A Christmas Carol — A Startling Analysis!!!

[localoid]

For instance, if the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come is capable of seeing the future, then why didn't it show Scrooge's impact as a new person?

Probably because Dickens realized that would make for terrible storytelling.

Showing Scrooge his negative future seems much more logical that showing him the positive one, if Scrooge is too learn about the need for him to change his ways. Show Scrooge the positive future and he'd assume he could continue on leading his life as he had been. The spirit would have had to verbally "set this up" for Scrooge to understand he was viewing a positive future that required him to change his ways. As written, the spirit didn't speak a word -- showing Scrooge his negative future was much simpler and effective storytelling.

Why did Tiny Tim die in that vision if he didn't actually die so young as prophesized? If the GoCYtC is a conduit to the future, then it is a faulty conduit, because it failed to show Scrooge what was indeed going to transpire.

Because the vision of the future shown was what would have happen if Scrooge hadn't changed his ways.

But the GoCYtC is not a conduit to the future, it's a determinant of the future ...

According to whom?

 

[citizenzen]

According to whom?

Barack Hussein Obama.

I think.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well, stories which stress the possibility and power of redemption have long been popular, and clearly strike a chord with the public, then and now; reformed rakes and reprobates are considered a lot more interesting than those who never transgressed in any way.

Indeed, it was clear from the immediate reaction that Dickens - as sharp a populist author as ever lived, for all that he was also a passionate supporter of reform, - knew he was onto a commercial and critical winner with 'A Christmas Carol'.

 

[citizenzen]

Well, stories which stress the possibility and power of redemption have long been popular, and clearly strike a chord with the public, then and now; reformed rakes and reprobates are considered a lot more interesting than those who never transgressed in any way.

Excellent point.

Earlier I had alluded to something within Scrooge's character that was great. But as you suggest, I'm guilty of rewarding the reprobate ... for behaving as they should have all along.

While the ability to reform oneself is a blessing, it's best not left to the last minute.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Excellent point.

Earlier I had alluded to something within Scrooge's character that was great. But as you suggest, I'm guilty of rewarding the reprobate ... for behaving as they should have all along.

While the ability to reform oneself is a blessing, it's best not left to the last minute.

Agreed.

But the very idea that you can reform on your death bed, (and whether Scrooge died or not, the story made quite clear that nothing other than the threat of death, still more, the consequences of not having attempted genuine transformation before this death would lead to the dire future forecast for him and his legacy), and all is forgiven is a very old one in western thought and religion.

Indeed, part of its attraction, I suspect, is that one is rarely obliged to address, or is rarely called to account for the misdeeds, mistakes, omissions, and transgressions accumulated over the whole of a lived life - indeed, one can be totally forgiven these matters - if your repentance is adjudged sincere enough.

In this scenario, transformation can be indefinitely postponed until the moment of mortality seems imminent - and there, you may be onto something when speculating on the possible time of his threatened death.

 

[citizenzen]

Agreed.

But the very idea that you can reform on your death bed, (and whether Scrooge died or not, the story made quite clear that nothing other than the threat of death, still more, the consequences of not having attempted genuine transformation before this death would lead to the dire future forecast for him and his legacy), and all is forgiven is a very old one in western thought and religion.

Indeed, part of its attraction, I suspect, is that one is rarely obliged to address, or is rarely called to account for the misdeeds, mistakes, omissions, and transgressions accumulated over the whole of a lived life - indeed, one can be totally forgiven these matters - if your repentance is adjudged sincere enough.

This is echoed in Buddhism, where karma can be as weighty as the chains in the story, but once enlightened, the chains fall off and are gone in an instant. In my experience, letting go is very much like that. What seemed like a lifelong burden can suddenly drop away, unexpectedly, never to come back.

In this scenario, transformation can be indefinitely postponed until the moment of mortality seems imminent - and there, you may be onto something when speculating on the possible time of his threatened death.

It would be taking a great risk to imagine that it could be switched on so easily.

I prefer a description I heard years ago, "enlightenment is like walking through a heavy mist. At what point is one considered wet?"

 

[localoid]

While the ability to reform oneself is a blessing, it's best not left to the last minute.

By that logic, if one does leave it off to the last minute, I suppose it helps to have a business partner that recommends you for redemption.

 

[citizenzen]

By that logic, if one does leave it off to the last minute, I suppose it helps to have a business partner that recommends you for redemption.

I find reminders immensely helpful. I'm becoming quite forgetful in my old age.

 

[localoid]

I find reminders immensely helpful. I'm becoming quite forgetful in my old age.

Jacob Marley.

 

[Big Stevie]

I love the Scrooge films and watch a few of them every Christmas.

But I do always wonder if Scrooge is being selfish when changing his ways. Is he only changing his ways because he knows that otherwise he's about to die? Does he change his ways purely to prolong his life?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I love the Scrooge films and watch a few of them every Christmas.

But I do always wonder if Scrooge is being selfish when changing his ways. Is he only changing his ways because he knows that otherwise he's about to die? Does he change his ways purely to prolong his life?

I think that this is to underestimate the power of altruism as something which can serve to motivate people. Sometimes, altruism can develop its own dynamic and it can be its own psychological reward.

Re Mr Scrooge, while many cultures admit the possibility of repentance and of spiritual and moral transformation, most also stress that it must be considered genuine for this action to be accepted as a transformative act, rather than something which is simply convenient to do at the time.

 

[citizenzen]

I love the Scrooge films and watch a few of them every Christmas.

But I do always wonder if Scrooge is being selfish when changing his ways. Is he only changing his ways because he knows that otherwise he's about to die? Does he change his ways purely to prolong his life?

While you can fool humans with lies and deceit, you can't get away with it so easily with spirits. The GOCYTC is personified as Death, who's heard every reason, every plea, every lie, with which people implored him, in their attempt to avoid annihilation.