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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:05 PM   #1
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iPhone 1.1.1 Cracking Under 3rd Party Development Efforts



The effort to develop native applications on iPhone Firmware 1.1.1 has made the most progress over the past 24 hours than it has since the release of the firmware, thanks to the efforts of the iPhone Dev Team.

Erica Sadun has been blogging her effort to recreate a solution which gives access to the iPhone 1.1.1 file system. Such access is a big step to allow developers to recreate the third party applications that were available on firmwares 1.0 - 1.0.2.

iPhone 1.1.1 has seen its share of controversy due to its "bricking" of unlocked iPhones and removal of any third party applications that a user had installed.

Recent rumors have detailed Apple's plans for future iPhone applications and SDK. Arstechnica had indicated that the SDK would remain web-based but see usability improvements including ability to use web-based apps off-line and access to the iPhone's home menu. Later in the day, 9to5mac posted that Apple was working with select developers to gain native access.

In the end, both rumors may be true, with Apple-selected vendors agreeing to give Apple a portion of the sales getting iPhone-native access, and the rest of the community having to stick with web-based solutions, leaving the iPhone Dev Team's efforts as the only alternative avenue for native third party iPhone applications.

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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:15 PM   #2
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This seems to be happening pretty quickly. I thought it would take a lot longer.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:18 PM   #3
ventro
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Yay! Looks like they are making some progress! The future of the abroad unlocking community hinges on your work!
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:43 PM   #4
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1.1.1

Things are moving more rapidly than imagined.... Kudos!
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:48 PM   #5
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Keep up the good work we are pulling for you.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:55 PM   #6
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Indeed, thanks for all your hard work. Really appreciated.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 08:58 PM   #7
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one question:
Seems that Apple wants to make some money with select parners through games. the rest of the world is trying to open the iphone secrets and therebefore, unlocking it.

Should at&t and others telecoms pressure apple to open iphone to all developers?
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 09:22 PM   #8
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What I find funny about this is that as soon as 1.1.1 is successfully hacked Apple will release another update to block the latest hacking efforts.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 09:46 PM   #9
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What I find funny about this is that as soon as 1.1.1 is successfully hacked Apple will release another update to block the latest hacking efforts.
Thats why its called a cat and mouse game...Apple tries to keep them out and they'll find another way in. Its the way the system works. The PSP underwent the same thing, heck windows viruses/malware and windows update follow the same pattern. Just more nefarious
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 09:48 PM   #10
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What I find funny about this is that as soon as 1.1.1 is successfully hacked Apple will release another update to block the latest hacking efforts.
Who cares, though? they would have to offer some serious enhancements. I have 1.1.1, and I've been tossing around the thought of downgrading to 1.0.2 for the 3rd party apps again. They were a heck of a lot more fun than the "Wifi music store" or "double tap home screen macro." Apple would have to give me something compelling, like TRUE MAIL syncing (of folders and rules and everything) and JUNK MAIL FILTERING. I would kill all humans for a feature like that. Mail is really crummy on the iPhone (by comparison to the other stuff on it). I can't figure out why that stuff is missing, it's not remotely computationally intensive.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 09:57 PM   #11
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Who cares, though? they would have to offer some serious enhancements. I have 1.1.1, and I've been tossing around the thought of downgrading to 1.0.2 for the 3rd party apps again. They were a heck of a lot more fun than the "Wifi music store" or "double tap home screen macro." Apple would have to give me something compelling, like TRUE MAIL syncing (of folders and rules and everything) and JUNK MAIL FILTERING. I would kill all humans for a feature like that. Mail is really crummy on the iPhone (by comparison to the other stuff on it). I can't figure out why that stuff is missing, it's not remotely computationally intensive.
Seriously^....Apple better include some serious applications with 1.1.2 to make me even consider updating, 1.1.1 with apptapp may very well be enough to never make me update my iphone again
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 10:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by javaGuru View Post
What I find funny about this is that as soon as 1.1.1 is successfully hacked Apple will release another update to block the latest hacking efforts.
What's cool is if they do that every month or two, the iPhone will have a lot of needed Apple applications natively and the hackers will have had motivation, time, and feedback from multiple successes, to have lots of unapproved apps native to iPhone.

Then when ATNN is released, there will be dozens of apps.

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Old Oct 5, 2007, 10:44 PM   #13
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Keep up the good work!

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Old Oct 5, 2007, 11:03 PM   #14
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...

Now this has no reference to anyone who has posted anything in this latest thread (so rant about why did i even post this) but I just don't get why people think that the iPhone has to be opened up by Apple. Why does everyone think Apple is an open source software/hardware provider? They are not. They are and always have been quite the opposite. Yes, they have most definitely used open source code to their advantage but never supported their bundled package as a base for it. It seems the entire CE community is against Apple on every step they take to further their iPhone platform.

I really do not mean this to be an argument starter, it is truly just an expression of my bafflement regarding this piece of consumer electronics platform. While I do think 3rd party development is a good thing, it is completely ludicrous to think Apple should embrace it against their own terms. I repeat, 3rd party development is good. But if such applications are erased due to a progressive update from the software team at Apple we shouldn't blame Apple at all.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 11:33 PM   #15
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Apple you NEED to open up your ShZZZ!!!


I want SSH on my iPhone!!!
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 11:34 PM   #16
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Great post by massiv, food for thought in dangerous territory.
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Old Oct 5, 2007, 11:58 PM   #17
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i cant wait until you guys breakthrough again. I refuse to install 1.1.1 on my iphone until a solution is figured out.
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 12:09 AM   #18
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can't wait for the 1.1.1 hack. but seriously, with the security updates and all in 1.1.1 apple would really need something big to get people to update again.
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 12:26 AM   #19
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Keep it going!

I'm guessing I'm not the only one who is THRILLED there is this cat-and-mouse game going. Hope it continues for the entire useable life of my iPhone. In order for Apple to "break" the third-party apps they have to give us a new firmware update. And the only way we're going to download it is if it's got compelling new features.

Iterate this four or five times a year and we're going to have mass delete e-mail, a horizontal keyboard, folders in our mail app, and any number of other improvements much faster than we otherwise have. To both sides: keep up the fight!
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 12:34 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ajohn View Post
I'm guessing I'm not the only one who is THRILLED there is this cat-and-mouse game going. Hope it continues for the entire useable life of my iPhone. In order for Apple to "break" the third-party apps they have to give us a new firmware update. And the only way we're going to download it is if it's got compelling new features.

Iterate this four or five times a year and we're going to have mass delete e-mail, a horizontal keyboard, folders in our mail app, and any number of other improvements much faster than we otherwise have. To both sides: keep up the fight!
Excellent point! Definitely something to think about.

P.S. I can't wait to install a hackable 1.1.1 on my phone and actually get some volume out of the thing!
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 01:26 AM   #21
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We are not talking about "open source"

Quote:
Originally Posted by massiv View Post
Why does everyone think Apple is an open source software/hardware provider? They are not. They are and always have been quite the opposite. Yes, they have most definitely used open source code to their advantage but never supported their bundled package as a base for it.
This has nothing to do with open source software. "Open source" means just that -- the entire source code is "open" or available for anyone to look at, edit, change, or branch into a new program. The issue at hand is allowing applications to run on the iPhone that have been created by third party developers/companies. Just as Apple's OSX and Microsoft's Windows XP is closed source, the modified version of OSX on the iPhone is also closed source. The difference is that "Mac OSX" and Windows, like many other platforms, have the ability to run applications developed by third parties.
It doesn't seem like you truly meant to use the term "open source" as much as your meant to say "open platform" or some variant thereof. If this is the case, I apologize for elaborating on the difference, although I hope it helps a novice out there.
[/QUOTE]

Quote:
I really do not mean this to be an argument starter, it is truly just an expression of my bafflement regarding this piece of consumer electronics platform. While I do think 3rd party development is a good thing, it is completely ludicrous to think Apple should embrace it against their own terms. I repeat, 3rd party development is good. But if such applications are erased due to a progressive update from the software team at Apple we shouldn't blame Apple at all.
I think the majority of people here support the idea that Apple shouldn't be forced to embrace 3rd party apps against their own terms. However, they should embrace 3rd party application development in a way that allows many developers access to the platform. With some good people at the helm, Apple could implement a very good system that makes everyone happy.
They should allow apps to be downloaded from iTunes after being vetted through a quality/certification check to insure stability and security. They could really create a thriving community of development and innovation, and even announcing it would eliminate the backlash they are currently experiencing.

What people DO NOT want to see is an Iron grip "our corporate partners only" type of system. Limiting application development to a few large companies would lockout thousands of great OSX developers, stifle innovation and creativity, and lead to a situation of stagnation, poor quality products, and high prices. If you look at the examples in the marketplace today of these type of partnership arrangements, you will find exactly that. Just look at the Danger/T-mobile Sidekick platform.
On the other hand, by allowing all interested 3rd party developers access to the SDK, they will no doubt foster a large, active community and great things will come from that. Again, my view is not completely open development where people are downloading every app they can find to their iphone. This would be a system with quality, security, and reliability checks in place. Sort of like a "Runs on Iphone" certificate that digitally signs an application to only allow applications to run which have been screened. (other than one-phone only digital certification keys so you can write and run your own apps without needing to be screened. )
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 01:39 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by buymeaniphone View Post
i cant wait until you guys breakthrough again. I refuse to install 1.1.1 on my iphone until a solution is figured out.
haha, yah I want them to get through to. Cant wait good luck
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 04:01 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by massiv View Post
It seems the entire CE community is against Apple on every step they take to further their iPhone platform.
I really do not mean this to be an argument starter, it is truly just an expression of my bafflement regarding this piece of consumer electronics platform. While I do think 3rd party development is a good thing, it is completely ludicrous to think Apple should embrace it against their own terms. I repeat, 3rd party development is good. But if such applications are erased due to a progressive update from the software team at Apple we shouldn't blame Apple at all.
It's not a platform without third party apps, it's an appliance. Also I'd take issue with the your use of 'further', perhaps 'further lock down' would be a better description. The reason people are complaining is that this is bad for the consumer in the short term, and very bad for Apple in the long term. When other devices catch up and have things like an ebook/PDF reader, a spam filter and better email, VOIP, proper chat (not SMS), proper notes and todos, being able to save files on it, games etc etc, Apple will suddenly change their tune when people start to desert their 'platform'. If they had announced the possibility of an SDK people would be happy just to wait for that, with the promise of more functionality to come. Actually cutting off stuff like calendar entries on the touch is just mean spirited.

It'd also be nice if they treated their developers and users with a modicum of respect and didn't feed people bs about a 'web SDK' if they are intending to produce a real SDK.

If such applications are erased, I won't be surprised, I'll just be disappointed in Apple.
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 10:45 AM   #24
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It's not a platform without third party apps, it's an appliance. Also I'd take issue with the your use of 'further', perhaps 'further lock down' would be a better description. The reason people are complaining is that this is bad for the consumer in the short term, and very bad for Apple in the long term.
It'd also be nice if they treated their developers and users with a modicum of respect and didn't feed people bs about a 'web SDK' if they are intending to produce a real SDK.

If such applications are erased, I won't be surprised, I'll just be disappointed in Apple.
First off, you are making assumptions as if they were facts. Relative of Stella?

You have no evidence that, across the board, Apple is treating its developers with disrespect. That inference is simply childish and does not port to a mature and ubiquitous relationship between business partners. Since there are enormous 3rd party applications for OSX, it is highly unlikely that the companies are in a constant contentious relationship with Apple.

You're assumption that half-arsed applications are good for the consumer is probably based on the input you are getting from the complainers here, a vast minority of iPhone users. Properly designed 3rd party apps would be great and here the assumptions are more compelling.

Of all the apps I put on the iPhone only iToner worked as it should. The others, were, by and large, buggy and incomplete, including the dictionaries, which could have been useful but were a drag on the system and were very buggy.

What is needed is a careful deployment of 3rd party apps that have Apple's blessing. They will work and will be professional. That is not to say that the huge amount of work by the "dev" team won't produce some great programs in the future but so far that has not been the case-- save the famous unlocking efforts.

Further, I hope you won't be disappointed to find that unauthourised 3rd party apps that crash the iPhone, will leave it a brick and that neither ATT or Apple should be responsible for fixing it. Indeed, you should expect that to be the case and so, without complaint, enjoy the mantelpiece ornament you have have just created!!!
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Old Oct 6, 2007, 11:17 AM   #25
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First off, you are making assumptions as if they were facts. Relative of Stella?

You have no evidence that, across the board, Apple is treating its developers with disrespect. That inference is simply childish and does not port to a mature and ubiquitous relationship between business partners. Since there are enormous 3rd party applications for OSX, it is highly unlikely that the companies are in a constant contentious relationship with Apple.
I don't see that he made that assumption in the way that you suggest, I just see that he said Apple is treating developers poorly by leaving them out in the cold with some BS Web 2.0 SDK crap. Something along the lines of "hey, we're trying to stabilize this platform. Right now, all we can guarantee is that our own apps work on it. Our SDK isn't ready for you, but wait 6-8 months and we'll get you something." that would be nice. Whatever APPLE thinks, that would sell some units, both now and in 6-8 months.
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You're assumption that half-arsed applications are good for the consumer is probably based on the input you are getting from the complainers here, a vast minority of iPhone users. Properly designed 3rd party apps would be great and here the assumptions are more compelling.

Of all the apps I put on the iPhone only iToner worked as it should. The others, were, by and large, buggy and incomplete, including the dictionaries, which could have been useful but were a drag on the system and were very buggy.
...?

These applications are the only thing these people have to debug the iPhone. They aren't half-assed, they are the definition of great work given the situation. Half-assed is what I would say about an application like Mail on the iPhone. It is developed in-house at Apple, with all their great debugging tools and great interface developers, and it's crummy. It's missing core email features--the textbook definition of a half-assed application. Many of the iPhone 3rd party hacks were lacking features, BUT they were getting feature additions literally on a weekly basis. And as far as bugs go, that's what happens when your debugging tools are all but non-existent. It's a tough road to be on--those developers are still figuring out how the API works.
Quote:
What is needed is a careful deployment of 3rd party apps that have Apple's blessing. They will work and will be professional. That is not to say that the huge amount of work by the "dev" team won't produce some great programs in the future but so far that has not been the case-- save the famous unlocking efforts.
I don't know where you come off saying that, especially after accusing the guy of being "a relative of Stella." Apollo IM was getting really nice. several of the games were extremely good-looking and pretty darn stable. I have to admit, I stuck with only the most professional-looking apps, but I did have several on there, and I must admit that I have not noticed any "stability improvements" in 1.1.1 (which I am running now) over 1.0.2 with my 6-8 third-party apps. It's still crashing now and then for me for no apparent reason.
Quote:
Further, I hope you won't be disappointed to find that unauthourised 3rd party apps that crash the iPhone, will leave it a brick and that neither ATT or Apple should be responsible for fixing it. Indeed, you should expect that to be the case and so, without complaint, enjoy the mantelpiece ornament you have have just created!!!
Well, that is, indeed, how it goes. I don't think that's what the argument is really about, it seems like we're well past that argument (whether it's ok/bad/awesome/whatever for Apple to brick/lock phnes) and it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

This is just what's going to happen, the old cat and mouse. Hackers will hack the update within a couple of weeks, get their apps running again, fix them for the API tweaks/changes, and 2-3 weeks later Apple will release yet another update that breaks it all. And, contrary to all those silly people that said that hacking was slowing down the update cycle, it will actually speed it up like nothing else, because Apple can't afford to release updates once a month with a feature list like:
  • Bug fixes.
  • Security updates.
  • Breaks third party software.
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