Feasibility of New Solid Aluminum Manufacturing Process?

[MacRumors]

Businessweek spoke to some experts about the feasibility of Apple introducing a new manufacturing process and bringing notebook production in-house.

iSuppli analyst Kevin Keller believes that while short term costs would rise, there could be a savings over time:

"If you're working with one single unit of metal, you're reducing a lot of the materials costs and also a lot of labor time on assembly"

If true, the results could "be unlike anything else on the market in appearance and design" with elimination of screws and seams. Still, it's unclear if Apple could overcome the fact that such the process is quite time-intensive, and scale it enough for laptop production.

As well, the possibility of Apple investing in its own factories to assemble notebooks is seen as a very expensive and risky move and there appears to be no current evidence that Apple has embarked on such a project.

. "I'd be shocked if they started doing any of their own assembly," says Andy Hargreaves of Pacific Crest Securities in Portland, Ore. "That's the kind of drastic step that would hurt profits. I'm just not sure what the advantages would be."

Meanwhile, CNet's Adam Richardson, an industrial designer, dismisses some of the rumors claiming that Apple has been using both laser and waterjet methods for quite sometime. He reports that the process described by 9to5mac as applied to a notebook-sized device would be much more expensive than traditional manufacturing and feels it's "unlikely that it will literally be a hollowed out block of aluminum".

Article Link

[Yixian]

Well, wouldn't it being more expensive initially fit with Apple's lower forecast for the next Q?

[macbook123]

I don't believe the October 14 hype.

[.Chris]

Originally Posted by macbook123

I don't believe the October 14 hype.

really? hundreds of others say otherwise. also we know Christmas is soon so it only makes sence to have them out BEFORE not after

some people dont know how the world works

[rotorblade69]

I doubt VERY SERIOUSLY that they are starting with a solid block of aluminum. More like a Cast or forging of the rough shape, and then hog out the little details and put on a finish. I really do believe the next gen. Mac Books will be the same as they air and not have a removable battery if its not some type of slate or tablet. NOW for the Pro model Well it had better have a removable battery and a disk drive. Especially the 17" MBP.

[15 noveltybread]

I can't help but keep going back to thought of all the wasted material this process would produce. Hollowing out a block of aluminum? There has got to be 1 to 1 1/2 more cases worth in aluminum being dug out of that chunk that would need melted back down and cast into another block.

I don't know this rumor never made much sense to me.

[Mactagonist]

Originally Posted by 15 noveltybread

I can't help but keep going back to thought of all the wasted material this process would produce. Hollowing out a block of aluminum? There has got to be 1 to 1 1/2 more cases worth in aluminum being dug out of that chunk that would need melted back down and cast into another block.

I don't know this rumor never made much sense to me.

Do you think they would throw that out? Why?

Aluminum has a very low melting point, all scraps could be collected and melted into new blocks to use again at a very low cost in energy.

[15 noveltybread]

Originally Posted by BryanHarig

Do you think they would throw that out? Why?

Aluminum has a very low melting point, all scraps could be collected and melted into new blocks to use again at a very low cost in energy.

No I don't think they would throw it out. Thats why I said "....would need melted back down and cast into another block."

How would machining out a block and re-melting the scraps into a new block use less energy than a simple die pressed case? It's way less waste and much faster.

[Vulpinemac]

Originally Posted by 15 noveltybread

No I don't think they would throw it out. Thats why I said "....would need melted back down and cast into another block."

How would machining out a block and re-melting the scraps into a new block use less energy than a simple die pressed case? It's way less waste and much faster.

Logically, you're wrong. I admit it's easy to 'stamp out' a thin sheet of metal, but when you're trying for something a little thicker, a press is just too big and too slow to work. These laptop bodies are likely to be about 1/4" thick or thicker. Trying to 'press' this would be similar to injection molding, relatively slow and the product relatively unreliable. Stamping would increase the likelihood of weak corners where a pure molded block will be roughly the same strength throughout.

Meanwhile, milling machines are remarkably fast when working in aluminum. The bits don't wear as quickly as with steel and they can give you a finished look with almost no additional sanding required. Even water-jet technology would be faster and cleaner than stamping or pressing. And when you take the process of product change into account, it's a lot quicker changing out the pattern code in a computer-operated milling/water-jet machine than it is changing the dies in a press.

The old monocoque process can produce a pretty and fairly strong product, as long as the skin is rigid. But were at a point where we need a very rigid frame under a very thin and often-opened skin; the process doesn't work there. Take a look at the current iMacs and Mac Minis. these are an example of what Apple is trying to do for the new laptops.

[Vulpinemac]

Originally Posted by BryanHarig

Do you think they would throw that out? Why?

Aluminum has a very low melting point, all scraps could be collected and melted into new blocks to use again at a very low cost in energy.

To add to this, by milling a solid block, you have better rigidity and stronger fastenings than using any other kind of framing system. All of the milled-out material can be recycled for a fraction of the cost and materials than it would for raw aluminum ore.

Modern, computer-controlled milling and cutting systems work faster and cleaner than any previous method. Also, being computer controlled, changing the design is a simple matter of changing the 'pattern' the machine works from; allowing a complete changeover from laptop to iPod to desktop and back again in a matter of minutes, not hours or days. In other words, while there will be an initial cost hit, the overall cost can't help but go down over time; especially since aluminum is so soft and easy to mill. Even the milling bits themselves will have a much longer operational life than if they were milling steel.

Based on my first-hand experience with the processes as described, I believe the analyst has no idea what he's talking about. All he can see is the up-front cost and not the ROI, as they put it.

[d3fcon]

Originally Posted by BryanHarig

Do you think they would throw that out? Why?

Aluminum has a very low melting point, all scraps could be collected and melted into new blocks to use again at a very low cost in energy.

Low cost I take it you don't work in fabrication then. I thought the aluminium was to make them greener.... Who comes up with these rumours half of them are completly idiotic... And the fanboys buy into it.... LOL

[elmateo487]

Originally Posted by MacRumors

[url="http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2008/tc2008106_898999.htm"]He reports that the process described by 9to5mac as applied to a notebook-sized device would be much more expensive than traditional manufacturing and feels it's "unlikely that it will literally be a hollowed out block of aluminum".

Article Link

Originally Posted by 15 noveltybread

Hollowing out a block of aluminum?

K buddy. Thats why they said. it is unlikely that it will literally be a hollowed out block of aluminum. To the "rumorists" themselves, that didn't even make sense!

(p.s. i know thats not a real word. Haha)

[mikespit1]

Every hour that goes by without confirmation of a press invite for the 14th, I die a little inside =(

[Breegy]

Originally Posted by mikespit1

Every hour that goes by without confirmation of a press invite for the 14th, I die a little inside =(

You might want a friend ready to dial 911 when Oct 14th gets here and there are no updates. Edit: IF there are no updates.

[Ennoea]

Originally Posted by mikespit1

Every hour that goes by without confirmation of a press invite for the 14th, I die a little inside =(

I feel your pain. But the wait is hopefully over soon. Everyone needs to chill, and just wait and see. Who cares about production processes or aluminum blocks or budgets or quater profits? I just finally want to see and decide to buy the d*** thing, or not, if it's coming!

[Ping Guo]

here?

[mortlar]

Wonder what will happen if october 14th comes and there´s no fancy new manufactoring process? Everybody expects it now, and that could really hurt Apple.

That´s the danger of not dismissing rumors. "Let´s rock" went badly because everybody had super high hopes. It was great, but everybody complained because they were hoping for a revolution.

[137489]

ok, I do not know much about manufacturing processes (been a computer person all my life in the medical industry). If apple, being innovative as they are, and always want to be different and stand out - I can see this as the way to go.

Stamp process - change your design and you must come up with new stamp cast that the stamp will pound into the metal.

Laser/Water - Use software to reprogram the cutting lasers (ie instant change, no designing a cast and then make the cast to put on the stamper).

Stamp - have the problem with machinery applying uneven pressure, product slides, etc thus warped or unsable product that has to be remelted.

Laser/Water - precise cuts virtual errorless.

Stamp - Noisy machinery that OSHA would have to regulate.

Laster/Water - noise not a facture, but do need a way to contain the fumes from burning aluminum

[kjs862]

Any mockups?

[VernKlukas]

Originally Posted by shervieux

ok, I do not know much about manufacturing processes (been a computer person all my life in the medical industry). If apple, being innovative as they are, and always want to be different and stand out - I can see this as the way to go.

Stamp process - change your design and you must come up with new stamp cast that the stamp will pound into the metal.

Laser/Water - Use software to reprogram the cutting lasers (ie instant change, no designing a cast and then make the cast to put on the stamper).

Stamp - have the problem with machinery applying uneven pressure, product slides, etc thus warped or unsable product that has to be remelted.

Laser/Water - precise cuts virtual errorless.

Stamp - Noisy machinery that OSHA would have to regulate.

Laster/Water - noise not a facture, but do need a way to contain the fumes from burning aluminum

Actually, water jet cutting is extremely noisy, 100 db+. It is also not really a precision process (relatively speaking, it is precise enough for most purposes) because the jet spreads over distance and also tends to wobble and pulsate a bit. Also, a cutting agent is needed, so an abrasive is added to the jet. This means that the waste metal is mixed with the abrasive in the bottom of the tank, making recovery more complex than just sweeping up the shavings.

Yours
Vern

[flottenheimer]

What puzzles me about the rumor is that Apple has been able to avoid anyone from picking up, that they have built a large scale production facility.

Apple does it Area 51 style... Hmmmm. Where is it located?

[Vulpinemac]

Originally Posted by flottenheimer

What puzzles me about the rumor is that Apple has been able to avoid anyone from picking up, that they have built a large scale production facility.

Apple does it Area 51 style... Hmmmm. Where is it located?

Well, MacRumors themselves commented on the fact that Apple purchased an HP assembly plant only a mile from the Apple campus not all that long ago. It wouldn't be all that difficult to convert it to a manufacturing and assembly plant, would it?

[rychencop]

Originally Posted by 15 noveltybread

I can't help but keep going back to thought of all the wasted material this process would produce. Hollowing out a block of aluminum? There has got to be 1 to 1 1/2 more cases worth in aluminum being dug out of that chunk that would need melted back down and cast into another block.

I don't know this rumor never made much sense to me.

no waste in a process like that. all the aluminum shavings would be recycled and used to create another block or "brick."

[macaco74]

Originally Posted by 15 noveltybread

I can't help but keep going back to thought of all the wasted material this process would produce. Hollowing out a block of aluminum? There has got to be 1 to 1 1/2 more cases worth in aluminum being dug out of that chunk that would need melted back down and cast into another block.

I don't know this rumor never made much sense to me.

+1 - I was thinking the same thing

[137489]

Hey, my brain just kicked in and had a thought (no jokes please, but I know that is asking for a lot on this site. ...)

Hollow piece of aluminum, one piece, no screws.... remember the slide in tablet/dock patent



that resulted in these mockup?





oh boy oh boy oh boy

think about it. 1 piece of aluminum, nothing to insert but glass/lcd and few connectors. Macworld 2009? all our wishes come true?

I could really see apple discontinuing the imac, beefing up the laptop line or come out with a beefy tablet. No more having to worry about syncing data. Your portable (notebook/tablet) provides the power, then you just slide it out and take everything with you. gives you the notebook/desktop all in one. solves everyone's wishes of:

1. tablet with full keyboard/mouse option for when not on the go.
2. eliminate the opticle, but have it as a USB for those who still want/need it.
3. a real dock like people have been asking for


I see rumors starting to come together