2017 iMac refresh wish list [merged]

[Brookzy]

There will be no new Cinema Display ... they no longer make displays .. the 5k LG is it

This has been widely accepted as fact, but it appears the only source for this claim is Nilay Patel at The Verge who claimed someone from Apple said they were "out of the display business". I've not seen this corroborated, and I'm clinging to any sliver of hope that new Thunderbolt Displays will emerge!

So what has been holding apple back from release a 4K or 5K apple cinema display to go with the iMac?

Any explanation is speculation.

But, looking at the situation, there is no technical reason for it. Indeed the opposite is true - Apple has apparently done the technical legwork for LG in the new UltraFine displays. Well-placed sources are suggesting that anyone who delves into a 5K UltraFine will see a treasure trove of Apple design: it's essentially an Apple display in an LG disguise.

Delivering a seamless 5K resolution over Thunderbolt 3 with DisplayPort 1.2 is actually quite tricky and in the LG UltraFine Apple employs some clever tactics to stream two approximately 4K images and stitch them together to make a 5K display. This is why the UltraFine 5K is the only 5K Thunderbolt 3 display on the market - it's not easy to do. DisplayPort 1.3 supports native, single-stream 5K but hasn't hit the market yet. Hopefully iFixit tears it down so we can see what's going on in there. Apparently the engineers at Apple working on the display thought it would become an Apple Thunderbolt Display, and were surprised to realise their work actually ended up in an LG product.

So, if not for technical reasons, what else could explain it?

First, maybe Apple didn't feel comfortable shipping such a 'hacky' product, but had to have something to offer the market, and hence gave LG the IP. It can reasonably be argued that Apple is somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of using multi-stream displays (i.e., stitching together two 4K streams to make a 5K one, rather than having a native, single 5K stream) because the 5K iMac doesn't have a multi-stream display (and is the only single-single stream 5K display on the market!). The iMac uses proprietary internal connectors and timing controllers to avoid having to use a multi-stream technology. This would have come at some cost and engineering effort. So, if Apple prefers single-stream, they might simply have not wanted to make their own 5K Thunderbolt Display until DisplayPort 1.3 comes out.

Second, business. The Thunderbolt Display would have been a tiny volume product by Apple's standards that probably just wasn't profitable anymore. (Personally I think it should have been kept regardless but that's another debate).

Third, engineering capacity. We know that Apple is a functionally-organised operation (there was probably never a group of people who *just* worked on external displays, for instance), and with R&D spending increasing dramatically, the Mac being neglected, ship dates being missed, and what appears to be a growing number of software and hardware issues, Tim Cook just simply cannot afford to have people spending their valuable time on external displays anymore. It sounds crazy in a company the size of Apple, but it's probably true. The LG UltraFines may have been the best balance between 'spend as little time on it as possible' and 'ship something'.

Again, this is just my personal take on it.

 

[curmudgeonette]

Second, business. The Thunderbolt Display would have been a tiny volume product by Apple's standards that probably just wasn't profitable anymore. (Personally I think it should have been kept regardless but that's another debate).

Apple has a long history of trying to spur third party innovation by canceling, not updating, or spinning out their own secondary products. While there's an Apple branded product in the market place, this can often keep others from trying to compete. In the long run, this hurts the Mac ecosystem.

Think about it: As long as Apple offers Final Cut, would anyone develop a Mac only premium video editor? Nope!

With displays, as long as there was an Apple Cinema/Thunderbolt display, nobody introduced a Mac only display. Now that Apple is out of that market, I'm sure there will be companies that wish to compete with LG with their own Mac specific displays.

 

[Brookzy]

Apple has a long history of trying to spur third party innovation by canceling, not updating, or spinning out their own secondary products.

No examples spring to mind...

With displays, as long as there was an Apple Cinema/Thunderbolt display, nobody introduced a Mac only display. Now that Apple is out of that market, I'm sure there will be companies that wish to compete with LG with their own Mac specific displays.

With the Cinema/Thunderbolt displays there were few dedicated Mac displays because no-one could make a better one than Apple. In its absence it becomes profitable to release an inferior competitor? I can't see how that's good for the ecosystem.

 

[curmudgeonette]

No examples spring to mind...

MacPaint/MacWrite. Only when these were unbundled did multiple competing products get introduced.

MacBASIC got killed when it was in the beta testing stage - Microsoft didn't want Apple branded competition and strong armed Apple.

The whole Claris debacle with apps moving back and forth.

External SCSI hard disks. This was a shocker: While there were other options, only the Apple drives were trustworthy.

Printers and digital cameras. These items were thriving in the PC world. Apple's exit caused manufacturers to include Mac drivers in just about all models.

More recently, photo, audio and video editing apps. They may be getting repositioned to allow competitors onto MacOS.

With the Cinema/Thunderbolt displays there were few dedicated Mac displays because no-one could make a better one than Apple. In its absence it becomes profitable to release an inferior competitor? I can't see how that's good for the ecosystem.

We now have the "inferior" LG product. Perhaps someone else (Samsung?) will move in with a better product trying to lock up the top end of the market now that Apple no longer limits it?

 

[fokmik]

http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake-refresh-coffee-lake-cfl-u-h-s-x/
does this affect the kaby lake imacs?

 

[CWallace]

http://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake-refresh-coffee-lake-cfl-u-h-s-x/
does this affect the kaby lake imacs?

No, as that is a mobile CPU (and I do not believe any Mac laptop uses that class of CPU). iMacs use desktop CPUs.

 

[Ddyracer]

Razer has shown that it is possible to put a desktop GPU into a mobile form with their Razer Blade Pro, why Apple refuses to push the envelope with the iMac GPU is beyond me, there is room and the TDP is low enough to not add too much to the TDP. 250 Watts to the power adaptor, the iMac 27 uses over 200 watts at maxload so it must have over 300 watt power supply.

Not to mention that AMD sucks in speed and no cuda means it will be slower than it's rival in video editing.

Ah well, keep making iPad toyz and removing ports while not offering free adapters at the very least crapple.

 

[fokmik]

Razer blade pro is louder and hotter. Apple always want an overall low compromise product. And they know there are game laptops out there

 

[klatox]

Razer has shown that it is possible to put a desktop GPU into a mobile form with their Razer Blade Pro, why Apple refuses to push the envelope with the iMac GPU is beyond me, there is room and the TDP is low enough to not add too much to the TDP. 250 Watts to the power adaptor, the iMac 27 uses over 200 watts at maxload so it must have over 300 watt power supply.

Not to mention that AMD sucks in speed and no cuda means it will be slower than it's rival in video editing.

Ah well, keep making iPad toyz and removing ports while not offering free adapters at the very least crapple.

I don't think Apple has ever had a history of catering to the gaming crowd unfortunately.

 

[Ddyracer]

Razer blade pro is louder and hotter. Apple always want an overall low compromise product. And they know there are game laptops out there

It's a desktop that sits on a desk, lol who gives a **** about a little more noise in your home or office? Not like your going to a library or school and need uber quiet fans, as for heat, they could always underclock it, and the iMac metal body is a good heatsink anyway.

I don't think Apple has ever had a history of catering to the gaming crowd unfortunately.

This is not just a gaming chip, it is amazing all around for video editing, pushing that 5k display and two other 5k displays, and has more vRAM to boot.

No brainer.

 

[fokmik]

It's a desktop that sits on a desk, lol who gives a **** about a little more noise in your home or office? Not like your going to a library or school and need uber quiet fans, as for heat, they could always underclock it, and the iMac metal body is a good heatsink anyway.



This is not just a gaming chip, it is amazing all around for video editing, pushing that 5k display and two other 5k displays, and has more vRAM to boot.

No brainer.

sry but i love to have quality products, louder or hotter is not my thing, gave me bad experience since i dont game, and blade pro its a bigger heavier laptop..so that will be used more like a desktop than a mobile product

 

[Icaras]

It's a desktop that sits on a desk, lol who gives a **** about a little more noise in your home or office? Not like your going to a library or school and need uber quiet fans, as for heat, they could always underclock it, and the iMac metal body is a good heatsink anyway.

sry but i love to have quality products, louder or hotter is not my thing, gave me bad experience since i dont game, and blade pro its a bigger heavier laptop..so that will be used more like a desktop than a mobile product

Same here, although I do game heavily, I still appreciate how much quieter my iMac runs versus a MacBook Pro. Not to mention I'm done with the days where my Power Mac from before would turn my room into a sauna. Yea, I think I'll take the more efficient iMac any day.

 

[Appleaker]

I would too, but the rumours are more along the lines of a refresh..... what is your opinion on the keyboard having black keys like the MacBooks? I have always wondered why the magic keyboard is white as it does not sit well with any of the other hardware really. It all seems a little odd to me to have the differences in the keyboards.

One reason why they chose white keys on the desktop keyboard because it makes them easier to see in low light conditions. This is done because a backlight can't be implemented due to power constraints. Over time, white has also become standard for the Mac peripherals (it looks cleaner and differentiates itself from PCs) but, as it has done before, i'm sure that can change that. That will definitely make sense if they add a Touch Bar and possibly backlighting.
[doublepost=1483544758][/doublepost]

I know the recent rumors indiciated to a modest refresh but I want to believe the next iMac will be bigger than we imagined. For one, Apple completely skipped out on not just the iMac, but the entire desktop line for the entire calendar year, which is completely unprecedented and which they've never done in history. I'd like to believe anyway, like the long and delayed MacBook Pro redesign, that a redesign iMac will follow suit, because of the same pent up demand and delay in releasing it. But I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment

As for the keyboard, I think many people have been wanting a backlit wireless keyboard for some time now (myself included). I guess if Apple wanted to make a big splash with a wireless Touchbar, then it would be great to see the Magic Keyboard 3 get that plus backlit keys, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

And I actually personally prefer the white keys, but then I also want a matching white bezel on the iMac too. So that said, I get the desire from people to have black keys to better match the black bezel as well as the MacBook counterparts. But it never made sense to me anyway. Why Apple chooses to make gold and rose gold finishes with white bezel fronts for its iOS devices while not doing the same for the MacBook.

Anyway, if Apple were to offer a space gray iMac with matching space gray keyboard and black keys, I think a lot of people would be happy. Backlit keys would be icing on the cake.

The iMac is due a redesign and now seems like the time it will happen, so I will actually be surprised if it doesn't happen. Although even if it doesn't, it will be quite a significant refresh bringing Thunderbolt 3, a better display, faster flash storage, faster RAM, and significant GPU improvements with Polaris/Vega (and the ability to have a better eGPU in the future)

If they want to implement a Touch Bar, black keys would be the way to go and therefore a space gray option, so it makes sense for all peripherals to have a space gray model. A Touch Bar keyboard is essential to keep developers interested in utilising it, and it would make the keyboard truly live up to its name.
[doublepost=1483544971][/doublepost]

This has been widely accepted as fact, but it appears the only source for this claim is Nilay Patel at The Verge who claimed someone from Apple said they were "out of the display business". I've not seen this corroborated, and I'm clinging to any sliver of hope that new Thunderbolt Displays will emerge!


Any explanation is speculation.

But, looking at the situation, there is no technical reason for it. Indeed the opposite is true - Apple has apparently done the technical legwork for LG in the new UltraFine displays. Well-placed sources are suggesting that anyone who delves into a 5K UltraFine will see a treasure trove of Apple design: it's essentially an Apple display in an LG disguise.

Delivering a seamless 5K resolution over Thunderbolt 3 with DisplayPort 1.2 is actually quite tricky and in the LG UltraFine Apple employs some clever tactics to stream two approximately 4K images and stitch them together to make a 5K display. This is why the UltraFine 5K is the only 5K Thunderbolt 3 display on the market - it's not easy to do. DisplayPort 1.3 supports native, single-stream 5K but hasn't hit the market yet. Hopefully iFixit tears it down so we can see what's going on in there. Apparently the engineers at Apple working on the display thought it would become an Apple Thunderbolt Display, and were surprised to realise their work actually ended up in an LG product.

So, if not for technical reasons, what else could explain it?

First, maybe Apple didn't feel comfortable shipping such a 'hacky' product, but had to have something to offer the market, and hence gave LG the IP. It can reasonably be argued that Apple is somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of using multi-stream displays (i.e., stitching together two 4K streams to make a 5K one, rather than having a native, single 5K stream) because the 5K iMac doesn't have a multi-stream display (and is the only single-single stream 5K display on the market!). The iMac uses proprietary internal connectors and timing controllers to avoid having to use a multi-stream technology. This would have come at some cost and engineering effort. So, if Apple prefers single-stream, they might simply have not wanted to make their own 5K Thunderbolt Display until DisplayPort 1.3 comes out.

Second, business. The Thunderbolt Display would have been a tiny volume product by Apple's standards that probably just wasn't profitable anymore. (Personally I think it should have been kept regardless but that's another debate).

Third, engineering capacity. We know that Apple is a functionally-organised operation (there was probably never a group of people who *just* worked on external displays, for instance), and with R&D spending increasing dramatically, the Mac being neglected, ship dates being missed, and what appears to be a growing number of software and hardware issues, Tim Cook just simply cannot afford to have people spending their valuable time on external displays anymore. It sounds crazy in a company the size of Apple, but it's probably true. The LG UltraFines may have been the best balance between 'spend as little time on it as possible' and 'ship something'.

Again, this is just my personal take on it.

Yes this is realistic. A lot of people seem certain that Apple has abandoned the display market forever. That's just not true. They have new Thunderbolt diplays, and have likely been tinkering around with integrating GPUs into it as rumours have suggested. The technology isn't ready for Apple to do it and their Mac lineup isn't ready.

 

[richinaus]

One reason why they chose white keys on the desktop keyboard because it makes them easier to see in low light conditions. This is done because a backlight can't be implemented due to power constraints. Over time, white has also become standard for the Mac peripherals (it looks cleaner and differentiates itself from PCs) but, as it has done before, i'm sure that can change that. That will definitely make sense if they add a Touch Bar and possibly backlighting.
[doublepost=1483544758][/doublepost]
The iMac is due a redesign and now seems like the time it will happen, so I will actually be surprised if it doesn't happen. Although even if it doesn't, it will be quite a significant refresh bringing Thunderbolt 3, a better display, faster flash storage, faster RAM, and significant GPU improvements with Polaris/Vega (and the ability to have a better eGPU in the future)

If they want to implement a Touch Bar, black keys would be the way to go and therefore a space gray option, so it makes sense for all peripherals to have a space gray model. A Touch Bar keyboard is essential to keep developers interested in utilising it, and it would make the keyboard truly live up to its name.
[doublepost=1483544971][/doublepost]
Yes this is realistic. A lot of people seem certain that Apple has abandoned the display market forever. That's just not true. They have new Thunderbolt diplays, and have likely been tinkering around with integrating GPUs into it as rumours have suggested. The technology isn't ready for Apple to do it and their Mac lineup isn't ready.

Good points Appleaker!

On the white keyboard - I am sat here right now typing on a magic keyboard, and wish the keys were black. I only use this keyboard in well lit spaces as it is for an office desktop set up. The logic to make them white as not backlit is an odd one, as right now the silver and white compete with each other so it is more difficult to see the keys in a well lit space [where the keyboard is more likely to be used].

I wouldn't be so sure on space grey as the only solution, as silver and black actually works better I feel for Keyboards [better definition etc].

I wouldn't be super confident on your last post though on the displays coming back. What you say is something I would hope for and would love to see it, but haven't got high hopes. For me, stopping the displays the single biggest cock up by Apple recently. If there is one thing I want well designed it is the display as I sit in front of it for a long time. For marketing the brand at least, an Apple branded display is super important - I just don't get it. Even at a slight loss it is still worth making.

 

[Appleaker]

Good points Appleaker!

On the white keyboard - I am sat here right now typing on a magic keyboard, and wish the keys were black. I only use this keyboard in well lit spaces as it is for an office desktop set up. The logic to make them white as not backlit is an odd one, as right now the silver and white compete with each other so it is more difficult to see the keys in a well lit space [where the keyboard is more likely to be used].

I wouldn't be so sure on space grey as the only solution, as silver and black actually works better I feel for Keyboards [better definition etc].

I wouldn't be super confident on your last post though on the displays coming back. What you say is something I would hope for and would love to see it, but haven't got high hopes. For me, stopping the displays the single biggest cock up by Apple recently. If there is one thing I want well designed it is the display as I sit in front of it for a long time. For marketing the brand at least, an Apple branded display is super important - I just don't get it. Even at a slight loss it is still worth making.

Yeah, I would love a black backlit keyboard. I also think they should use the Butterfly 2 switches (but I'm sure that won't be appreciated by many).

With a backlight on a white keyboard, the letter color for the light would have to be gray and that wouldn't work so well.

Silver and black is possible, but the reason behind space gray only is that:
a) It's now Apples chosen default colour for the MBP and they like Black for "Pro" things. My guess is that a Touch Bar keyboard would be labelled as Pro but that's just a guess.
b) I don't think they would just bring out a black keyboard and not have black options for the mouse and trackpad, so space gray may be the name for those models.

Hmm... I'm still confident that the possibility of Apple releasing their retina displays shouldn't be ruled out. I don't think now is the right time to release it.

 

[richinaus]

Yeah, I would love a black backlit keyboard. I also think they should use the Butterfly 2 switches (but I'm sure that won't be appreciated by many).

With a backlight on a white keyboard, the letter color for the light would have to be gray and that wouldn't work so well.

Silver and black is possible, but the reason behind space gray only is that:
a) It's now Apples chosen default colour for the MBP and they like Black for "Pro" things. My guess is that a Touch Bar keyboard would be labelled as Pro but that's just a guess.
b) I don't think they would just bring out a black keyboard and not have black options for the mouse and trackpad, so space gray may be the name for those models.

Hmm... I'm still confident that the possibility of Apple releasing their retina displays shouldn't be ruled out. I don't think now is the right time to release it.

I don't think SG is the 'default' option, but just an option. Personally I have bought 3 TB MBP's [2x13, 1 x 15" - family and business use], all silver. I initially bought one in SG but couldn't stand the colour change in different light, and the nail in the coffin was the bad scratches I saw in a store, with glaring silver underneath. I have no regrets on buying silver.
Best would be 2 options on the colour of the keyboard and will be interested to see how it pans out.

I am not super fussed either way but just think silver and black keys offer the best contrast.
Also I will be very surprised if they don't release the TB Magic Keyboard. I look forward to it with additional usb on the desk again with a numeric keypad hopefully [which I miss]. Love the travel on the magic keyboard though and don't feel it really needs a change to the same as a TB MBP.

It will be interesting to see how this next iMac turns out. It needs something new to keep up with the Surface Studio in terms of desirability, and despite the lack of leaks, I hope for a re-design.

 

[Appleaker]

I don't think SG is the 'default' option, but just an option. Personally I have bought 3 TB MBP's [2x13, 1 x 15" - family and business use], all silver. I initially bought one in SG but couldn't stand the colour change in different light, and the nail in the coffin was the bad scratches I saw in a store, with glaring silver underneath. I have no regrets on buying silver.
Best would be 2 options on the colour of the keyboard and will be interested to see how it pans out.

I am not super fussed either way but just think silver and black keys offer the best contrast.
Also I will be very surprised if they don't release the TB Magic Keyboard. I look forward to it with additional usb on the desk again with a numeric keypad hopefully [which I miss]. Love the travel on the magic keyboard though and don't feel it really needs a change to the same as a TB MBP.

It will be interesting to see how this next iMac turns out. It needs something new to keep up with the Surface Studio in terms of desirability, and despite the lack of leaks, I hope for a re-design.

Yeah, I agree that silver actually looks really good on the new MBP. You make good points, and you could be right. But the colors are quite similar so it doesn't matter.

I would love for it to have the wired keyboard design but I don't think it will happen unfortunately. I like the travel, but I like the feel of the MBP keyboard as well. I think they need to finalise a keyboard to go with, instead of have different keyboards on different devices.

The Surface Studio is more expensive than the iMac, and think the next iMac will be even more appealing. Brighter display, faster storage, more storage options, faster RAM, Kaby Lake, Polaris GPU (Vega would be better but I'm not sure on it's release), and Thunderbolt 3. As well as that, the iMac is due a redesign which should add visual appeal.

To compete with the functionality of the Surface Studio, they could have an accessory that works with the Apple Pencil and is in the form factor of the keyboard but it's a display. They could tweak the size and it'd have more space than the 9.7" iPad Pro. The only way to sufficiently power it while keeping it wireless would be to implement true (long range) wireless charging.

 

[fokmik]

i suppose a backlit wit/withouth touchbar will come along with the upcoming imac

 

[richinaus]

i suppose a backlit wit/withouth touchbar will come along with the upcoming imac

My guess is will need to be wired for the power requirements of a backlighting so may as well go the whole way and put on a touch bar also.

 

[xgman]

[QUOTE="Appleaker, post: 24158320, member: 1033229"


To compete with the functionality of the Surface Studio, [/QUOTE]

I honestly don't think Apple has it in their corporate mind to compete with anything along these lines, for whatever reason. And I don't expect anything exciting anywhere in the Apple product pipeline aside from the possible iphone 8 redesign of which even that could underwhelm. I'd actually like to see Apple refresh itself from the top down and stop playing it so safe. (and boring)

 

[Appleaker]

[QUOTE="Appleaker, post: 24158320, member: 1033229"


To compete with the functionality of the Surface Studio,

I honestly don't think Apple has it in their corporate mind to compete with anything along these lines, for whatever reason. And I don't expect anything exciting anywhere in the Apple product pipeline aside from the possible iphone 8 redesign of which even that could underwhelm. I'd actually like to see Apple refresh itself from the top down and stop playing it so safe. (and boring)[/QUOTE]
I agree, I think they'll stick with the iPad for drawing.

One area that I constantly see Apple leaving is education. They have chosen to abandon older ports, they refuse to have a touch screen, they removed MagSafe (something which is particularly useful for students), they made the keyboard louder (although I like this), they do not have stylus support, they have kept the prices high.

There has never been a worse time for students to buy a MacBook. I think Steve Jobs understood that if you have Mac customers at a young age, they tend to stick with the brand. Tim Cook has completely disregarding this, and now Surfaces are really taking over the education space due to the flexibility and the fact they meet their needs.

With that rant out of the way, I think 2017 will be more impressive than you think. The iPhone 8 redesign will be cool, but by the time it will be released it won't be as amazing due to the similar competition. Not to mention it will be the premium model only, so cost more than the competition.

The only real magic with future devices, where Apple will be unique, it true wireless charging. To consumers, this will be a major selling point and wil be the first magical experience Apple has offered in a long time.

 

[Ddyracer]

Apple doesn't care about their desktop line the iMac is not their money milker, I expect soon:

iMac to lose half of the USB A ports replaced with C, ditch ethernet and the sd card slot, while still stubbornly using the ****** AMD gpus, and costing 4 grand still for the BTO maxed verison.

 

[fokmik]

i wonder if the imac will come with 4xx series amd or 5xx series?
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-500-mobility-rebrand-rx-570/

 

[DCIFRTHS]

But the iMacs are often used in corporate environments where wired Ethernet is common. And it doesn't make a difference to the thinness.

If there's no Ethernet, I'm not buying. And a dongle won't do for me as I don't like the weight of the adapter pulling on the cable. With that said, I don't see them leaving out an Ethernet port on a desktop machine.
[doublepost=1483868314][/doublepost]

But, looking at the situation, there is no technical reason for it. Indeed the opposite is true - Apple has apparently done the technical legwork for LG in the new UltraFine displays. Well-placed sources are suggesting that anyone who delves into a 5K UltraFine will see a treasure trove of Apple design: it's essentially an Apple display in an LG disguise.

Where did you see this information?


Regarding keyboards: As long as they keep a wired keyboard, with the non-butterfly keys, I'll be happy. I don't need or want the touch bar, but Touch ID would be a welcome addtion.

 

[Brookzy]

Where did you see this information?

It was the subject of quite a lot of debate on the Accidental Tech Podcast, and take a look at this Tweet chain from an anonymous Apple employee (the ATP lot quote him a lot and treat him as a credible source; I guess they know who they are). https://twitter.com/ATP_Tipster1/status/791711496241831936

Of particular interest: "With a whole extra GPU in there or nah?" "Yeah."