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Northgrove

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2010
1,151
437
Then its safe to say that Samsung cannot copy this chip or design for their own products?
I think that is correct, yes.

IC layout design protection @ Wikipedia.

IC layout designs are usually the result of an enormous investment, both in terms of the time of highly qualified experts, and financially. The possibility of copying by photographing each layer of an integrated circuit and preparing masks for its production on the basis of the photographs obtained is the main reason for the introduction of legislation for the protection of layout-designs.
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,539
25,302
The chip is an ARMv8 with a cluster of PowerVR G6430's and uses ARM's TrustZone/SecureCore technology. It's being manufactured by Samsung.


I think they are a little bit at the mercy of other companies pipelines still.

Manufactured by, not designed by. And yes, Apple have permission to use ARM's architecture, but what they're designing with that is incredible.

And I merely implied it was a stepping stone to something great. Of course, they are still at the mercy of other manufacturers. However it's indisputable that this step will only become bigger.
 

Northgrove

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2010
1,151
437
Hold on a sec. Why is it that all over the net, people post that its really a Samsung chip that Apple just branded and added some custom additions? I don't get those guys. It's clear that Apple Designed the Chip and Samsung Chip Fab division manufactured it according to Apple Spec. Or am I making an incorrect statement here?
Yes, it's an Apple design which is usually what people would call "an Apple chip" because the design (blueprint) is really what matters as for how the chip will perform. AMD aren't building their chips either, yet we call an AMD processor exactly that.

TSMC is apparently signed for A8, A9, A9X production. A9X. I can only imagine...
 

jas88

macrumors newbie
Jul 15, 2009
8
0
wow. the size of the static ram is shocking. TouchID is very expensive to implement it looks like..

I can't see any reason the TouchID would use a chunk of static RAM - apart from anything else, that consumes power constantly just to keep the contents intact, the last thing you want in a phone! Moreover, it's right next to the graphics cores - much more likely it's some sort of dedicated graphics-memory cache or framebuffer.

Is it just a coincidence that the whole iPhone 5S screen contents - at 32 bits per pixel - will be ... 2.9 Mbytes? That makes a whole lot more sense than storing fingerprint data in there (which is rarely used, and would have to be saved to the off-chip flash memory anyway to be preserved when the chip is powered down).
 

Northgrove

macrumors 65816
Aug 3, 2010
1,151
437
I can only agree with others here praising Apple's "A series".
This has been one big, successful project that just seems to keep on giving.

I bought my iPhone 5 and thought it had more processing power than I would need for at least the year to come, and I still think it has more than it "needs" to. And then they release the 5s which is 2x as fast... I'm almost like "Wait you don't need to push ahead this fast?"

It's as if they're making CPU's faster than I think they even need to, just because this project is so fruitful, even in pushing down costs. Just because they can.
 

RDeckard

macrumors regular
Sep 23, 2013
188
572
But then Samsung manufacturers the chip so it belongs to Samsung and they are innovative.

No. Just because Samsung manufactures the chip doesn't mean they own it (I presume you mean the chip's design).

Foxconn makes/assembles the iPhone and they sure as heck don't "own" the iPhone.

Re: your second point ("they [Samsung] are innovative")
Well... I guess that would depend on who you ask. ;-)
 

coolfactor

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2002
7,193
9,977
Vancouver, BC
People talk about Apple's lack of innovation, and yet Apple's A7 is one of the most innovative pieces of hardware available on a phone today. Amazing to think Apple designed this thing. Designing your own chip hardware means you're not at the mercy of another company's pipeline.

This is the start of something great.

Apple has alway done its own custom silicon to varying degrees. Even 20 years ago, there were Apple-branded chips in Macs, such as "system controllers" and sound processing chips. And Apple was also a direct participant in the PowerPC effort, until that hit a brick wall, so they switched to an Intel-based architecture.
 

Fruit Cake

macrumors 6502a
Mar 31, 2012
597
20
No. Just because Samsung manufactures the chip doesn't mean they own it (I presume you mean the chip's design).

Foxconn makes/assembles the iPhone and they sure as heck don't "own" the iPhone.

Re: your second point ("they [Samsung] are innovative")
Well... I guess that would depend on who you ask. ;-)

Samsung are innovative, just as innovative as apple. What they lack is refinement. They'll make a phone, throw in everything including the kitchen sink and see what sticks. It may not necessarily even work well, and some may even consider it beta-grade.

Apple on the other hand see what's available and try and massage it seamlessly and meaningfully into their product. Not everything works but usually the experience is a pleasant one, even if they're rehashing what's out there, it's done in a way that's useful and meaningful to people buying their product.
 

Jimmy James

macrumors 603
Oct 26, 2008
5,488
4,067
Magicland
People talk about Apple's lack of innovation, and yet Apple's A7 is one of the most innovative pieces of hardware available on a phone today. Amazing to think Apple designed this thing. Designing your own chip hardware means you're not at the mercy of another company's pipeline.

This is the start of something great.

This. This is true innovation that is more than skin deep. I'm not aware of any company demonstrating more innovation in this sector. IMO, Apple is also winning the beauty contest in the hardware wars.
 

schnazzer

macrumors newbie
Sep 27, 2013
2
0
I can't see any reason the TouchID would use a chunk of static RAM - apart from anything else, that consumes power constantly just to keep the contents intact, the last thing you want in a phone! Moreover, it's right next to the graphics cores - much more likely it's some sort of dedicated graphics-memory cache or framebuffer.

Is it just a coincidence that the whole iPhone 5S screen contents - at 32 bits per pixel - will be ... 2.9 Mbytes? That makes a whole lot more sense than storing fingerprint data in there (which is rarely used, and would have to be saved to the off-chip flash memory anyway to be preserved when the chip is powered down).


And this person has no clue what static ram is.
 

kunai

macrumors regular
Jun 3, 2013
178
1
People talk about Apple's lack of innovation, and yet Apple's A7 is one of the most innovative pieces of hardware available on a phone today. Amazing to think Apple designed this thing. Designing your own chip hardware means you're not at the mercy of another company's pipeline.

This is the start of something great.

....designed by Samsung in South Korea.
 

MacGeek1987

macrumors regular
Sep 11, 2012
126
0
New Hampshire, USA
It shows incredible dedication and pure genius when a consumer electronics company creates a dual-core mobile processor that rivals Intel's and Qualcomm's quad-core offerings :apple:
 

hugodrax

macrumors 65816
Jul 15, 2007
1,222
626
wow. the size of the static ram is shocking. TouchID is very expensive to implement it looks like..

What they reported is wrong. Static ram is very fast memory that does not require a dynamic refresh every so often to keep the contents alive, which means very fast reads and writes.

SRAM loses its content on powerless just like traditional cheaper dynamic ram.

That would be a massive waste of SRAM. The fingerprint data is gonna be stored in a small section of non volatile memory.

That big 3meg SRAM is probably another reason why the a7 is so fast.
 
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