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An Inside Look at How iPads Are Assembled and Tested
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What would be classified as a westernised diet? I don't believe the majority of rich Chinese people would ditch their food and start eating burgers, pasta etc on a regular basis.
Foxconn worker gets paid $14/day and Apple has 100 billion they don't know what to do with. Something seems a bit off. 100,000,000,000 divided by 250k workers is $400000 per worker. Apple could at least give them an iPad and iPhone every year so they can enjoy what we have and that would come to about $150 million given Apple manufacturing cost of $300 per device.
Foxconn don't just make Apple products.
Foxconn is not owned by Apple. Are you saying McDonald's should give free Big Macs to every person in the supply chain?
Actually, yes. I have been there. Have you? Do I think a typical meal of dumplings and rice is as good as the typical chicken nuggets, fries and a super-sized coke. Yes. Much of what we have isn't even desired by citizens of China, two very good friends of mine, native Chinese and frequent travelers back home, don't prefer American style large homes or our food. They miss the communal living style and sense of family and closeness it brings. While they love living here in the states, they miss home very much. They find Americans greatly misunderstand their culture and values, and greatly underestimate the love Chinese people have for their quality and way of life.
My original point is in regard to all of the comments that judge a $14/day starting salary by American values and our cost of living. It is absolutely flawed.
Finally, as Americans have done over our history, the Chinese people are responsible for their quality of life, and what power they place in the hands of their government. Foxconn and Apple are not going to change an entire nation. But their higher quality working conditions and better facilities are only having a positive influence, as evidenced by the distance people travel to work there.
Good question. I don't want to get bogged down in too many details, but there I'll say this for now, it'll typically involve far more meat, especially red meat, far more processed foods, far more fat (especially fried foods), far larger portions and with more frequent snacks, and it will also involve eating a greater proportion of foods that are not grown locally. I can get far more precise, but this should suffice for now. If you press me I'll give you a more technical definition. Notice what is important here, it isn't so much the recipes that matter, but the type of consumption.
cost of living
A lot of people are making cost of living claims based on hearsay or possibly whatever number they think supports their argument. To get an idea of cost of living in China, look at this: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=China. To get a comparison, look at the same stats for the U.S. on the same site: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United States.
That should give the clearest idea of what this is worth. Also, does anyone know for sure (and can back it up with a source) that FoxConn pays for the housing for these folks? If so, that's an extra expense that ought to be considered in the wage. Also, how many hours/day is this wage for? When I was looking at possible offers for my last job, I seriously considered the 'extras' (e.g., health care, 401K matching, amenities) that weren't a part of the salary. Salary alone can be misleading.
A lot of people are making cost of living claims based on hearsay or possibly whatever number they think supports their argument. To get an idea of cost of living in China, look at this: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=China. To get a comparison, look at the same stats for the U.S. on the same site: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=United States.
That should give the clearest idea of what this is worth. Also, does anyone know for sure (and can back it up with a source) that FoxConn pays for the housing for these folks? If so, that's an extra expense that ought to be considered in the wage. Also, how many hours/day is this wage for? When I was looking at possible offers for my last job, I seriously considered the 'extras' (e.g., health care, 401K matching, amenities) that weren't a part of the salary. Salary alone can be misleading.
Type of consumption? You mean people can shove food up their arse too? The amount of consumption I think you mean
These rich Chinese men you refer to, are they still based in China? Rich Chinese business men will likely be travelling the world, so their diet will be whatever they can eat in a given country.
This is a whole separate discussion, though still interesting. I'd probably watch a documentary on that.
Why is that "shocking"? Do you know what $14 buys in China? Did you know that these workers have no housing costs?
very interesting video. thanks for sharing. everything likes fine in the video. not sure why so many people from FoxConn committed suicide.
eating habits
For those debating diets, it's hard to generalize, as people in different parts of the country and with different salaries tend to have very different diets, but here's a bit on the avg. U.S. diet: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB112671039063140472.html
and the average Chinese diet has actually been changing quite a bit as their economy has improved over the past 3 decades (due in large part to foreign companies employing their workers). Here's an interesting article on how the country is adapting its food supply: http://www.choicesmagazine.org/magazine/article.php?article=75
I had 2 Chinese roommates my freshman year of college. I've never seen anybody eat more noodles or soy sauce (and I've lived in 4 different countries), which seemed to make up the bulk of their diet. I'm sure others eat more rice, but these two ate noodles for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
For those debating diets, it's hard to generalize, as people in different parts of the country and with different salaries tend to have very different diets, but here's a bit on the avg. U.S. diet: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB112671039063140472.html
and the average Chinese diet has actually been changing quite a bit as their economy has improved over the past 3 decades (due in large part to foreign companies employing their workers). Here's an interesting article on how the country is adapting its food supply: http://www.choicesmagazine.org/magazine/article.php?article=75
I had 2 Chinese roommates my freshman year of college. I've never seen anybody eat more noodles or soy sauce (and I've lived in 4 different countries), which seemed to make up the bulk of their diet. I'm sure others eat more rice, but these two ate noodles for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
So next time we complain about how the new iPad is the same as the old iPad with the exception of a higher resolution screen, better processing power and a better camera, we should take a few seconds to think about the people who make them, and how they are probably not actually be able to afford one.
Where did you go, and for how long? Surely you haven't been everywhere in China. And depending on how long you were there and how much you saw, the worry is that your sample size is overly restricted.
Depends on how you compare what we have versus what they do. See some of my other posts to get a better sense of what I am suggesting. The diversity of our options is significantly different.
Who are these people? What do they do for a living, where do they live? Do they live 3-4 families per apartment like the Foxconn workers we are talking about, or do they enjoy one apartment per family like in America?
I agree there is much to be desired here, but there is a reason why the more affluent in China tend to procure larger spaces and avoid being packed in like sardines, even if they don't go to the extremes that Westerners will go to, to isolated themselves from everyone else.
I'm not disputing that the culture is a very rich one, one that we westerners can learn immensely from. I am saying that the poverty in China is immense and there are almost no direct parallels within our culture. I'm reminded throughout this discussion of my experience talking with Canadians about crime. They imagine their ghettos are pretty bad and that crime is a problem in their country. They identify their circumstances with those of Americans and talk as if they can relate. Yet hardly any of them have any real idea what it is like in the harsher areas in the US. It is not even remotely similar to the circumstances in the US. The scales are completely different. And I know this since I've lived in many cities across North America, talking to all sorts of people. But you can talk to people in Canada until they are blue in the face, it won't change their delusions until you actually make them visit the harsher areas in the US and see it first hand. I'd say it is the same here. For too many of us, until we actually see what it is like to live in Africa or China, and not in the rich Metropolises, we haven't a clue as to what we are really comparing.
Glad you mention your history. Have you forgotten how you industrialized? I guess if we throw morals out the windows we can gloat all we want... We conquered a land, pushing out its inhabitants and taking all the resources for our selves, all the while depending upon slave labor to build our infrastructure and supremacy. I'd wouldn't be so inclined to raise the history of the West as a badge of honor.
Agreed.
Of course not. But just because someone can't afford an iPad, iPhone and a MacBook Pro, and a convertible doesn't mean they are impoverished or slave like.
What they can do is demand higher standards from their contractors - which they already do, just not enough. I'm not sure why this is so difficult to understand that people have to come up with straw men.
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Some people in America don't even have this luxury.
1) Regarding the frequent references to "the work is boring and repetitive and that they are sometimes treated like machines," a lot work people do in many countries, first world to third world, belong in this category. The vast majority of the world population do this kind of work.
2) China has come a long way. Back in the late seventies, it is very common for the chinese government to allocate one pound of meat per family per month. This meat quota also includes the cooking oil!! To get this, once a month, people have to stand in line starting 5 A.M. Compare that to the lives of these workers and the money they earn, the place they live and the type of food they eat. It is hard even to compare.
2) China has come a long way. Back in the late seventies, it is very common for the chinese government to allocate one pound of meat per family per month. This meat quota also includes the cooking oil!! To get this, once a month, people have to stand in line starting 5 A.M. Compare that to the lives of these workers and the money they earn, the place they live and the type of food they eat. It is hard even to compare.
It is you who is coming up with the logical fallacy - that Apple is responsible for their supplier's workers, and that involves giving everyone a free iPad every year.
Sure. Keep calling my points straw man.
That place looks intense. I always wondered how they handled everything but nothing got dusty or fingermarked. I need gloves like that to use my iPad!
I'm not sure how this discussion got so focused on the wages. I kind of glossed over the conversation about whether $14/day is a living wage in China or not, but regardless of that, and what I take issue with, and what I think most people are concerned about, are the dangerous working conditions, poor living conditions in the dormitories, forced overtime, child labor, and worker suicides. These are human rights issues, and they are of equal concern wherever they occur, regardless of cultural differences between China and the United States. And we, as Apple customers who are concerned about these things, have a responsibility to pressure Apple to demand their contractors provide these things to their employees, as well as a living wage.
And remember, Apple has a nearly $100 billion cash hoard. They could easily, easily provide these things directly if they were so concerned.
Henry Ford made sure his employees could buy his cars, why can't Apple and Foxconn do the same? They will not only fulfilling their human rights responsibilities, but creating new markets for themselves.
Keep falling back on them and I will.
I didn't say Apple should give free iPads to Foxconn employees, I said they should demand higher standards. They already do this to some extent. They could do this to a greater extent. They could also pay Foxconn more money to ensure better working conditions and better pay, considering they are sitting on an unquestionably ginormous hoard of cash. That they are sitting on such a hoard and the people who make their products can't even afford to buy them is downright criminal.
I see this all the time. Not as great a percentage, no doubt. But saying it doesn't exist is silly.
We? What, are all of you from (either currently or ancestrally) from UK and southern Europe? Not all of us are.
It's really hard to understand what the points are supposed to be in this thread. No wonder there is so much straw, no one is saying anything valid.
Perhaps you should concern yourself with the USA first, then. Suicide rates are higher here.
Amazing how simple news stories can erupt in the minds of the under-informed.
correct!
Correct! I would imagine that the price of an iPad would be about 2500.00, if they were produced in the US.
Correct! I would imagine that the price of an iPad would be about 2500.00, if they were produced in the US.
Ah my bad, I got you and richard371 posts confused there.
Ok, sure, Apple has the power to make a difference, and Tim Cook is making a difference by making Foxconn's ongoings more transparent. You're right that Apple could pay Foxconn more money, but I don't know how much Apple pays already compared to other companies that use Foxconn.
Foxconn offers its employees some good perks compared to other factories, and now with the media spotlight shining so brightly on Foxconn, things will only get better. Apple's involvement is helping, and it doesn't always mean more money from Apple's pockets to help.
I think a lot of people think Apple can somehow magically improve the people of China's welfare simply by paying Foxconn more money.
It's downright criminal that the people making their products can't afford them? I've already made the comparison to people working in a car factory who can't afford one of the brand new off the line cars. Just because you work in a factory and happen to make an iPad, doesn't entitle you to one. The product you make is irrelevant.