters can't mess up the system...

Come on, other users willfully jailbreaking their phones has NOTHING to do with the security of your own phone. Just because they can break into a phone that's plugged into their computer, that they have the password to, doesn't say anything about anyone hacking into your iPhone, or anyone else's. While that may be possible, that's a 100% separate issue.
If no one can install programs or code of any type on an iPhone that will protect everyone.

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Welch View Post
You choose what you install on your phone. There have been no reports or incidents of malicious third party software making it onto any iPhones.
Just because it has not happened to date does not mean it can't.

I use my phone for business and have a lot of confidential information on it. i don't want someone hacking into it.

If Apple locks down the iPhone that is great news for business users.

Dave
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Last edited by devilot; Sep 28, 2007 at 06:29 AM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts; please use "Edit" and/or "Multi-Quote"
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:15 PM   #16
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Apple doesn't seem to comprehend that with something as innovative as the iPhone, you WANT 3rd party attention -- otherwise you've got yourself another NEWTON. -___-
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:25 PM   #17
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Dave-
We dont want apples protection. Apple can simply state: "Installation of third party applications is not supported by Apple. installation of any non-apple applications voids your warrantee." Non Apple applications run on my macbook without a problem. A malicious application would have access to much more valuable information on here than on my iphone. I understand the risk, and I am willing to take it.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:27 PM   #18
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Apple doesn't seem to comprehend that with something as innovative as the iPhone, you WANT 3rd party attention -- otherwise you've got yourself another NEWTON. -___-
Perhaps you feel this way, many other do not. However, the proper way to express your dismay with Apple's decision is to lobby them to change their position. Assuming enough customers want the same changes then Apple will need to consider first if they can technically accomodate the requrest, then if it is in the financial interests of Apple to do so, and lastly, is it safe to do so (from a malware point of view).

The wrong way to try to get what you want is to try to hack or unlock the phone yourself or install unauthorized 3rd party software not approved by Apple/

Those that tried the unlocking are now realizing that it was a big mistake.

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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:28 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by daveporter View Post
Just because it has not happened to date does not mean it can't.

I use my phone for business and have a lot of confidential information on it. i don't want someone hacking into it.

If Apple locks down the iPhone that is great news for business users.

Dave
We're not talking about making your information accessible to anyone any more than it already is. You don't want 3rd party apps on your iPhone? DON'T INSTALL THEM. But others who are willing to take the "risk"? Let them. Opening the OS to development is not the same as "OMG I'm going to hack ur iphone!!!!1one!"
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Last edited by devilot; Sep 28, 2007 at 06:12 AM. Reason: personal
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:29 PM   #20
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Dave-
We dont want apples protection. Apple can simply state: "Installation of third party applications is not supported by Apple. installation of any non-apple applications voids your warrantee." Non Apple applications run on my macbook without a problem. A malicious application would have access to much more valuable information on here than on my iphone. I understand the risk, and I am willing to take it.
But I'm not and leaving the iphone open puts my interests in jeopardy. Your desire to have something Apple has deemed not authorized does not outweigh the security that the rest of us relied on when we purchased our phones.

Dave

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We're not talking about making your information accessible to anyone any more than it already is. You don't want 3rd party apps on your iPhone? DON'T INSTALL THEM. But others who are willing to take the "risk"? Let them. Opening the OS to development is not the same as "OMG I'm going to hack ur iphone!!!!1one!"
If NO ONE can install 3rd party code to an iPhone, period, then no one can install malware (via a web browser, or email client, etc) either.

Apple has obviously agreed with me on this since they have seemed to effectively totally secured the iPhone this time.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Last edited by devilot; Sep 28, 2007 at 06:30 AM. Reason: Merged consecutive posts; please use "Edit" and/or "Multi-Quote"
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:34 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by daveporter View Post
What don't you understand about this?

If NO ONE can install 3rd party code to an iPhone, period, then no one can install malware (via a web browser, or email client, etc) either.

Apple has obviously agreed with me on this since they have seemed to effectively totally secured the iPhone this time.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Dave

Why don't you lobby Apple to lock down OS X to iApps only? Certainly you want the same level of "security" on your Mac, don't you?
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:41 PM   #22
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But I'm not and leaving the iphone open puts my interests in jeopardy. Your desire to have something Apple has deemed not authorized does not outweigh the security that the rest of us relied on when we purchased our phones.

Dave
but the iphone is only open after you as the owner take measures that require both a computer and the phone connected to it. this isn't something that can be done over an internet connection. if you're most worried about security then you made the right move by not loading any of the third party apps, and you made the right move by updating since the update patches holes in safari and mail.app. but if to others functionality and control over one's own device is more important than the level of security you prefer i can't see how this makes things worse for everyone. if nothing else you should be happy because apple will keep changing things to keep the iphone crippled but also probably work on other fixes and features to keep people updating the phones. that way you get the security improvements you seem to consider a priority and those of us who don't want to be told what programs we can run on a device we own (the eula only covers the software for which i may only have a license to run, but since there's no discount on my phone there's not even the hint of the argument i give away any of my ownership rights to the physical unit)
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:44 PM   #23
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Dave-
We understand your point, you want security. We all like security. But is the decision by Apple to "lock down" the iphone, if it really is locked down, a security standpoint? It is the responsibility of apple to clearly state the risk of installing unsupported applications. They shouldn't lock it down to protect us. Is Apple locking us out for good? Are they working on a more secure way for us to gain phone functionality? Sure alot of the apps out there are games and of entertainment value but what about the legitimate apps? I would love you see a native Medical application, it would make the iphone 3x as functional for me. We all know the iphone is capable of supporting applications, we understand the risk it involves. I willingly installed applications to my phone, functional applications, and now that is gone. If apple make a more secure/approved/certification installation process then fine. Otherwise i will be happy to reinstall older firmware and continue the way i was. i do not want apple to "grant" me access such amazing updates such as the wifi store. I bought the phone because of its capabilities, hacking or not.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:48 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by daveporter View Post
What don't you understand about this?

If NO ONE can install 3rd party code to an iPhone, period, then no one can install malware (via a web browser, or email client, etc) either.

Apple has obviously agreed with me on this since they have seemed to effectively totally secured the iPhone this time.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Dave
Dude, people don't need to install programs to screw things up. they just need to get it to run code. and having code that YOU install yourself has NOTHING to do with forcefully installed/run software. And there's no disagreeing. There's no such thing as totally secure, especially with a lightweight device like the iPhone.
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Old Sep 27, 2007, 05:49 PM   #25
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I for one am very pleased that Apple has found a way to stop hackers from being able to install applications on my iPhone.

While it may be true that there are a lot of good folks out there that will develop and provide good quality software for the iPhone if it is left unlocked, it is also true that if they can do it so can the bad guys that want to hack your iPhone for all the wrong reasons.

I feel the same way out sim unlocking...when you bought the phone you knew what the story was...now you want to change the rules....I hope that unlocking will no longer work either.

I hope Apple has found a way to really lock the phones down tight this time!

Dave
What you seem to be missing here Dave is that if you CHOOSE not to allow 3rd party applications on your phone... THEN YOU DONT! It's not like they automatically will sync to your phone like some iPhone form of SPAM. You dont want them, you dont download them... PERIOD! But your philosophy makes no sense for the many that want and/or need other applications that as of right now Apple is not providing.

Be aware that any time ANYONE tries to block ANYTHING from ANYTHING it creates more of a need and want to do it! This cat-and-mouse game is just motivating more 3rd party application software writers to come... reference PROHIBITION!
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Last edited by devilot; Sep 28, 2007 at 06:30 AM. Reason: No need to quote OP
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