10.6 compatible eSATA card for '09 Pro

[Transporteur]

So. Got time for finishing this now.

Unfortunately Acronis didn't work as I can't write to my other drives while using the bootcamp drive. Only reading is supported, I guess.
The Windows partition has some faults anyway, so re-installing is no big deal.

Right now I'm trying to install windows.
The windows drive is the only one that is connected at the moment.
After hitting the c button, controller and drive show up and the windows installation started as usual. After formatting and copying some data, windows reboots.
The system starts and I get to the grey screen. That's it. Even when pressing the option key, no drive is shown. It seems as if the computer does not recognize that there is another controller with a drive attached.

 

[nanofrog]

So. Got time for finishing this now.

Unfortunately Acronis didn't work as I can't write to my other drives while using the bootcamp drive. Only reading is supported, I guess.
The Windows partition has some faults anyway, so re-installing is no big deal.

Right now I'm trying to install windows.
The windows drive is the only one that is connected at the moment.
After hitting the c button, controller and drive show up and the windows installation started as usual. After formatting and copying some data, windows reboots.
The system starts and I get to the grey screen. That's it. Even when pressing the option key, no drive is shown. It seems as if the computer does not recognize that there is another controller with a drive attached.

It won't be able to work in a BC configuration, as it has Apple's GUID partition scheme in front. Acronis can't deal with it, as Apple's GUID /= Windows GUID scheme.

To use Acronis, Windows would need it's own drive (if it is separate, do NOT run BC's partition tool, just the driver installation setup.exe on the disk).

If you want to use BC's partition tool, Winclone will work as I understand it (at least it does on a separate drive, but BC partition was run first for this purpose). gugucom can offer more on this area than I can (he's the one who figured out how to do it), so if you wish to go that route, try a search, or PM if you need more specifics, as I don't recall for sure if there's a complete How To in his posts (IIRC, it involved getting AHCI active for Windows for it's benefits, which was the hard part, not being able to run Winclone).

It would default to legacy mode, which works, but cuts down on throughputs for some drives (gugucom is running an SSD, so the AHCI was needed). Winclone would work in AHCI or Legacy, so long as BC partitioning was done to the drive first. It just needs Apple's GUID partition scheme.

That, or you're using the wrong file systems. Acronis can NOT deal with Apple's file system. It can however write to NTFS, FAT32, ext3, ext4, and ZFS. It's in the specs somewhere. But HFS or HFS+ = NO.

 

[Transporteur]

The drive is already formatted, so Acronis is out of interest (for now ).

So let me get this straight, to install Windows properly on that drive it requires the Apple partition scheme, right?

Right now it shows up in OS X and has already some data on it from the installation, I just can't boot it as it does not show up during the startup of the computer.
I did not use BC or something like that. Just started the computer from the Win CD and installed it on the drive attached to the SIL3132, which btw. has a SIL3132CNU on it.

 

[nanofrog]

The drive is already formatted, so Acronis is out of interest (for now ).

So let me get this straight, to install Windows properly on that drive it requires the Apple partition scheme, right?

Right now it shows up in OS X and has already some data on it from the installation, I just can't boot it as it does not show up during the startup of the computer.
I did not use BC or something like that. Just started the computer from the Win CD and installed it on the drive attached to the SIL3132, which btw. has a SIL3132CNU on it.

I'm getting a tad confused with what's going on.

Acronis CANNOT deal with Apple's GUID scheme. Dropping the Windows installation drive into the optical drive, and selecting a separate drive is the method required. Format to NTFS, and complete the installation. Assuming this is what was done, Acronis can read and write to that drive, or any other NTFS drive. It's capable of doing that with ext3, ext4, FAT32, and ZFS as well IIRC. It CANNOT handle Apple's file systems either, so HSF or HSF+ is not supported. OS X would have to use something else. So you'll need separate drives as backup targets as well (one for Windows, one for OS X, though partitioning a drive and using NTFS and HSF/+ formatting on one pairtition respectively should work), given the lack of HSF/+ filesystem compatibility with Acronis.

gugucom wanted on bit of software to clone both Windows and OS X, and Winclone can do that, so long as the BC partition tool is used first, even on a separate drive for Windows, as it does reqiure Apple's GUID scheme to work with Windows.

 

[Transporteur]

I'm getting a tad confused with what's going on.

I see and I'm really sorry for that!

Let me try to explain it again.
I DON'T want to clone the drive (any more). It is formatted, hence nothing important on it.
Let's presume I bought a new hard drive and want to install Windows on it.

The hard drive is connected to the SIL3132 controller and will be used solely for Windows.
The question now is how to install Windows on it.
You said I can't use the BC assistant, because the SIL can't boot EFI, is that correct?
So I have to install Windows the way like with a normal PC.
That is exactly what I tried.

I inserted the Win DVD, booted from it using the 'c' key, installed the SIL drivers, selected the drive, formatted it and Windows started to do some things (copy stuff or whatever, doesn't matter).
Like always when installing Windows, the system reboots to now start the system from the drive and not from the DVD any more.
And this is where I'm stuck at the moment.
My computer can't find the hard drive, hence it can't proceed to finish the Windows installation.

Again, I didn't use BootCamp and the drive is attached to the SIL controller. No other drives were involved in this procedure.

 

[nanofrog]

I DON'T want to clone the drive (any more). It is formatted, hence nothing important on it.
Let's presume I bought a new hard drive and want to install Windows on it.

Not a problem.

The hard drive is connected to the SIL3132 controller and will be used solely for Windows.

The question now is how to install Windows on it.
You said I can't use the BC assistant, because the SIL can't boot EFI, is that correct?

It seems you're a bit confused too.

The SIL3132 cards can't boot in EFI because they have BIOS based firmware. They can operate under OS X with drivers, but not boot. They should however, boot a Windows disk. (But read on, as there may be something specific causing your problem).

The Highpoint eSATA card for Mac is the ONLY EFI bootable eSATA card on the planet right now (it works in either EFI32 or EFI64 systems). But it can't work with Windows, as there's no drivers. I even checked the download section to see if they were available. Nothing but Mac drivers and EFI firmware for it.

So I have to install Windows the way like with a normal PC.

Yes, in general, this is what you'd need to do, if you didn't want to be able to run Winclone with it.

But here's the thing: I'm under the impression you've a RAID setup on the logic board for OS X (not a boot volume, but it's there). If this is incorrect, please let me know.

The reason this is important, is that gugucom ran into a similar problem. He originally wanted to have an SSD stripe set on the logic board (OS X's Disk Util used to set it up), and another SSD stripe set for Windows. That didn't work on the logic board AT ALL.

So then he went and got an ARC-1210 4 port SATA RAID card on my recommendation (SSD's in the empty optical bay). That didn't work either, when it should have. Apparently, the firmware in the '09's is borked. Another area it rips users...

But there was a solution in this case. He flashed the RAID card with the EFI firmware, and put the OS X boot array on that instead, and the Windows drive (single SSD IIRC), on the logic board, and that worked. By doing this, it bypassed Apple's EFI firmware on the logic board for the OS X RAID, which allowed Windows to use the logic board.

It's not possible to have both OS X and Windows boot arrays on one RAID card, as they require different firmware, and the card can only contain one. This is the same for any RAID card manufacturer that has EFI firmware for Macs, not just Areca. ATTO and Highpoint would have been the same.

I inserted the Win DVD, booted from it using the 'c' key, installed the SIL drivers, selected the drive, formatted it and Windows started to do some things (copy stuff or whatever, doesn't matter).
Like always when installing Windows, the system reboots to now start the system from the drive and not from the DVD any more.
And this is where I'm stuck at the moment.
My computer can't find the hard drive, hence it can't proceed to finish the Windows installation.

Again, I didn't use BootCamp and the drive is attached to the SIL controller. No other drives were involved in this procedure.

Assuming you've a RAID under OS X, even if not used as a boot location, it's interfering with the card when you try to boot Windows I think, given what happened with gugucom.

If not (no RAID under OS X), then it's something else. Either something went wrong (i.e. wrong drivers for Windows), or it may not work (i.e. bad drivers).

I'm not quite sure, so please get back to me on the OS X RAID question (i.e software based via Disk Utility).

 

[Transporteur]

First of all thank you for all you replies. I really appreciate your effort!

I do indeed have a RAID set (two to be more specific) on the logic board (software build of course). That's the reason I need a dedicated drive for Windows in the optical bay for. All sleds are occupied with storage drives.

However, I disconnected all drives during the Win install process, apart from the Windows drive, of course.

Assuming you've a RAID under OS X, even if not used as a boot location, it's interfering with the card when you try to boot Windows I think, given what happened with gugucom.

If not (no RAID under OS X), then it's something else. Either something went wrong (i.e. wrong drivers for Windows), or it may not work (i.e. bad drivers).

I understand it could be a driver problem. The drivers I had to install during the Windows installation process were the Digitus (manufacturer of the card) drivers, the original SIL drivers did not work.

Assuming that my PC and the card are not compatible (in booting means, as the drives work with OS X), the easiest solution I can think of is to re-arrange my optical bay and connect the Windows drive to one of the ODD SATA ports and the DVD to the SIL card.
The second ODD port is already occupied with my OS X boot drive.
I'll give it a try.

Edit:
No luck for me. CD does not work, it doesn't even open up.
I hate his SIL card.

 

[nanofrog]

First of all thank you for all you replies. I really appreciate your effort!

I do indeed have a RAID set (two to be more specific) on the logic board (software build of course). That's the reason I need a dedicated drive for Windows in the optical bay for. All sleds are occupied with storage drives.

However, I disconnected all drives during the Win install process, apart from the Windows drive, of course.

Is there anything using the 2nd SATA OPTICAL port?
You could give that a try, as it's free.

What I think is going on though, is the ICH is the ICH10R variant (R = RAID) rather than the non RAID variant (ICH10). Disk Util is using the firmware to create the sets (accessible in BIOS based systems before you even launch an OS), but the MP's don't allow users direct access. So when these RAID functions are engaged, it takes hold of at least the 4 port grouping used for the HDD bays (maybe the 2 port grouping for the optical drives as well). Ulitmately, resulting in the issues both you and gugucom have run into: It prevents the use of a Windows drive on the logic board when OS X's RAID functions have been enabled due to how it works.

If this is correct, the only solution I know that will work, is to get a proper RAID card, and shift the OS X RAID sets to that. (It must be EFI boot capable if you wish to have a boot partition/array on it). Otherwise, you could get away with one that only has OS X drivers.

I understand it could be a driver problem. The drivers I had to install during the Windows installation process were the Digitus (manufacturer of the card) drivers, the original SIL drivers did not work.

Assuming that my PC and the card are not compatible (in booting means, as the drives work with OS X), the easiest solution I can think of is to re-arrange my optical bay and connect the Windows drive to one of the ODD SATA ports and the DVD to the SIL card.
The second ODD port is already occupied with my OS X boot drive.
I'll give it a try.

Edit:
No luck for me. CD does not work, it doesn't even open up.
I hate his SIL card.

Assuming it is only the drivers (I hope so), you might want to try the Sonnet drivers for their SIL3132 card, as it's worked for some (not quite the same setup, but it's worth a shot IMO).

 

[Transporteur]

Is there anything using the 2nd SATA OPTICAL port?
You could give that a try, as it's free.

One ODD port is occupied with my OS X SSD.

Ulitmately, resulting in the issues both you and gugucom have run into: It prevents the use of a Windows drive on the logic board when OS X's RAID functions have been enabled due to how it works.

I don't think that the logic board RAID has anything to do with this, since the following configuration works flawlessly;

ODD 1: OS X SSD
ODD 2: Windows Boot
Sled 1-4: OS X RAID

As soon as the Windows disc is connected to the Mac Pros own SATA ports, everything works straight away.
Hard drives connected to the SIL work fine on OS X, DVD drives don't.
Booting from the SIL doesn't work either.

If this is correct, the only solution I know that will work, is to get a proper RAID card, and shift the OS X RAID sets to that. (It must be EFI boot capable if you wish to have a boot partition/array on it). Otherwise, you could get away with one that only has OS X drivers.

That could well be a solution, a pretty expensive one though.
Not an option for me, as I solely use that Windows drive for gaming once in a month. All my work that requires Windows is done on virtual machines.

Assuming it is only the drivers (I hope so), you might want to try the Sonnet drivers for their SIL3132 card, as it's worked for some (not quite the same setup, but it's worth a shot IMO).

I've got the Sonnet drivers installed I guess it was me who figured out that these are working. ).

The solution would either be making the card boot Windows, or making it work with the Apple CD drive on OS X (don't need that drive on Windows).
I've read a thread about making the SIL3132 work with optical drives (http://club.myce.com/f105/sh-s203b-sil3132-boot-problems-222951/), and they say that after changing the BIOS it may work.

Sounds easy, BUT 'This download includes UPDFLASH. The UPDFLASH utility is intended for general end-users who just want to update their add-in card BIOS to the latest version. This utility is for PC add-in cards only. Do NOT use this utility for Macintosh add-in cards' [Silicon Image BIOS download].
Plus an update would require a floppy drive, which I don't have at the moment.

 

[nanofrog]

I don't think that the logic board RAID has anything to do with this, since the following configuration works flawlessly;

ODD 1: OS X SSD
ODD 2: Windows Boot
Sled 1-4: OS X RAID

As soon as the Windows disc is connected to the Mac Pros own SATA ports, everything works straight away.
Hard drives connected to the SIL work fine on OS X, DVD drives don't.
Booting from the SIL doesn't work either.

I don't see it as a board issue, but firmware, which isn't the same to me. The same exact board running BIOS would be fine, so I tend to view boards as hardware, even though the firmware is on it via programmable chip (it can be updated, the actual chips, and other physical components can't).

Obviously, when the Windows drive is attached though, it isn't doing so. Now I do realize it may be driver only, and do think it's certianly worth persuing. But what I'm seeing/you're describing is lending me to think it is the firmware, and is supported by all the issues others are having with eSATA cards in the '09 MP's.

BIOS emulation is supposed to allow that card to boot under Windows, and should work. So many different cards, yet none work properly. Either the drivers are extremely borked from every single provider, or the firmware is the culprit. That's the primary reason I'm thinking firmware. Better odds.

Think of it this way. You make a RAID set/s via Disk Util. That changes settings in the firmware. Those carry over to any other OS installation on the system.

From what you're telling me, the ODD_SATA ports are in fact separated as I'd expected (and hoped was truly correct). But for some reason, when the ICH's settings have been adjusted from AHCI (default value in the firmware for OS X, but not Windows) on the HDD bays (4 port group), it's causing problems it seems. I guess another thing to attempt, is while you have the Windows disk on the logic board, make sure AHCI mode is engaged.

Oddly enough, AHCI mode is capable of 0/1 RAID functions, but must be done via software. RAID allows you to get in from the firmware side (if access is there), and create an array before installing an OS to it. It also allows for a level 5, assuming enough drives are connected (Apple doesn't allow for a level 5, which is actually a good thing with software RAID, given the write hole issue).

That could well be a solution, a pretty expensive one though.
Not an option for me, as I solely use that Windows drive for gaming once in a month. All my work that requires Windows is done on virtual machines.

Definitely not cheap.

I've got the Sonnet drivers installed I guess it was me who figured out that these are working. ).

Keep in mind, there's other having all kinds of strange issues with eSATA on the '09's. Different cards won't necessarily work with the same set of drivers, and at this point, are rotating between what's available until they find one that does. It sucks.

Given the issues cover more than one make/model, it seems that the issues are more wide spread, which likely means a fundamental problem in the system (i.e. firmware, as it causes issues with multiple OS's).

The solution would either be making the card boot Windows, or making it work with the Apple CD drive on OS X (don't need that drive on Windows).
I've read a thread about making the SIL3132 work with optical drives (http://club.myce.com/f105/sh-s203b-sil3132-boot-problems-222951/), and they say that after changing the BIOS it may work.

Sounds easy, BUT 'This download includes UPDFLASH. The UPDFLASH utility is intended for general end-users who just want to update their add-in card BIOS to the latest version. This utility is for PC add-in cards only. Do NOT use this utility for Macintosh add-in cards' [Silicon Image BIOS download].
Plus an update would require a floppy drive, which I don't have at the moment.

I've found a USB floppy drive invaluable with systems that lack an FDD port. But there may be another way. Ultimate Bood CD (you may need to add UPDFLASH to the disk). Worth a look anyway.

EDIT:
Couple of quick questions:
1. I was under the impression you needed the eSATA card for a PM enclosure, but not sure if it's for OS X, Windows, or both. Could you clarify?
2. Would you consider using an external enclosure for the optical drive that has multiple interfaces (i.e. USB and eSATA), as you can at least have it work if eSATA isn't a possibility for awhile?
(Particularly if the eSATA card otherwise would only be needed for OS X use with the PM enclosure). Not the cleanest way to solve your issues, but inexpensive and fairly easy to do for now.

 

[Transporteur]

Think of it this way. You make a RAID set/s via Disk Util. That changes settings in the firmware. Those carry over to any other OS installation on the system.

I didn't know that, but yes, that makes sense.

From what you're telling me, the ODD_SATA ports are in fact separated as I'd expected (and hoped was truly correct). But for some reason, when the ICH's settings have been adjusted from AHCI (default value in the firmware for OS X, but not Windows) on the HDD bays (4 port group), it's causing problems it seems. I guess another thing to attempt, is while you have the Windows disk on the logic board, make sure AHCI mode is engaged.

What do you mean with separated? One ODD SATA port is used for the optical drive the other one for my OS X boot disc (single disc, no RAID).
I'm willing to connect the optical drive to the SIL card, which would let me access the spare ODD SATA port for the Windows drive. This would however require the SIL card to recognise the optical drive under OS X.

Honestly I've got no idea what the AHCI mode is, what it does and how I apply it to the Windows drive. But before you repeat yourself a thousand times in this forum I'm gonna read gugucoms threads to get an impression. Just give me a little bit of time for that. I'm a little stuffed with work today.

I've found a USB floppy drive invaluable with systems that lack an FDD port. But there may be another way. Ultimate Bood CD (you may need to add UPDFLASH to the disk). Worth a look anyway.

In case the BIOS flash would work (either via floppy or CD), in which ways does it affect my computer? The SIL support site explicitly says that it does not work for Macintosh computers.
However, I've got one of these USB floppy drives at home, but sending it to my place would take a few days. So I'm going to check the CD first in case I attempt this procedure.

Keep in mind, there's other having all kinds of strange issues with eSATA on the '09's. Different cards won't necessarily work with the same set of drivers, and at this point, are rotating between what's available until they find one that does. It sucks.

Oh yes it does. And it's really starting to piss me off! Would have thrown the card away the first day if you weren't around here.

1. I was under the impression you needed the eSATA card for a PM enclosure, but not sure if it's for OS X, Windows, or both. Could you clarify?
2. Would you consider using an external enclosure for the optical drive that has multiple interfaces (i.e. USB and eSATA), as you can at least have it work if eSATA isn't a possibility for awhile?
(Particularly if the eSATA card otherwise would only be needed for OS X use with the PM enclosure). Not the cleanest way to solve your issues, but inexpensive and fairly easy to do for now.

1. Initially the eSATA card was supposed to run my external backup disc, but after I realised (stupid me) that the card is not capable of booting OS X (which may be quite useful for restoring backups via CCC), it now should only extend the 6 internal SATA ports to 8.

2. I'm not a friend of much external enclosures (got 3 three already), but I could get rid of the optical drive till the SIL card works properly.

 

[nanofrog]

What do you mean with separated? One ODD SATA port is used for the optical drive the other one for my OS X boot disc (single disc, no RAID).

It has to do with how the ICH was designed by Intel (has nothing to do with Apple). It has 6 ports, in a 4 + 2 groupings. The set of 4 are used for the HDD bays, and the 2 port group are used for the ODD_SATA ports.

I'm willing to connect the optical drive to the SIL card, which would let me access the spare ODD SATA port for the Windows drive. This would however require the SIL card to recognise the optical drive under OS X.

The problem withh attaching the optical drive to the SIL3132 card, is it won't boot OS X if you ever need to run the OS X Install disk, as it can't boot in an EFI environment.

For that, you'd need Highpoint's eSATA for Mac card ($229 at OWC). That's why I suggested a small (single bay 5.25" external) enclosure that has multiple interfaces on it. USB and FW would be bootable for you, and if it has eSATA, could be used with that interface some time later when you have an EFI boot capable eSATA card (or if you ever do). But it's nice to have. FW + USB + eSATA costs more given the FW chip, so I suggest a USB + eSATA (NO FW) to keep the cost lower.

Honestly I've got no idea what the AHCI mode is, what it does and how I apply it to the Windows drive. But before you repeat yourself a thousand times in this forum I'm gonna read gugucoms threads to get an impression. Just give me a little bit of time for that. I'm a little stuffed with work today.

AHCI allows for better throughputs and features, though not all of it can be used in a Mac. It can under Windows, if it's supported. I.e. Hot Swapping is NOT supported under OS X. It is under Windows. But you CANNOT do a Hot Plug (swap drives internally in the MP while the power is on), as the system needs an Inrush Current Limiter (physical electronic circuit) to prevent damage to the PSU. Apple never equiped the system with it.

Separate multi-drive enclosures with that circuit can. Singles are easy. Turn the enclosure OFF.

In case the BIOS flash would work (either via floppy or CD), in which ways does it affect my computer? The SIL support site explicitly says that it does not work for Macintosh computers.
However, I've got one of these USB floppy drives at home, but sending it to my place would take a few days. So I'm going to check the CD first in case I attempt this procedure.

It was a general statement. Sorry it wasn't clear. That firmware update won't help OS X, but it might help for Windows. Not sure there, as I've not checked that out.

1. Initially the eSATA card was supposed to run my external backup disc, but after I realised (stupid me) that the card is not capable of booting OS X (which may be quite useful for restoring backups via CCC), it now should only extend the 6 internal SATA ports to 8.

I'm getting the impression the eSATA for Mac by Highpoint is the card you really need, as it's the ONLY bootable eSATA card in existence for a Mac under OS X. But it's not cheap at $229USD from OWC (linked in previous post).

2. I'm not a friend of much external enclosures (got 3 three already), but I could get rid of the optical drive till the SIL card works properly.

Up to you, but I'm getting the impression that you need boot capablility for OS X, which the SIL3132 card CANNOT, nor ever will be able to do.

 

[Transporteur]

The problem withh attaching the optical drive to the SIL3132 card, is it won't boot OS X if you ever need to run the OS X Install disk, as it can't boot in an EFI environment.

Very good argument! Haven't thought about that.
Ok, we can preclude that option then.

That firmware update won't help OS X, but it might help for Windows. Not sure there, as I've not checked that out.

The firmware update just affects the cards compatibility with optical drives. Since that is not an option any more, we can forget about that, too.

I'm getting the impression the eSATA for Mac by Highpoint is the card you really need, as it's the ONLY bootable eSATA card in existence for a Mac under OS X. But it's not cheap at $229USD from OWC (linked in previous post).

Up to you, but I'm getting the impression that you need boot capablility for OS X, which the SIL3132 card CANNOT, nor ever will be able to do.

Boot capability for OS X with eSATA would be definitely nice, but the price is quite high, plus a card like the Highpoint eSATA still does not offer additional SATA ports, which I desperately need.


You see, I haven't given up on the SIL card. Yet.
There must be a way to get this card boot Windows in a Macintosh.

If there is really absolutely no way to get it booting, couldn't I just buy an USB or FW enclosure (another external ) for my Windows drive? Can a Mac boot Windows from them?
If not, then yes, I'm willing to buy an external enclosure for the optical drive, but that's really the last option.

 

[nanofrog]

The firmware update just affects the cards compatibility with optical drives. Since that is not an option any more, we can forget about that, too.

It could still be useful though, if you get the card working for Windows.

Boot capability for OS X with eSATA would be definitely nice, but the price is quite high, plus a card like the Highpoint eSATA still does not offer additional SATA ports, which I desperately need.

There's not much if any, other cards that offer SATA rather than eSATA only.

You see, I haven't given up on the SIL card. Yet.
There must be a way to get this card boot Windows in a Macintosh.

There is. You have to get rid of the OS X software RAID, and not just remove the drives as you tried before. It has to be removed under Disk Utility (sets the firmware back to Legacy mode).

It's the RAID causing the problems, given what gugucom and I discovered when dealing with this issue before (Windows was a bit more complicated in that case, as it was a RAID as well). In the end, it required a proper RAID card used for the OS X set (the model used can boot OS X in MP's <once flashed with EFI bootable firmware>). But the basic issue is the same.

Try it (remove OS X RAID in Disk Util), and see what happens. Once out, you can run separate drives for OS X and Windows, and the SIL3132 eSATA card will work, including boot under Windows.

If there is really absolutely no way to get it booting, couldn't I just buy an USB or FW enclosure (another external ) for my Windows drive? Can a Mac boot Windows from them?

Yes, you could do that as well, if that's all you need for Windows.

If not, then yes, I'm willing to buy an external enclosure for the optical drive, but that's really the last option.

That may not be needed, if you can't remove the RAID sets out of Disk Utility. Otherwise, you'd need a RAID card that can boot OS X, and the ARC-1210 uses SATA ports, so it works with drives installed in the empty optical bay. Just get power to them, and use standard SATA cables to the drives. I can help you with this, if you choose that option.

If you want it to run with the HDD bays, it gets a bit more expensive, as you need a different card (~$60USD more; either ARC-1212, which is a SAS model, and they're picky with SATA drives <must be enterprise to work, though there's a trick with WD drives only>, or Highpoint 3510, which may not boot - others in the family will, but the port type is wrong), and an adapter to work in the '09's, which adds another $165USD. So $225USD more than the ARC-1210. Simply put, it can get confusing. So be forwarned.

 

[Transporteur]

Try it (remove OS X RAID in Disk Util), and see what happens. Once out, you can run separate drives for OS X and Windows, and the SIL3132 eSATA card will work, including boot under Windows.

But I can never again set up a software RAID using the drive sleds, since this would change the firmware settings again, right?
That's definitely not an option then.

Simply put, it can get confusing. So be forwarned.

I'm already totally confused! It's really pathetic with these Mac boxes.

But as often, this is simply a question of money and to be honest with you, 250-300 (Euro or Pound, doesn't matter) for a controller that enables me to boot my Windows (gaming) partition is a little bit heavy.
In case that an external USB/FW enclosure is able to boot Windows (via bootcamp I guess), that would definitely do the job. As I said, this partition is, if all, used once in a month for a few hours.
I'll give it a try on Wednesday and hope that it will finally work.

 

[nanofrog]

But I can never again set up a software RAID using the drive sleds, since this would change the firmware settings again, right?
That's definitely not an option then.

I figured it wasn't, but had to mention it, as it would get the SIL3132 card working under Windows.

The only way to have your cake and eat it too, is to go with a proper OS X bootable RAID card. It's doable, but it's not inexpensive, and the details will depend on where you can locate the drives, drive count on the card,...

For example, if you can place all the intended RAID drives in the optical bays (DIY is possible, and inexpensive; a DOA optical drive will suffice beautifully here by caniballizing the metal plates), then you can use a $300USD card that will do the job quite well (ARC-1210). This is by far the least expensive way to go.

But if you want to use the HDD bays, then you need a more expensive card (has an ML designation/connector <Multi Lane connector> = SFF-8087 connector), and an adapter to make it work (available from MaxConnect only). Tack on say an additional $220USD to do that. In some cases, an additional adapter (cable extension that is only availabe at MaxConnect as well, which adds another $90USD for shorter cards).

Example cards for the above:
Highpoint 35xx series (3510 works best, but on the Mac site, they don't show EFI firmware for it, yet they do for the 3522 <external ports>). You'd need to call/email to see if they actually can work for booting OS X. They should have written it, as the card is the same, just the port connector is different.

ARC-1212, which is a SAS card. They're picky with SATA drives, and need enterprise models, as the consumer units won't work. They're too unstable and drop out quite often, if you even get it to initialize at all. There is a way around this with WD's consumer drives, but you really do want enterprise units anyway, for the additional sensors they use (data is safer as they help to prevent actual crashes <heads impact the platters>).

There are other cards, but these are the least expensive.

The optical will have to be placed externally if you go with the ARC-1210, but it's worth it IMO, assuming you only will ever need 4* 3.5" drives max. You can opt for 2.5" drives, and fit 8x internally in the optical bays.

But as often, this is simply a question of money and to be honest with you, 250-300 (Euro or Pound, doesn't matter) for a controller that enables me to boot my Windows (gaming) partition is a little bit heavy.

In case that an external USB/FW enclosure is able to boot Windows (via bootcamp I guess), that would definitely do the job. As I said, this partition is, if all, used once in a month for a few hours.
I'll give it a try on Wednesday and hope that it will finally work.

Going external with a single drive is the least expensive way just to get a Windows drive to boot.

The RAID card gives you other options if you need them. Additional speed and/or capacity (more ports than are available on the logic board), and the ability to have redundancy that software RAID cannot provide under OS X (or should, as parity based arrays are too dangerous for software methods, even though some offer it <Fake RAID controllers or other boards using BIOS>).

 

[Transporteur]

The RAID card gives you other options if you need them. Additional speed and/or capacity (more ports than are available on the logic board), and the ability to have redundancy that software RAID cannot provide under OS X (or should, as parity based arrays are too dangerous for software methods, even though some offer it <Fake RAID controllers or other boards using BIOS>).

I see your point and I will probably go that route when I my boot drive get's full. Currently it hosts 4 VM's, all of them growing every day. So a second SSD will definitely be necessary in the next couple of month, which would require a decent controller.

For now I'm fine with software RAID, even though my drives operate pretty close to the ICH10s maximum throughput.

Thank you very much for your support, nanofrog. I will come back to you when it's time to install a proper RAID controller.

 

[seisend]

I didn't read the whole thread but this hasn't been posted yet to answer the eSATA question:

There is a new one coming by newertech and it looks really nice in my opinion.

http://www.newertech.com/products/pcieesata.php

 

[nanofrog]

I see your point and I will probably go that route when I my boot drive get's full. Currently it hosts 4 VM's, all of them growing every day. So a second SSD will definitely be necessary in the next couple of month, which would require a decent controller.

For now I'm fine with software RAID, even though my drives operate pretty close to the ICH10s maximum throughput.

Thank you very much for your support, nanofrog. I will come back to you when it's time to install a proper RAID controller.

NP.

If you're looking to use a couple of SSD's as a boot array (stripe set), then the ARC-1210 is the card to use. Cheap, and easy to cable (including getting power via 3rd party cables/adapters that won't void your warranty).

Any more drives than that, and you'll need a faster card for SSD's IMO.

I didn't read the whole thread but this hasn't been posted yet to answer the eSATA question:

There is a new one coming by newertech and it looks really nice in my opinion.

http://www.newertech.com/products/pcieesata.php

Looks nice, and thanks for the information and link.

Boots Windows (BIOS, but NOT EFI). That could be a problem for some, but if it's less problematic than other offerings, it will be worth the $60USD for many. Hopefully that will be the case.

 

[Transporteur]

One last question for this thread.

Do the drives that are connected to the SIL card affect the ICH10s bandwidth, or are they independent from the chipset?
I'm planning to create a small striped array of two 2.5" drives (~140MB/s throughput) as a shared disc for my VM's, but considering that my current drives have almost 650MB/s (2 x 200MB/s, + Intel SSD) throughput, that array would heavily reduce the ICHs performance.

 

[pprior]

I didn't read the whole thread but this hasn't been posted yet to answer the eSATA question:

There is a new one coming by newertech and it looks really nice in my opinion.

http://www.newertech.com/products/pcieesata.php

I just installed this card. I am having problems in that when time machine is accessing a drive connected to this card it's locking up finder and my machine is unstable.

Will investigate further, but so far not looking so hot.

 

[nanofrog]

Do the drives that are connected to the SIL card affect the ICH10s bandwidth, or are they independent from the chipset?

The band is separate. The ICH's data is run on a different bus than PCIe, and is one of the major advantages of using such card.

 

[Transporteur]

Excellent.
Many thanks!

 

[aibo]

I didn't read the whole thread but this hasn't been posted yet to answer the eSATA question:

There is a new one coming by newertech and it looks really nice in my opinion.

http://www.newertech.com/products/pcieesata.php

I posted it earlier but no one seemed interested. Well, I'm running one right now (received it yesterday). I don't plan to benchmark it or anything but i'm glad to have an eSATA card that works booted in the 64-bit kernel. Driverless, nonetheless.

 

[nanofrog]

I posted it earlier but no one seemed interested. Well, I'm running one right now (received it yesterday). I don't plan to benchmark it or anything but i'm glad to have an eSATA card that works booted in the 64-bit kernel. Driverless, nonetheless.

Could you provide details as to how your drive are setup?

Thanks.