250,000 iPhones Sold to Unlockers?

[bbarnhart]

...Now once I'm on T-Mobile, I could sign up for their $39.99 Total Internet Data Plan + $39.99 myFaves 300 talk plan....Instead of AT&T $59.99 iPhone plan that includes talk/data. ...

You don't need the $39.99 (or whatever it is) T-Mobile plan. You can get the $5.99 (or whatever) which includes unlimited internet and email, but not push email. For me and my wife who are on T-Mobile, which we are very happy with the service, it would be $69.99 for 1000 minutes + 2 x 5.99 for $82. This is much less than $130 for two phones. Plus, another phone would be $30 vs $10 on T-Mobile.

And, I'd have to play $600 for two phones. If the phones were subsidized, we might switch. We are thinking about the BB Curve which would be $500 (2x$250). But for now, we'll just wait.

I'm not sure about your comment about T-Mobile renting AT&T's network. Do you have any links for that?

 

[mplsmnguy]

Bali

I even saw an 'unlocked' iPhone when I was in Bali on holiday in early September. I asked the guy if he lived in the U.S. and he said Italy. I wasn't sure if it was unlocked but I certainly hope so, fortunately AT&T credited my $100 in charges for turning the phone off airplane mode 5 times to check SMS messages when it did something in the background.

Apple certainly wants to prevent the unlock of phones but my AT&T service is generally good and cheap, for domestic use. You are seriously screwed if you are international and take this phone and don't know to NOT use it. Fortunately the new upgrade that lets you turn of EDGE will help but again, limited publicity on that as well...

 

[PURCELL429]

For AT&T this is a huge non-issue. They basically negotiated for Apple to stick with the GSM-enabled device. Thus, regardless of any unlocking device; it leaves Verizon Wireless - The only competition AT&T has out in the cold. Trust me, AT&T is not worried about T-Mobile. The other GSM US provider; who leases a majority of their Wireless Spectrum from AT&T anyways. On top of that, T-Mobile's rate plans are more expensive than AT&T's.

Of course, you can't really blame them for going with ATT over Verizon...since all of europe is GSM, they don't have to make an entirely new phone just to sell it overseas....even if they unlock the phone, only T-mobile customers can use it anyway, which is a fairly small percentage here. In the US, it made sense to lock it down, but not so much overseas...

 

[BuckarooBonzai]

CDMA = Qualcomm Royalty

I'm not a 100% sure, but with CDMA technology (Verizon Wireless); the handset provider has to pay Qualcomm a royalty to use their patented Technology. So, I'm sure that's another reason to avoid CDMA for Apple. I'm sure Vodafone is going to push their partner (Verizon) to switch technology at some point. Vodafone's supply chain infrastructure is built around GSM.

 

[Victor ch]

Thats supply and demand. I got an iPhone over ebay for 399 Euros, had to pay tax on top so total cost was about 460 Euros. The person who sold it to me paid 399 US$ so he made a profit.

I unlocked the phone and after a week I sold it for 520 Euros. I will get an official one for myself one day, but not just yet. Had I not been offered a profit I would have kept it.

Victor

Ok, thats seems clean but the guys here selling them for 900$ and actually seeing this as a business is illegal, I read at engadget.com that as long as you do not make profit out of it (unlocking iPhones) your not doing anything "bad" what you did is not "bad" although is sorta illegal your not making a business out of it which is what I meant.

-Victor

 

[Drumjim85]

Its obvious that the iPhone will be sold unlocked soon enough, as it is in France when it launches.

No, its not obvious. Explain... What makes you think apple doesnt have some kind of trick up their sleeves. From outrageous prices, to having the text only in French... Who knows whats going to happen..

 

[MacPhilosopher]

Rumor has it...

I heard that up to 40% of the phones were being bought and taken out of the country. What are the total units sold? 1.35 Million? That certainly brings it down to a reasonable figure. Say 20%. I wonder if they are primarily going out of the country. If that is the case, they will need to do something to increase US domestic sales when they introduce in Europe. Though, I have already had friends from France asking where best to pick up a Nano while in the US.(Ahhhh. The Apple Store.) The exchange rate is so strong that it is too tempting not to have them shipped out. Perhaps Apple will single handedly recoup our net losses in trade deficits overseas.

 

[samh004]

I want to violate my warranty; hack the phone so I could use T-Mobile (The only other GSM provider in the US). Who (by the way) leases most of their network from AT&T. Now once I'm on T-Mobile, I could sign up for their $39.99 Total Internet Data Plan + $39.99 myFaves 300 talk plan....Instead of AT&T $59.99 iPhone plan that includes talk/data. I think the 250K phones are just a bunch of noise in the system that dominates chat rooms like this. If folks are using this phone in other markets besides the US; I don't see how AT&T will care - They'll get their $175 cancellation fee. That's the US Market view. Internationally...I see your point a little clearer. However, if the manufacturer (Apple) wants to limit their user base. That's their business. Countless products (Electronics and others) do exactly the same thing.

Some people text a lot more than they talk, or don't want to use EDGE at all because their city is wired with hot spots (haha I know). So the rates that are given wherever the iPhone goes are sometimes very pointless to some people.

For myself, I use pre-paid in Asia and get through USD$12 every 2 months or so... so do you think it would benefit me going on a USD$59.99 plan equivalent here ?

 

[quigleybc]

could have been an american... but it's true that i'm sure many canadians have unlocked iPhones... and to tell you the truth i'm sure the number of unlocked iPhones will increase dramatically once Rogers announces their ridiculous cost/plan rates for the iPhone when it's finally released here...

I see an iPhone two or three times a week in Vancouver now a days....

 

[MattInOz]

I heard that up to 40% of the phones were being bought and taken out of the country. What are the total units sold? 1.35 Million? That certainly brings it down to a reasonable figure. Say 20%. I wonder if they are primarily going out of the country. If that is the case, they will need to do something to increase US domestic sales when they introduce in Europe. Though, I have already had friends from France asking where best to pick up a Nano while in the US.(Ahhhh. The Apple Store.) The exchange rate is so strong that it is too tempting not to have them shipped out. Perhaps Apple will single handedly recoup our net losses in trade deficits overseas.

I would guess most of this 250,000 was going to places outside to U.S.
I wonder if Apple knows exactly where they are going (linked to iTunes anyway) and is using that as a bargaining tool in those countries.

I had the friendly "are you happy with current service" call from Vodafone Aus the other day, when i said i was holding off new phone till i see what's happening iPhone in this country, he commented that that was a common response.

I know of a couple of people with phones already, and a stack more who want them.

 

[JPark]

they can't now; they have tied themselves up with at&t for five years.

4 years, 8 months. But who's counting?

 

[daneoni]

they can't now; they have tied themselves up with at&t for five years.

iPhone 1 yes. iPhone 2?....probably not

 

[artalliance]

iPhone 1 yes. iPhone 2?....probably not

Of course all current and subsequent models will be covered. AT&T isn't that stupid.

 

[IDANNY]

Hey, I by myself represent 3 out of those 250,000 phones.

And I don't even live in the U.S. but I use them quite well here in Israel .

Free the iPhone!

dont you miss the 3.5g?

 

[daneoni]

Of course all current and subsequent models will be covered. AT&T isn't that stupid.

Nor is Apple. First two revs maybe...spanning 4 yrs (2 2yrs contracts) and then they part ways but even then, i have a feeling Apple would have made some wiggle room/backdoor for themselves.

 

[BlueRevolution]

As for the As*****s at Rogers - they will never 'get it' - they are too STUPID to see that if more people used their data plans, they would make more money, so they continue to offer.....wait for it......50 mb a month for $65!
Total wankers. Who cares if it ever comes to Rogers? We have all the unlocked iPhones we need from Seattle area, although they are going for $550 here, which is a premium of around $50 if the iPhone was priced the same as the iPod touch at $449 plus 13% taxes.

You know, the lovely thing about the iPhone coming to Canada would be that Rogers (or whatever happy provider got an illegal monopoly here) would be forced to introduce a decent data plan. Imagine using the YouTube feature on the iPhone when you're paying obscene amounts for data over 50 megs. It'd be like buying a new iPhone every two months.

The reason the iPhone won't come to Canada in the near future is that Rogers won't introduce a decent data plan.

Sometimes I hate being Canadian.

On another note, I'm a little suspicious that Apple may have developed the iPhone to be unlockable as a way of getting around their contract with AT&T while being able to throw up their hands and say "wasn't us!". Whether intentionally or not, AT&T certainly pressured Apple with whatever penalties are written into the contract for violation, which is why Apple released 1.1.1. I suspect Apple doesn't care about unlockers one way or another.

 

[Bojaniste]

Macedonia

if there was AT$T here, i would be happy to activate it with them and use my iphone regulary... but we dont have here at$y so i have to use T-mobile network and use hacked iphone
not that i mind
i unlocked my iphone by my self using tutorials and tools from web, but here in macedonia, they want 150Eur for unlocking, or 650 eur for unlocked iphone...
thats too much... 650EUR = aprox. 900$...
BEst regards

 

[maestrokev]

You know, the lovely thing about the iPhone coming to Canada would be that Rogers (or whatever happy provider got an illegal monopoly here) would be forced to introduce a decent data plan. Imagine using the YouTube feature on the iPhone when you're paying obscene amounts for data over 50 megs. It'd be like buying a new iPhone every two months.

The reason the iPhone won't come to Canada in the near future is that Rogers won't introduce a decent data plan.

Sometimes I hate being Canadian.

I'm starting to wonder whether Rogers will price their data plan any better, it might only be a slight discount but certainly not at par with AT&T. Think about how much more Canadians typically pay for products/services versus Americans. Those expensive data plans haven't hindered people from using Blackberries. In the absence of competition from another GSM provider, Rogers has no reason to lower their rates.

 

[Veljo]

If Apple were smart they would have released one product that could be used on any network worldwide. The fact that one end of the globe has to wait so long is ridiculous.

Take me for instance — I live in Australia, we won't get them till 2008 some time, and I have one working perfectly on the Vodafone network charging in its dock next to me.

At the price the iPhone is being offered, it is EXPECTED that it should be unlocked. Locked to a network, prices of phones in Australia are instantly slashed by at least 50%. That being said, for a small fee ANY phone can be totally unlocked.

 

[rjwill246]

Hopefully this will make Apple sit up and take notice. People want the iPhone and they want it now. They dont want to be locked into a network and well, they should just release an unlocked version and be done with it.

The fact that there are 250k unlocked phones and there and forums around the world have these people posting their thoughts and experiences and confirming the networks that it will work on is great and free market research and field testing for Apple.

They think they know whats best for people but 17% of all iPhone sales tell a very different story. Apple really needs to sit up and take notice.

You have missed the point as have all the people who want unlocked iPhones. ATT and Apple had to come up with some arrangement that guaranteed that the iPhone would sell. Just releasing the iPhone, unlocked, hoping people would not only buy it but find carriers who would take it on, would have been a catastrophe. Sales would have been a fraction of the current numbers, because Apple was warned- threatened even- that the big phone manufacturers would lean on the carriers NOT to carry the iPhone.

What really ticks me off about all the whining about unlocked phones and "why can't we have them in this or that country" shows a lack of understanding of how the mobile phone market works. Carriers all over the world dictate to phone makers what features that they will/will not allow and what charges will be made for the extra features.

Apple got ATT to NOT cripple the iPhone and this was a major breakthrough.

For its part, ATT has done a great job and the rates are very reasonable. They deserve to make money for the risk they took and the costs of upgrading the network to carry the iPhone.

When people deny ATT revenue it is showing a complete disregard of the above.

Note: most of the complaints are not from the US but from overseas. Weird!!! The US customer satisfaction rate for the iPhone and ATT from recent surveys shows overwhelmingly positive results. Reading these posts gives no indication whatsoever what the public thinks.

And, I will bet you that most of those 250,000 iPhones were not destined for use in the US. Europeans have been in NYC buying 5 at a time to take back to Europe, so the 17% does not really represent dissatisfaction with the Apple/ATT arrangment. Again, this forum gives a very distorted view of what is really happening.

 

[artalliance]

Nor is Apple. First two revs maybe...spanning 4 yrs (2 2yrs contracts) and then they part ways but even then, i have a feeling Apple would have made some wiggle room/backdoor for themselves.

Not if they signed a five year exclusive deal. AT&Ts would be retarded to let Apple insert wiggle room in the contract.

If anything, they might have been an early termination clause if the product would have flopped. But not the other way around.

 

[sananda]

Note: most of the complaints are not from the US but from overseas. Weird!!!

that's because of the difference in the mobile phone market between the US and other countries. the overwhelming majority of US mobile phone users have a long term contract with an air time provider. for them iphone is an attractive proposition. they were going to be in some sort of contract anyway, the tariffs are reasonable, and they like iphone. whereas for instance in the UK only 35% of mobile users have any sort of contract at all. so it is quite a change for them to have to enter into a long term contract to use their phone of choice.

 

[7on]

You don't need the $39.99 (or whatever it is) T-Mobile plan. You can get the $5.99 (or whatever) which includes unlimited internet and email, but not push email. For me and my wife who are on T-Mobile, which we are very happy with the service, it would be $69.99 for 1000 minutes + 2 x 5.99 for $82. This is much less than $130 for two phones. Plus, another phone would be $30 vs $10 on T-Mobile.

And, I'd have to play $600 for two phones. If the phones were subsidized, we might switch. We are thinking about the BB Curve which would be $500 (2x$250). But for now, we'll just wait.

I'm not sure about your comment about T-Mobile renting AT&T's network. Do you have any links for that?

Places where T-mobile doesn't have a tower they will lease an AT&T tower (it was Cingular when the deal was made, and I still sometimes operate on Cingular towers while roaming). I can take a picture of my phone on a cingular tower if you like. I think about a year ago it expanded t-mo's coverage by a third or more. And Cingular got to use T-mo towers where they didn't have coverage.