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FearNo1

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2009
589
0
I wonder what other functionality HTML5 will bring? Could it become a threat to apple's lucrative app biz?
 

heisetax

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2004
944
0
Omaha, NE
Kindle app on the iPad

I love how Amazon keeps one-upping Apple. Keep it up, Amazon.

That is why I still use the old Kindle app on my iPad. I like the fact that I can go straight to the Amazon Kindle Store. But then with Apple's Lion leaving everything open from startup to startup the Kindle Store never does go away. But there are times that I run Mac OS 10.6.8 & may have to load the Amazon Kindle Store all by my lonesome self. That's hard to do anymore. There must be an app for that?
 

procksa49er1120

macrumors member
Jun 6, 2011
38
11
USA
No one said

Neither of these companies are "Little Guys"

a joke maybe ?

the only exploitation has been on Apples part. Milking everyone with their stupid App store rules.
Too greedy and that is why Amazon did this.

But you understand that ....right?!


... that Dev's had to make Apps for the iPad platform. There are PS3 Exclusive Devs and Xbox Exclusive Devs.... So...


These poor, little, cry for me Devs WILLINGLY signed up for the App Store iOS environment as just another avenue for making $$$$. They could have just programmed a physical Media version and/or online download version and been done with it. But they realized the ease at which just posting to one place both the first App and Subsequent updates was WAY easier than maintaining there own online and store front presence. And for the convenience of hands off Distro they pay 30%. And?!?!?!?


I applaud Amazon for thinking outside the box on how to deliver content to iOS via HTML5 just ingenuiity of a Free Market society when one door shuts bust a hole in the wall and build another or go to another house all together (off iOS) either way thats free market freedom at work
 
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skochan

macrumors regular
Apr 1, 2006
150
0
California
That's wrong-headed thinking.

Apple have always supported Web apps. Web apps came before the app store.
Mobile Safari can offer web apps iOS like user interface elements, local storage and you can even install the app into an icon just like a native app.

There are two platforms on iOS. Web Apps and Cocoa touch.
Web apps will always be free and open, Cocoa Touch apps have more power and developers are required to share revenue. You takes your pick and you pays your money.

Apple don't block or prevent functionality for Web Apps, they have bent over backwards to make web apps more useful than on other platforms.

C.

Agreed. Let's not forget Apple is a hardware company. They want to sell more iPhones and iPads and computers. Period. To think this is somehow hurting them really misses the point. They really could care less if it's a native or web app. If it's a native app, you just have to follow their rules. That's all.
 

divinox

macrumors 68000
Jul 17, 2011
1,979
0
Seems like a pretty brilliant use of the latest HTML5 technologies (especially with the off-line functionality). The obvious benefit, as mentioned, would be getting around Apple's "give us 30% of the price for in-app purchases" rule; but it would seem to have other advantages as well. If Apple chose to dramatically change the API in a future release of iOS - or if Google did the same with Android, for that matter - Amazon wouldn't have to break a sweat. Kindle users would continue to have full access to their books on the iPad with no extra effort or feverish overtime work by their programers to update. It's not as if Apple or Google can remove HTML5 functionality without repercussions...

Not only that, if any new player comes up, guess what? they support it! (think wp7, webOS etc.)

Ive said it before, and ill say it again. Apps will soon be largely commoditized (HTML5 being one reason). Ironically, the thing Jobs got wrong initially is what will be right soon. Also, credit to O'Reilly, the web _is_ the platform.

p.s. the way Apple is treating developers i guess they'll have to pay high premiums for exclusives.

Ha !

This is funny and ironic seeing as Apple originally only wanted web based Apps with the original iPhone.

Credit to the above for being first!

Okay, let's summarize the old discussion again.

Apple pretended to champion HTML 5 for very simple reasons: Flash is a cross platform tool that allows the creation of STANDALONE applications - the app that you build for the iPhone would also run on an Android device or a Mac or a PC. Cross-platform capabilities are very dangerous to you when you want to lock-in people to your platform. Also, the Flash video format runs on any supported platform and since Apple wants to establish its own DRMed video format as a de facto standard, of course they don't want a third party technology competing with their own technology stack on their own platform.

HTML 5 on the other hand still is not an official standard and it requires a web browser to run. No standalone cross-platform apps, not even an official standard for video yet. So it's not remotely dangerous to Apple, especially since it's still more comfortable to use native apps (sold through the Apple App Store) over web apps. And Apple even looks good in the eyes of many users because they boast to support "an open standard" instead of "the proprietary Flash technology". Everybody who works in IT knows that this is all just BS, but the average Apple customer does not have enough technical background knowledge for making a proper judgment.

I'm sure that at this point Apple hates web browsers as much as Microsoft hated Netscape back in the day and that Apple would love to remove Safari from iOS so that their users would be forced to use apps for everything. When you sell platforms, open technology and open standards that make customers independent from your products are your natural enemy.

Companies like Amazon and Google have one major advantage in this game: They don't need to sell platforms or hardware in order to be successful. They ARE their own platforms and they are completely independent from hardware. They don't care what hardware you use because their software and stores work equally well across all platforms.

Apple's success is dependent on both their hardware AND their software; iTunes is only successful because of the iOS devices, and the iOS devices only sell because of the content and software fueled to them through the iTunes stores.

Now having a browser-based reader application is amazingly cool for Amazon customers. I'm running it here on my Windows notebook at work (in Google Chrome) and this thing works exactly as I expected it to work. It knows the position where I stopped reading on my Galaxy S2 or my Kindle at home and I don't even have to install anything on my machine to continue reading. I can now roam around the server room and read on any damn machine there if I want to while I wait for some computer jobs to finish. I love it.

Apple, on the other hand, has not even managed to ship an iBooks version of Mac OS X, let alone one for Microsoft Windows or - heaven forbid! - Android. No wonder that iBooks is not even remotely as successful as Kindle. Amazon, because they are not dependent on hardware sales, can provide a solution that is 100% customer oriented. Apple -has- to make compromises in order to protect their hardware sales. And in this case, these compromises make iBooks a less flexible and thus inferior offering.

It's just a question of time now until other content providers follow Amazon's example - or even use their platform - and publish their digital content using pure web technologies. As a side-effect, this will level the playing field between Android and iOS even more, since a huge amount of those apps in Apple's App Store are actually just eBooks, videos or music encapsulated in a reader/playback application.

Anyway. This is web reader is a win for customers and for Amazon, and it's big loss for Apple.

The irony is that the web, which made a lot of Apple's late success possible, is now turning against them. I guess the web simply doesn't like closed, proprietary technologies and attempted vendor lock-ins.

I agree with most of what you said, but the bold is way to broad of an assumption. There are numerous ways to price platform participation, and there surely are scenarios when open standards are beneficial*.

But yes, Apple probably loves the idea of Cable-style Internet, or Appernet. A bit too control happy for me to be a comfortable customer.

* e.g. see tipping strategy as described by Cusamano and Gawer, or consider the case of El Goog, working hard on easing your eventual departure from the platform. Of course, monopoly rents trump all, but those are rare = )

Never going to happen, its a mess on Android. Why would an user want to search serval app stores for something...

Yeah, i mean. Apple should buy all companies in the world and build a giant glass cube and sell all stuff in there. Right?

Think first.

p.s.

Hint: When you have hundreds of thousands of apps in the same store you end up with information overflow. As such, the situation calls for filtering and recommendation. Said things can be implemented in numerous ways, with varying results. For example, a store specializing in apps for X would probably provide a better service on X than a store that does everything from A to Z. And so on, and so forth.

Sure, your point is somewhat valid. There are scenarios where the fragmentation is highly unwanted. But, the same can be said about aspects of the situation were currently in.

Hint 2: Is Android market exactly the same as Apples app store? If not, in what way are they different? Does this difference equate difference in overall quality; i.e., given a choice would you prefer the use of one over the other?

Assuming your answer is -yes-, the fact that Apple doesnt get "everything right by default", and that competition has a good record for finding good solutions to new problems and better solutions to existing ones there are several reasons why one would want more than just one shop.
 
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Heitor

macrumors newbie
Aug 8, 2010
2
0
Two features for now missing

I've tested the cloud reader and missed two features: the dictionary (very helpful for me, as English is not my mother tongue, and I like reading as a learning method) and highlighting. At least I tried the same gestures and nothing happened.
 

MattInOz

macrumors 68030
Jan 19, 2006
2,760
0
Sydney
Agreed. Let's not forget Apple is a hardware company. They want to sell more iPhones and iPads and computers. Period. To think this is somehow hurting them really misses the point. They really could care less if it's a native or web app. If it's a native app, you just have to follow their rules. That's all.

Yes the vibrancy of the Eco-system around the hardware is far important to Apple selling hardware than any so called "Vendor Lock"*. Having something cool that works well everywher is no advantage to an particular hardware vendor but it's not a disadvantage either. Moves like this could well be great for smaller publishers if they get the general public use to the idea of Web Apps being a quality way to deliver content.

* I don't buy the vendor lock thing it seriously hasn't stopped anyone transitioning between any platforms it just makes them more bitter about leaving.
 

divinox

macrumors 68000
Jul 17, 2011
1,979
0
Agreed. Let's not forget Apple is a hardware company. They want to sell more iPhones and iPads and computers. Period. To think this is somehow hurting them really misses the point. They really could care less if it's a native or web app. If it's a native app, you just have to follow their rules. That's all.

Apple is not "a hardware company". What kind of cheese are you eating?

I've tested the cloud reader and missed two features: the dictionary (very helpful for me, as English is not my mother tongue, and I like reading as a learning method) and highlighting. At least I tried the same gestures and nothing happened.

should be (relatively) easy to implement. patience...

Yes the vibrancy of the Eco-system around the hardware is far important to Apple selling hardware than any so called "Vendor Lock"*. Having something cool that works well everywher is no advantage to an particular hardware vendor but it's not a disadvantage either. Moves like this could well be great for smaller publishers if they get the general public use to the idea of Web Apps being a quality way to deliver content.

* I don't buy the vendor lock thing it seriously hasn't stopped anyone transitioning between any platforms it just makes them more bitter about leaving.


If leaving makes you bitter, it is safe to assume that switching had a cost. The higher the cost, the more locked in you are. I am not sure if its that you just dont understand the concept, but that post of yours was quite... odd.

Second, for Apple it is a disadvantage*, as they have use "theres an app for that" as a selling point. When apps become commoditized, differentiation becomes harder, and justification of high premiums even harder.
 
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BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
Why are people trying to present this web app as a "lose" for Apple? What have they lost? Revenue? The native app was free. Lock in? Kindle is available on multiple platforms already. Control? They are specifically promoting web apps as a development platform on iOS devices.

Basically, apps can be separated into four categories.

1. Non-Apple compatible apps
2. Open standards-based apps
3. Multiplatform Apple compatible apps
4. Exclusive Apple apps

Obviously, (1) is bad for Apple and (4) is great for Apple. (2) and (3) are good for most platforms.
 

AaronEdwards

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2011
729
1
Why are people trying to present this web app as a "lose" for Apple? What have they lost? Revenue? The native app was free. Lock in? Kindle is available on multiple platforms already. Control? They are specifically promoting web apps as a development platform on iOS devices.

Basically, apps can be separated into four categories.

1. Non-Apple compatible apps
2. Open standards-based apps
3. Multiplatform Apple compatible apps
4. Exclusive Apple apps

Obviously, (1) is bad for Apple and (4) is great for Apple. (2) and (3) are good for most platforms.

Content providers that are now paying Apple 30% can make a deal with Amazon instead.
 

AaronEdwards

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2011
729
1
Which is the same as before Amazon released a web app.

If Amazon's web app gets popular then those content providers will still have a big sales window on iOS, and Apple won't get their 30%.

That would be far from as it was before.

Lets then say that Amazon makes it possible to buy and use HTML5 apps/games from their web app, or another web app focused on apps/games. Or music for that matter.

All things that Apple was getting 30% from.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
If Amazon's web app gets popular then those content providers will still have a big sales window on iOS, and Apple won't get their 30%.

That would be far from as it was before.

Amazon has always sold kindle books through the web on iOS. What has changed for Apple?

Lets then say that Amazon makes it possible to buy and use HTML5 apps/games from their web app, or another web app focused on apps/games. Or music for that matter.

All things that Apple was getting 30% from.

How did you get from books to web apps? (Why would you pay Amazon to distribute a web app?)

Apple operates the iTunes Store a bit over break even. A shift to web apps isn't going to impact their bottom line.
 

AaronEdwards

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2011
729
1
Amazon has always sold kindle books through the web on iOS. What has changed for Apple?



How did you get from books to web apps? (Why would you pay Amazon to distribute a web app?)

Apple operates the iTunes Store a bit over break even. A shift to web apps isn't going to impact their bottom line.

If Amazon's window is big enough and if they want a smaller cut, then that may happen, even more so if Amazon would be able to offer a solution that would make these HTML5 apps/games work on both iOS and Android, something that then would save developing costs.

About the iTunes Store running break even.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,795
10,933
If Amazon's window is big enough and if they want a smaller cut, then that may happen, even more so if Amazon would be able to offer a solution that would make these HTML5 apps/games work on both iOS and Android, something that then would save developing costs.

:confused: I have no idea what this has to do with a Kindle web app or why Amazon would develop a platform on top of HTML5, since HTML5 would presumably already work on iOS and Android.

About the iTunes Store running break even.

Yep.
 

divinox

macrumors 68000
Jul 17, 2011
1,979
0
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

sorry. i thought for a second you were serious.

you weren't serious, right?

Dead serious. Apple is not a hardware company. Hardware companies sell hardware. Software companies sell software. Which group does Apple belong to? Oh, both? Guess you need to wipe that smile off your face then.

Apple is not a hardware company; Apple is a vertically integrated producer of software based platforms and ICT-artefacts. Why does it matter? Because it has an impact on what business models that are available; e.g., Apple could give away their devices and rely on sales of complements - something a "hardware producer" couldn't do.

Get off the cheese.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,156
2,466
OBX
Just as an aside, Kindle Cloud Reader looks a whole lot like the Kindle Reader for TouchPad.

I wonder if Amazon will update the interface in the iOS apps to match.
 

Harry280

macrumors newbie
Apr 25, 2012
1
0
The Amazon Kindle 4

The Amazon Kindle 4 (aka Kindle 4th Gen, Kindle Touchless or just plain Kindle) was announced as a sidenote to the colour Kindle Fire and touch-enabled Kindle Touch. But in many ways it was the most significant of the three, because of its extraordinary price.

The UK remains the poor cousin to the US in the world of dedicated ebook readers. While many are on the market, to be a real success they need the vertical integration of being linked with a book seller, both for usability and the subsidy to the initial purchase price.

A stand-alone reader needs to make a profit for the manufacturer from the retail price alone, while a book seller device can make its money from the books and so can afford to be priced cheaply. And Amazon as the biggest book store can subsidise its ereaders the most.

As a result we really only have Amazon's Kindle, missing out on other book seller-tied devices such as the Nook and Kobo.

Worse, we currently only have one of the new generation of Kindles, the others being restricted to the US (presumably for supply reasons). And to add salt to the trans-Atlantic wound, our new Kindle costs £89 compared to $79 (around £50) in the States.

But we do at least have one of the next-gen Amazon Kindles, and it's still very, very cheap. So how does it stack up?

Well, unlike the Kindle Touch and Kindle Fire, the plain Kindle is basically a cut down and repackaged version of last year's Kindle 3 - now renamed the Kindle Keyboard - rather than one with new technologies and features added.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, because the Kindle Keyboard was the best ebook reader on the market in terms of screen, book choice and price.

If you put the price of the US version out of mind, £89 really is cheap as chips for an ebook reader, especially one as accomplished as this.

As well as opening up ereaders to a new market, when the reader is priced this low you're less worried about taking it into environments where you might think twice about using expensive electronics, such as the bathroom or the beach. While not exactly disposable, it's not £500-worth of iPad to wreck either.

Amazon famously sells more books in Kindle ebook format than in print these days, and this price point is only going to accelerate that trend. Check out more information on kindle review on this site.
 

VeraSacRifice

macrumors newbie
Jun 7, 2012
1
0
The Kindle Fire is Amazon's first foray into the tablet market. Although it is still technically being promoted as an e-book reader, it can actually do a lot more than that. It is a fully functioning 7" full color touch screen device, capable of delivering not only books, but games, apps, video and a lot more. It's a great crossover between e-book reader and tablet, and at a very low cost. This Kindle Fire review will look at some of the main benefits and features of this wonderful device.

How Does the Kindle Fire Compare with Amazon's Previous Kindles?

The biggest difference between the Fire and previous incarnations of the Kindle is the function. The original Kindles (which are still the best e-book readers on the market) performed one function, and that was to enable the user to read books. They do have secondary functions such as on board mp3 players for audible books or music and a basic web browser, but that is all they are.

The Fire is different because it is more like an all in one mobile entertainment center. It takes book reading one step further, and provides a fantastic screen to enable magazine content reading as well.

So far, this Kindle Fire review has covered the basic specs, reading, videos and music. What else could it possibly offer? The other main use people have for their tablets is of course internet access. The Amazon Silk browser is nothing short of amazing and offers smooth and speedy browsing. It also supports Flash, so while your iPad using friends struggle on flash web sites, you'll be displaying them with no problems at all. For complete information you can read at kindle review
 
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