23-inch iMac on September 12th?

[Manic Mouse]

The tech spec sheet is still to be updated but methinks it'll be merom...

http://www.apple.com/uk/imac/whatsinside.html

It's Merom, looks at the numbers.

So now Apple have four laptops (two mobile, two not) and a workstation. Where's the desktop?

Cheapskates

Not sure how the iMac will stack up against the competition when they release conroe alternatives in the same price range. Looks like us Apple users will be stuck on slower hardware again, so much for the Intel transfer ey!

And before anyone says the Intel chips are faster than the G4/G5 chips, everything is relative and at the moment we're using comparable hardware with the wintel community, and merom is no doubt slower than conroe

Jason

Ironically Merom chips are actually more expensive than Conroes.

But totally agreed. You're going to turn away a lot of switchers with slower hardware.

 

[reflex]

So now Apple have four laptops (two mobile, two not) and a workstation. Where's the desktop?

Whatever way you look at it, the iMac and Mini are as desktop as Apple will get in the near future.

I assume a Conroe would have required some redesign, new motherboard etc. Maybe they felt it wasn't worth it after all the problems with the MBP and MB.

 

[ju5tin81]

Ironically Merom chips are actually more expensive than Conroes.

But totally agreed. You're going to turn away a lot of switchers with slower hardware.

And the 'new' yonah mini...

 

[Manic Mouse]

Whatever way you look at it, the iMac and Mini are as desktop as Apple will get in the near future.

I really want to get a Mac, but unless they release something with more grunt than the iMac then I literally have NO OPTION but to buy another PC. Come on Apple, stop turning customers away!

 

[milo]

Merom.

How can you tell?

If it really is merom, I'm not the tiniest bit bummed about it. The biggest downside to merom is the price, and these machines are damn cheap for what you get. I was expecting a bump, but not a price drop along with it.

My one big complaint is that they're still shipping 512 in some of these, that's a joke. And unfortunately, the minis still aren't that appealing, even after the bump.

 

[Manic Mouse]

How can you tell?

If it really is merom, I'm not the tiniest bit bummed about it. The biggest downside to merom is the price, and these machines are damn cheap for what you get. I was expecting a bump, but not a price drop along with it.

My one big complaint is that they're still shipping 512 in some of these, that's a joke. And unfortunately, the minis still aren't that appealing, even after the bump.

Max speed 2.33Ghz, 2.0Ghz version has 4Mb cache (Allendale has 2Mb). Deffinitely Merom without a doubt.

 

[milo]

Cheapskates

Not sure how the iMac will stack up against the competition when they release conroe alternatives in the same price range. Looks like us Apple users will be stuck on slower hardware again, so much for the Intel transfer ey!

Actually, merom chips are more expensive, so "cheapskates" isn't really appropriate. And the merom chips aren't slower, they're basically the same chips, just lower power and lower heat versions.

But the conroe chip is too good to pass up, it's intel's best bang for the buck. I wonder if this is yet another sign pointing to a midtower?

 

[j_maddison]

Ironically Merom chips are actually more expensive than Conroes.

But totally agreed. You're going to turn away a lot of switchers with slower hardware.

I think I'm taking this a bit to overly personal because I've lined up a switcher, who will no doubt just run to the first wintel reseller after this announcement. She can't afford to make the jump to a Macpro, and concluded that a mobile cpu wouldn't have enough grunt for her needs. The portability of the iMac was also a big plus for her.

I fear Apple have missed something big here. They've really squandered an opportunity.

Jason

 

[satty]

Why is this not on the Front Page?


Arn?

It's available at the UK store as well...

24-inch widescreen LCD
1920x1200 resolution
2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor1
4MB shared L2 cache
1GB memory (2x512MB SO-DIMM)
250GB Serial ATA hard drive2
8x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL, DVD±RW, CD-RW)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300GT with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
Apple Remote

£1,349.01

 

[j_maddison]

Actually, merom chips are more expensive, so "cheapskates" isn't really appropriate. And the merom chips aren't slower, they're basically the same chips, just lower power and lower heat versions.

But the conroe chip is too good to pass up, it's intel's best bang for the buck. I wonder if this is yet another sign pointing to a midtower?

Sorry the 'cheapskate' jibe was aimed primarily at the fact Apple, in my opinion and I could be wrong, used the merom chip because it represented a lower overall price. I'm making this assumption becasue to the best of my knowlage the merom chip didnt require any redesign work to the iMac, where from what I've read on here the conroe chip would have. I should have been more specific.

I think price is the more apt word, as I believe a higher manufacturing cost would have yielded a lower overall cost from the higher sales I think a conroe chip would have delivered.

Jason

 

[~Shard~]

Wow, amazing! I thought the likelihood of seeing a 23" iMac was iffy, but for them to release a 24" instead - awesome!

And, since they put a Merom in the iMac, this is makes the Conroe mini-tower I've been asking for even more likely - after all, Apple has to use Conroe in something, it's Intel's biggest bang for your buck IMO.

 

[milo]

I think I'm taking this a bit to overly personal because I've lined up a switcher, who will no doubt just run to the first wintel reseller after this announcement. She can't afford to make the jump to a Macpro, and concluded that a mobile cpu wouldn't have enough grunt for her needs. The portability of the iMac was also a big plus for her.

Have her actually try one of these boxes out. The merom is a damn fast chip, don't write it off just because it's "mobile". Just look at the yonahs, they were as fast as a dual G5, and these are even faster.

 

[Manic Mouse]

The merom is a damn fast chip, don't write it off just because it's "mobile". Just look at the yonahs, they were as fast as a dual G5, and these are even faster.

It will still get left in the dust by actual desktop CPU's though. Conroes go up to 2.93Ghz and all have a faster FSB than Merom. As fast as Merom is, it still isn't as fast as Conroe. Not even close at the top end.

Don't force her into buying the iMac if it doesn't suit her needs. If she needs more grunt then she'll have to buy a PC, or wait for the Mac Tower to be released (if it ever is).

 

[milo]

It will still get left in the dust by actual desktop CPU's though. Conroes go up to 2.93Ghz and all have a faster FSB than Merom. As fast as Merom is, it still isn't as fast as Conroe. Not even close at the top end.

A 2.93 chip is only 25% faster than a 2.33, and I doubt the FSB will make that much of a difference. I wouldn't call that leaving it in the dust. Plus the 2.93 chip is EXTREMELY expensive, if you get a machine with that you'l probably be spending about as much as a mac pro if not more.

I'd love to see a conroe machine from apple, but these boxes are still very fast and priced well for what you get.

 

[dropadrop]

The Conroe processor alone outputs as much heat as the whole 17" imac blasting at full speed did with Yonah (and Merom should not differ). There is no way they could put a Conroe in their.

But they are missing a computer with Conroe.

 

[Manic Mouse]

The Conroe processor alone outputs as much heat as the whole 17" imac blasting at full speed did with Yonah (and Merom should not differ). There is no way they could put a Conroe in their.

But they are missing a computer with Conroe.

No it takes up as much power. Conroes are very cool. They run cooler than the Yonahs in the Macbook btw. Even the extreme edition only maxes out at 45 degrees in normal cases. How it would fair in the iMac case is where the debate comes into it. But I doubt it would run hotter than the 80 degrees some Macbook Pro's run at...

However they are deffinitely cooler than equivalent G5's, which required liquid cooling in PowerMacs.

 

[dropadrop]

No it takes up as much power. Conroes are very cool. They run cooler than the Yonahs in the Macbook btw. Even the extreme edition only maxes out at 45 degrees in normal cases. How it would fair in the iMac case is where the debate comes into it. But I doubt it would run hotter than the 80 degrees some Macbook Pro's run at...

However they are deffinitely cooler than equivalent G5's, which required liquid cooling in PowerMacs.

Conroes TDP is 65W, 80 (or 85W) for the Extreme edition. Yonah and Merom are both around 30W.

Intel announces TDP for manufacturers of cooling systems according to normal usage, not theoretical maximum, this means that 65W should be achieved fairly easily.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article594-page4.html

Maximum powerdraw for a 17" imac with Yonah has been measured at 63W, less then the TDP of Conroe.

Your approach of calculating coolness by temperature measured by an uncalibrated sensor is not very scientific. Putting a CPU that emmits double the heat into a confined case like the iMac will certainly force alot noisier cooling. Having a desktop motherboard chipset and videocard would only make things worse.

Again I'm not saying Conroe would not be a nicer processor in an appropriate computer, just not in the iMac.

 

[DrFrankTM]

How easy would it be to offer both a Conroe and a Woodcrest Mac Pro?

That's why you use conroe and P965 instead of a single woodcrest and 5000x. The memory bay is easily big enough for 4 regular DIMM slots instead of the FB-DIMM riser cards.

So how easy would it be to offer a Conroe Mac Pro with 4 regular DIMM slots as you suggest? Would it require a complete re-design of the internals or is it a fairly simple thing to change while pretty much everything else stays the same? (It's an honest question. I don't know much about that stuff.) And finally, at what kind of price do you think Apple could offer a box like that? I think if they can make it cheap enough, they'd have buyers, even though some would prefer a smaller case.

 

[milo]

So how easy would it be to offer a Conroe Mac Pro with 4 regular DIMM slots as you suggest? Would it require a complete re-design of the internals or is it a fairly simple thing to change while pretty much everything else stays the same? (It's an honest question. I don't know much about that stuff.) And finally, at what kind of price do you think Apple could offer a box like that? I think if they can make it cheap enough, they'd have buyers, even though some would prefer a smaller case.

It would be a redesign, but they could easily just take a stock intel mobo design and make minor tweaks to it. It would be different from the MP, but there would be minimal R&D since intel has already done almost all the work.

 

[DrFrankTM]

So... How much cheaper could they make it?

 

[aswitcher]

It would be a redesign, but they could easily just take a stock intel mobo design and make minor tweaks to it. It would be different from the MP, but there would be minimal R&D since intel has already done almost all the work.

But for maximized usefulness and sales it really should be a pizza box design. It should slide nicely where your vcr/dvd player is, and have an IR port, dual HDDs, preferably come in black metal with marketing aimed at multimedia.

 

[suneohair]

No it takes up as much power. Conroes are very cool. They run cooler than the Yonahs in the Macbook btw. Even the extreme edition only maxes out at 45 degrees in normal cases. How it would fair in the iMac case is where the debate comes into it. But I doubt it would run hotter than the 80 degrees some Macbook Pro's run at...

However they are deffinitely cooler than equivalent G5's, which required liquid cooling in PowerMacs.

Ok. Listen to what you just said. A Conroe runs cooler in a computer case then a yonah in a 1" thin notebook. No **** sherlock! How is that a worthy logical comparison? Thats right... it isnt.

Apple didnt use Conroe. Cry me a river. Go buy something else if it makes you unhappy. To those of you who seem to think that using Merom will hurts sales, because it is "slower hardware" let me tell you this.

The average consumer has no clue what the difference between a Merom and Conroe. They just dont. Not to mention they will see that Dell has a Core 2 Duo and Apple also has a Core 2 Duo. Good enough. If they want to buy a Mac, they will buy a Mac. The people one these forums (for the most part) are not normal consumers.

Before you give me the "I AM THE TARGET MARKET" bull, let me say this. You may very well be the target market, but Apple isnt out to please geeks. They are out to make money. You will never be satisfied with anything Apple does, a normal consumer doesnt care.

So please stop the whining folks. The iMac today is just as capable as it was yesterday. It is better, faster, and bigger too

 

[jesteraver]

One thing I want too see someone compare a iMac G5 1.8 GHz to the iMac Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz, I would love too see the benchmark.

One thing we might see 4-core iMac in 2008 called: Bloomfield. The Power Mac going to be insane, 2x 8-cores most probably. Both are 45nm.

One thing I can not wait until 2008 for an iMac, so going to change in 2007. Seeing they might use: Kentsfield. Similar to the Conroe, but not sharing the cache.