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Jeremy1026

macrumors 68020
Nov 3, 2007
2,215
1,029
But doesn't Amazon help create jobs as they have to have people maintain these stores, developed the technology, R&D jobs, construction jobs to built these places etc...? Not being a smartass but seriously asking.

The "we need jobs" people don't care about skilled positions. They tend to focus on adding unskilled labor jobs.
 
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jyen

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2012
105
126
But doesn't Amazon help create jobs as they have to have people maintain these stores, developed the technology, R&D jobs, construction jobs to built these places etc...? Not being a smartass but seriously asking.

Also, just wanted to point out that there's also the Amazon employees restocking the shelves as seen in the video, and the chef who makes the food.
 
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stiligFox

macrumors 65816
Apr 24, 2009
1,483
1,328
10.0.1.3
I dreamed up something like this probably 8-10 years ago - every product would have an RFID tag and as such when passed by a sensor would get detected and automatically paid for.

Was cool idea to me, still is, but now that I'm older it seems a bit creepy...
 
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sidewinder3000

macrumors 65816
Jan 29, 2010
1,183
1,286
Chicagoland
A. The point is you are not only losing potential jobs in the short term, but as these systems catch on your losing jobs in the long term and that is bad for the economy.

B. Amazon is a publicly traded company. They operate in the best interest of their shareholders, not their customers. Their job is to make money, full stop. This "convenience" is nearly a means to an end. If this wasn't aimed at making money down the line they wouldn't do it, and if you can't see that then it is probably impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you on this topic.

C. Of course it isn't Amazon's responsibility, their only responsibility is to make money for the company and its shareholders. What I'm saying however is that these practices may be good for Amazon and other corporations, but it's bad for the country and society as a whole.
A. And? Is Amazon supposed to stop innovating and creating value/convenience for shoppers because people who lack skills need jobs? People without desireable skills will always need jobs. Amazon is not the caretaker for the economy. The world is changing. Unless you plan on creating government bans on innovation & technology, people will need to adjust.
B. In attempting to be clever by trying to throw a statement I made back in my face, you've wasted your time and mine. Of course Amazon is publicly traded. Of course they have a responsibility to their shareholders. Hoorah for pointing out the obvious. The sky is also (sometimes) blue. What's salient is that creating value for customers is the prime mover in the equation, not just a "means to an end". It's the whole point. In the long term, operating in the best interest of their customers is in the best interest of their shareholders. Companies that focus on shareholder value without creating long-term customer value will always be vulnerable to companies that make consumers happier. That's how it works.
C. How exactly can these practices be good for Amazon and "other corporations" and bad for society as a whole? If there is not also some real, tangible benefit for consumers then some savvy retailer will fill that void and create a way of selling products that consumers and society do like better. That's how it works.

And honestly, if we "as a society" can't think of something better for people to do than stand in one spot for 8 hours a day swiping products over a scanner so that a machine can add up a shopper's total bill, then we "as a society" are f-ed and should just give up now.
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I dreamed up something like this probably 8-10 years ago - every product would have an RFID tag and as such when passed by a sensor would get detected and automatically paid for.

Was cool idea to me, still is, but now that I'm older it seems a bit creepy...
It is a clever idea—you were just ahead of your time. Unfortunately, "progress" and "creepy" seem to be getting kinda chummy these days. Especially in information tech.
 

cmwade77

macrumors 65816
Nov 18, 2008
1,071
1,200
We just elected Donald Trump, we're about to have a hell of a lot LESS jobs than we did before. Middle America just doesn't know it yet, but they will soon. Surprise!
Actually, what we will have is a lot less of the low paying, minimum wage jobs. What we will end up with is a much more business friendly economy that will ultimately create more higher paying jobs that requires skilled employees.

You might ask why I think this is the outcome, well, it all comes down to the bottom line for businesses. This is what will be best for business, which is what Trump will want, as he runs businesses and it will ultimately be good for him in the long run. He certainly isn't going to do things that harm business, as that would harm him. I don't think he is a great guy, but in this aspect, he isn't stupid and isn't going to do things that harms business, as it would be bad for him, it would also make his legacy look bad and he is too egotistical to allow that to happen.

Now as for the Amazon concept, Seattle is the hotbed of the $15/hr minimum wage, as they have already enacted it and it has proven disastrous for many businesses, so testing this there makes sense. Add in the fact that Amazon is based there and it is a no brainer that this will be the first place they try it out at.

Some people prefer shopping in physical stores and this will provide for that, personally I prefer AmazonFresh and Prime Now and will order accordingly. Then it comes straight to my doorstep and since I live in California, I don't have to deal with the whole bag mess we created.
 

WarHeadz

macrumors 6502a
Aug 30, 2015
904
5,192
Long Beach, California
Actually, what we will have is a lot less of the low paying, minimum wage jobs. What we will end up with is a much more business friendly economy that will ultimately create more higher paying jobs that requires skilled employees.

You might ask why I think this is the outcome, well, it all comes down to the bottom line for businesses. This is what will be best for business, which is what Trump will want, as he runs businesses and it will ultimately be good for him in the long run. He certainly isn't going to do things that harm business, as that would harm him. I don't think he is a great guy, but in this aspect, he isn't stupid and isn't going to do things that harms business, as it would be bad for him, it would also make his legacy look bad and he is too egotistical to allow that to happen.
Ah. So when he bribes big businesses with corporate welfare, they're going to start hiring up unneeded labor from the goodness of their hearts? Good luck with that. I hope you're right, but you're probably not.
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Yes I will go to the person first if that is an option. On the gas one for awhile I was living in a town where one of the gas stations was full service and the other wasn't. I went to the full service one as often as I could.
Here in Jersey all gas stations are full service. It's the law. A wonderful law.
 
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flyinmac

macrumors 68040
Sep 2, 2006
3,579
2,465
United States
They do offer a discount, if your time is worth anything.

I find my time is better spent not being frustrated by a scanner that doesn't work, a scale that says I need to remove everything and start over, and a confusing touch screen that doesn't make sense.

Lots I can do while in line. Less I can do while arguing with some stupid computer that's making me do everything over again.

Anytime I've tried the self checkout lines, I've regretted it. I'll let them deal with the problems. Just let me know when everything is in the cart and I'll slide my card. I'll relax and talk with someone else.
 

sidewinder3000

macrumors 65816
Jan 29, 2010
1,183
1,286
Chicagoland
Ah. So when he bribes big businesses with corporate welfare, they're going to start hiring up unneeded labor from the goodness of their hearts? Good luck with that. I hope you're right, but you're probably not.
[doublepost=1480973692][/doublepost]
Here in Jersey all gas stations are full service. It's the law. A wonderful law.
It's only wonderful if you like paying more for gas.
 

dmylrea

macrumors 601
Sep 27, 2005
4,797
6,844
I find my time is better spent not being frustrated by a scanner that doesn't work, a scale that says I need to remove everything and start over, and a confusing touch screen that doesn't make sense.

Lots I can do while in line. Less I can do while arguing with some stupid computer that's making me do everything over again.

Anytime I've tried the self checkout lines, I've regretted it. I'll let them deal with the problems. Just let me know when everything is in the cart and I'll slide my card. I'll relax and talk with someone else.

Maybe if the self-checkout computers were macOS-based, you wouldn't struggle so much! :)

To be honest, I rarely have an issue with self-checkout at the grocery store or Home Depot (those that have self checkout).
 

bpcookson

macrumors 6502
Apr 6, 2012
484
90
MA
Yes! Paying people to do mindless, soul-crushing jobs is best for all! Forget re-educating the workforce to do more sophisticated, high-value jobs that strategically position our people and our country for greater long-term success! Let's continue to shove a pacifier in the mouth of any baby that cries and elevate "least common denominator jobs" to living wage status. Why create more great jobs when you can turn crappy jobs into great ones by upping their salaries!

With sound economic thinking like that you might be in the running for the next Secretary of Commerce, my friend.
Why not just run for president??
 
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WarHeadz

macrumors 6502a
Aug 30, 2015
904
5,192
Long Beach, California
It's only wonderful if you like paying more for gas.
And yet we pay less for gas than many states, go figure!

As a matter of fact, we paid less than much of the country before our moron governor implemented a 23 cent gas tax a couple of months ago. But we're still not the most expensive and still cheaper than other states that don't have mandatory full service.
 

npmacuser5

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,758
1,966
You'd rather have more people working in shopping centers at tills and more queues? Those people could be educated and serve the world far better than scanning in groceries.
[doublepost=1480962102][/doublepost]
What's the difference in Amazon or Tesco knowing?
And your local or national grocery chain does not collect information on what you buy?
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,473
8,170
Somewhere
And yet we pay less for gas than many states, go figure!

As a matter of fact, we paid less than much of the country before our moron governor implemented a 23 cent gas tax a couple of months ago. But we're still not the most expensive and still cheaper than other states that don't have mandatory full service.
When I had the full service station near me at the most they were 1 cent more, but usually they were the same price as the self service stations. I'm not sure how they did it, but it was very nice.
 

avanpelt

macrumors 68030
Jun 2, 2010
2,956
3,877
My local Kroger grocery store doesn't even staff the traditional checkout lanes after ~11 PM. Instead, they have one guy manning the six self checkout kiosks. That's the only option for checking out after 11 PM. If I have to do a lot of shopping, I refuse to get to the store after 10 PM because trying to checkout in the self checkout lanes with more than about 10 things is a pain in the ass.

Although now, I have another option that just rolled out to my area -- Prime Now. I just placed my first order the other day and it was a fantastic experience. Needless to say, Amazon will be getting even more of my business. My order consisted of groceries and a USB cable and everything arrived at my door within two hours of the time I placed the order. The frozen stuff was even colder than it would've been had I gone to get it from the store because the delivery guy had a cooler, of course.

Personally, I'd probably still opt to use Prime Now over this new offering because I'd rather help keep someone in a job and I'd much rather have things delivered to my door. It's a win for them and for me -- at least until the drones takeoff, if that ever happens.
 

jinnj

macrumors 6502a
Dec 9, 2011
551
499
Then you shouldn't make any phone calls because telecom company had taken away jobs from operators.
Yup and stop using the internet cause all those 411 (information) operators are out of work as well.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,907
It's not like replacing "mindless jobs" with those monitoring / maintaining / developing these types of systems are 1:1.

Technology has been eliminating simple jobs for centuries, and for centuries we've always found other work for people to do once humanity has been released from yet one more form of menial labor.

Technology means that we don't have people scrabbling bits of ore out of a dark cave with a handpick, shovel, and wheelbarrow. It probably sucked for those miners to lose their jobs if it was the only thing they knew and the only job in town, but today humanity is better off for it because we have far less people stuck in dark caves scrabbling for bits of ore.

So what level of labor saving technology is appropriate or inappropriate?
  • Should all elevators have elevator operators instead of buttons?
  • Should all textiles be woven by hand instead of machine?
  • Should clothes be hand sewn with needle instead of sewing machine?
  • Should all pots, pans, and helmets be hammered into shape by people instead of a stamping machine?
  • Should wheat be picked by hand instead of combine?
  • Should people dig ditches with a hand shovel instead of a backhoe?
  • Should people carry construction material up stairs on their backs instead of using a crane?
Stop any of this technology and you create a lot of menial jobs. But I don't see that as an improvement for humanity.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,491
Just what America needs....less jobs.

Your comment isn't applicable to this category, considering the amount of distribution centers Amazon has opened in the last 18 months, let alone expanding on their customer relation centers.
 

jinnj

macrumors 6502a
Dec 9, 2011
551
499
I really hope the people here who are talking about the loss of jobs like it's nothing won't also be whining when automation / ai / computers eventually put them out of a job too.
My end is coming soon... I see it but I am not standing around waiting for it. I think in my profession we will still have a need for my kind but it will be limited with less pay. Like drivers, the time will come when a CDL driver will no longer be needed but due to laws a human must be behind the wheel and at that point anyone will do.
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Yes I will go to the person first if that is an option. On the gas one for awhile I was living in a town where one of the gas stations was full service and the other wasn't. I went to the full service one as often as I could.

Sorry gotta call BS. Using a bank teller is a lot slower than any ATM. In fact, I haven't seen the inside of my bank in over a year. And that was because BOA decided I needed a new debit card and cancelled old one on a Friday morning. That ordeal took over 30 minutes and came with upsells on a variety of their other services.
 

npmacuser5

macrumors 68000
Apr 10, 2015
1,758
1,966
Retail changing rapidly, mostly for the good of consumers. Not so much for employment. I prefer the Amazon online shopping experience, to the mall, for many of the items I need. This time of the year our family is sharing Amazon wishlists, completed my rather diverse gift list in less then two hours, while listening to Prime Music. Frees up my time for other holiday tasks. Greatly improved experience for me.
 

LDN

macrumors regular
Jul 21, 2014
122
301
And when businesses do things like this I'll take my money to their competitors who actually employ real people and pay them a living wage.

LOL, you most certainly will not and we all know that. You'll get your groceries from the most convenient place at the time. Just like everyone else.
 
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