Tablets Any Surface RT Owners ... Comments vs iPad?

[Night Spring]

Hence my other thread "Apple should respect the Surface Pro"

It has the MBA guts in a 2 lb, thin tablet package and offers the touch/type covers. I'll probably be selling my retina MBP and going with a Surface Pro/iMac combo from there on out...

I dunno. The Surface Pro screen is the same size as Surface RT, correct? If so, for me the screen would be a bit small to be workable as a laptop. And personally, I'd hate to trade the gorgeous screen of a retina MacBook for any other screen. I assume for you, portability is a bigger concern?

Of course, I'm really interested to see how well the Surface Pro works as a laptop replacement, but I tend to lean toward skeptical. There are all sorts of little details that add up to a overall "not quite there" impression. I suppose we'll see when it arrives.

 

[zhenya]

Yeah except no. It was those HP, and Lenovo tablets with the OS that should never be used that gained some fair adoption. Back then they were 4:3, until they went to 16:10, which is now what the business, and enterprise market still prefer after years of acceptance. Hence why the the HP Elitebook tablet is still 16:10 and most other business tablets too were 16:10 for a long while, until they were sort of forced by MS to make it 16:9 to support their new garbage OS, and it's snap feature.

You're missing the point. 'Business' tablet or not, NO other tablet until the iPad ever had significant penetration into the corporate market. The iPad has sold more units by orders of magnitude than every other tablet made before it combined. Given that, it's ridiculous to say that market prefers 16:10 when the iPad is 4:3. They prefer what works best, not a particular format.

 

[coldmack]

You're missing the point. 'Business' tablet or not, NO other tablet until the iPad ever had significant penetration into the corporate market. The iPad has sold more units by orders of magnitude than every other tablet made before it combined. Given that, it's ridiculous to say that market prefers 16:10 when the iPad is 4:3. They prefer what works best, not a particular format.

You do realize that most people(including the corporate world) don't even know the aspect ratio of the iPad, laptop, or even their TV. Many will say their TV is widescreen, while their iPad has a non-wide screen retina display. So, that doesn't necessarily mean it works best, but what Apple thinks is best. The business and enterprise market are still choosing 16:10 or else companies like HP would be making 16:9 business tablets like Lenovo, after doing focus groups(my friend was in one really shameful).

 

[zhenya]

You do realize that most people(including the corporate world) don't even know the aspect ratio of the iPad, laptop, or even their TV. Many will say their TV is widescreen, while their iPad has a non-wide screen retina display. So, that doesn't necessarily mean it works best, but what Apple thinks is best. The business and enterprise market are still choosing 16:10 or else companies like HP would be making 16:9 business tablets like Lenovo, after doing focus groups(my friend was in one really shameful).

Yes, hence my statement above -

They prefer what works best, not a particular format.

In other words they don't care about the screen aspect ratio, but what device works best.

 

[Jinzen]

Yes I have the Samsung ativ smart PC, it's got full windows on it.

For the record I just left the mall and was able to check out the surface RT in person. Very nice, physical form factor is ok but it feels thick (even though it isn't) kind of like how the iphone 4\4s feel thick because of the squared off design. The keyboard was great, the flat one worked very well but the type cover was SICK. I still wouldn't touch it as all the criticism I throw at iOS as being unnecessary I also believes applies to RT.

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Are you really using restricted flash and hanging web sites as your argument in favor of the iPad?!?! That's funny.

Yes, because if you can't do what the iPad can't do, you just have a much much worse imitation of an iPad with no Apps?

Is this somehow dfficult to grasp to you?

 

[DingleButt]

Yes, because if you can't do what the iPad can't do, you just have a much much worse imitation of an iPad with no Apps?

Is this somehow dfficult to grasp to you?

It cant do SOME of what the iPad cant do but it CAN do several things that the iPad cant (So you make the claim its not better). Thats why you are being stupid with your arguments. Just someone watching from the outside's opinion.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yes, because if you can't do what the iPad can't do, you just have a much much worse imitation of an iPad with no Apps?

Is this somehow dfficult to grasp to you?

I can't speak for the RT, but I have a Windows Pro tablet and I have been browsing flash sites this whole week with no issues, I'm still in shock over actually being able to see flash on a tablet. It works perfectly, and is the way the internet is meant to be viewed. I'm also not getting any hung up web pages at all, certainly not the case with the POS rendering of graphic heavy web pages on my ipad 3 where I sit there for several seconds while it loads up graphics, then each time I scroll down it takes several seconds to load those graphics up again.

Auto brightness does suck, I'll grant you that, I turned it off. But it never worked in my ipad either, it's turned off there as well.

Kindle app? It works perfectly for me.

As for apps I won't argue on the RT side, but I think the Windows marketplace will fill up pretty quickly. The big name apps will come, but otherwise Apples app marketplace is incredibly blown up. Most of the apps are so niche, or repeated that it's obvious the number is overblown and hyped. There was even a recent study which showed that 400,000 apps have never even been downloaded !!! Still, the apple store does have more apps, but give it some time and we will see. Of course when we switch over to Windows Pro the app argument gets completely demolished when you have access to "real" programs. Personally the more I use my windows tablet the more I begin to hate "apps", watered down dumbified versions of programs, I find myself turning to the desktop version of programs more often even if there is a metro equivalent.

 

[Night Spring]

I can't speak for the RT, but I have a Windows Pro tablet

>snip<

I find myself turning to the desktop version of programs more often even if there is a metro equivalent.

Does your tablet have a keyboard/trackpad, or are you using the desktop programs by touch only? If you do use touch, how is that working out?

 

[spinedoc77]

Does your tablet have a keyboard/trackpad, or are you using the desktop programs by touch only? If you do use touch, how is that working out?

I use both. Sometimes I'm at my breakfast bar and I it connected to a Logitech mouse and the apple Bluetooth keyboard. Usually though I'm on the sofa or in bed and use the touch. Desktop using touch works well, but only for a couple of reasons. First I set the DPI to 125%, that helps a ton. 2nd in very cursor heavy programs I will use the built in stylus, for example in photoshop this works extremely well.

Of course the Metro programs are easier to use and I was just generalizing. But it seems there are 2 classes of metro programs, the ones which the developer painstakingly gives them all the functionality of the desktop version but gears them towards a touch interface, this is like Microsoft with their Office programs which are very nice in Metro. The other type is the program which "dumbifies" everything for the sake of being touch oriented, sacrificing many features of the desktop program.

 

[Black Magic]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49551054

Looking at the video embedded in the article, Steve Ballmer taps the News app on the Surface and it took an embarrassing long time for the information to come up. In fact, he started swiping to get out of the app and his swipes didn't register before finally the info displayed. Anyone with a Surface experiencing the same?

 

[TheHateMachine]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49551054

Looking at the video embedded in the article, Steve Ballmer taps the News app on the Surface and it took an embarrassing long time for the information to come up. In fact, he started swiping to get out of the app and his swipes didn't register before finally the info displayed. Anyone with a Surface experiencing the same?

When the device is on a fresh boot all the metro apps take a little longer than usual to load on the first time. I've never had the swipe menus not appear during a load though.

 

[Jinzen]

It cant do SOME of what the iPad cant do but it CAN do several things that the iPad cant (So you make the claim its not better). Thats why you are being stupid with your arguments. Just someone watching from the outside's opinion.

Ok, let's put it this way.

It does EVERYTHING tablet related worse than the iPad.

It does EVERYTHING PC related worse than a laptop.

It's a full compromise and provides no actual significant benefits. It cant replace a computer and its awful as a tablet.

As a typer or netbook, it's overpriced. And doesn't even run Windows apps in a pinch.

So yea, no, RT is awful.

 

[pesos]

Ok, let's put it this way.

It does EVERYTHING tablet related worse than the iPad.

It does EVERYTHING PC related worse than a laptop.

It's a full compromise and provides no actual significant benefits. It cant replace a computer and its awful as a tablet.

As a typer or netbook, it's overpriced. And doesn't even run Windows apps in a pinch.

So yea, no, RT is awful.

None of your assertions are true.

 

[spinedoc77]

Ok, let's put it this way.

It does EVERYTHING tablet related worse than the iPad.

It does EVERYTHING PC related worse than a laptop.

It's a full compromise and provides no actual significant benefits. It cant replace a computer and its awful as a tablet.

As a typer or netbook, it's overpriced. And doesn't even run Windows apps in a pinch.

So yea, no, RT is awful.

I'm a huge Microsoft fan, I sold my MacBook air and bought a Windows 8 Pro tablet and plan on selling both my ipads. But even I have to admit that RT is a mistake and IMO it will flop hard and has the chance to bring Windows Pro down with it.

I don't agree that the ipad does much better than RT, at least its core functions of web browsing and media consumption, but the only thing RT has going for it is Office. Additionally the ipad is the same compromise from a laptop as RT, more so when you consider Office so I don't see that as a valid point.

But you are right RT cannot replace a computer, but neither can the ipad. RT isn't awful as a tablet, it just doesn't have anything that will pull anyone away from Android or iOS. I'll say it again, RT was a huge mistake on MS part. If they came out strong with Windows 8 Pro tablets priced right and if they just integrated the tablet and desktop UI's a little bit more they would have swept the market. But what will probably happen is the RT will fade into Zune-land and windows 8 pro tablets will have moderate success probably eating into Android more than iOS.

 

[smellysox8]

Here is a pretty thorough review:

Pay attention at 7:15

 

[Jinzen]

I'm a huge Microsoft fan, I sold my MacBook air and bought a Windows 8 Pro tablet and plan on selling both my ipads. But even I have to admit that RT is a mistake and IMO it will flop hard and has the chance to bring Windows Pro down with it.

I don't agree that the ipad does much better than RT, at least its core functions of web browsing and media consumption, but the only thing RT has going for it is Office. Additionally the ipad is the same compromise from a laptop as RT, more so when you consider Office so I don't see that as a valid point.

But you are right RT cannot replace a computer, but neither can the ipad. RT isn't awful as a tablet, it just doesn't have anything that will pull anyone away from Android or iOS. I'll say it again, RT was a huge mistake on MS part. If they came out strong with Windows 8 Pro tablets priced right and if they just integrated the tablet and desktop UI's a little bit more they would have swept the market. But what will probably happen is the RT will fade into Zune-land and windows 8 pro tablets will have moderate success probably eating into Android more than iOS.

You're saying RT is a gigantic fail and that the iPad, possibly the most incredibly successful device in the last decade, isn't better?

Nope, lack of Office aside - the iPad has any and every app that makes up for a feature or of Office on Surface. It can't replicate a mouse cursor or a file system desktop, but otherwise, we'll see office come to iPad shortly anyway.

On the hardware front, it's quite a disgrace. Best in class SoC (A6x) and display, camera, and battery life... Vs Surface that struggles to do anything and falls behind in all those categories.

 

[pesos]

I'm a huge Microsoft fan, I sold my MacBook air and bought a Windows 8 Pro tablet and plan on selling both my ipads. But even I have to admit that RT is a mistake and IMO it will flop hard and has the chance to bring Windows Pro down with it.

I don't agree that the ipad does much better than RT, at least its core functions of web browsing and media consumption, but the only thing RT has going for it is Office. Additionally the ipad is the same compromise from a laptop as RT, more so when you consider Office so I don't see that as a valid point.

But you are right RT cannot replace a computer, but neither can the ipad. RT isn't awful as a tablet, it just doesn't have anything that will pull anyone away from Android or iOS. I'll say it again, RT was a huge mistake on MS part. If they came out strong with Windows 8 Pro tablets priced right and if they just integrated the tablet and desktop UI's a little bit more they would have swept the market. But what will probably happen is the RT will fade into Zune-land and windows 8 pro tablets will have moderate success probably eating into Android more than iOS.

The RT could absolutely be a sole computing device for the right person. Office suite/email/calendar/web browsing/media/movies/printing/full file system/usb port. I would have killed for one as my sole computing device in college.

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And you are a flat out liar or just willfully ignorant. No surprise either way as you are trying to refute such patently prima facie facts of x86 incompatibility, complete dearth of apps, performance issues, etc.

Hmm, I don't see x86 compatibility on the iPad either, maybe I'm not looking hard enough. Send me a link, bro, I must be missing it!

Complete dearth of apps? There are plenty of apps, and a ton more coming. The OS is officially a week old lol. Did you pan the iPhone the week after it was released for not having enough apps? Hilarious.

The performance issues discussed in a couple of idiotic reviews stem from people not having run updates. Points deducted from M$ for not having the final version of Office on the shipped devices as opposed to pushing it out via an update. Other than that, the thing performs beautifully. Unlike you, I can speak from experience having put it through its paces.

If you want to have a real conversation about the pros and cons of both devices, as many others here do and are, let's go for it. But to make comments as ridiculous as "it does EVERYTHING tablet related worse than an ipad" and "EVERYTHING pc related worse than a laptop" simply shows that you have no interest in doing so.

 

[smellysox8]

Ok, let's put it this way.

It does EVERYTHING tablet related worse than the iPad.

It does EVERYTHING PC related worse than a laptop.

It's a full compromise and provides no actual significant benefits. It cant replace a computer and its awful as a tablet.

As a typer or netbook, it's overpriced. And doesn't even run Windows apps in a pinch.

So yea, no, RT is awful.

This is coming from a guy who has never touched a Surface RT.

 

[spinedoc77]

You're saying RT is a gigantic fail and that the iPad, possibly the most incredibly successful device in the last decade, isn't better?

Nope, lack of Office aside - the iPad has any and every app that makes up for a feature or of Office on Surface. It can't replicate a mouse cursor or a file system desktop, but otherwise, we'll see office come to iPad shortly anyway.

On the hardware front, it's quite a disgrace. Best in class SoC (A6x) and display, camera, and battery life... Vs Surface that struggles to do anything and falls behind in all those categories.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Pages doesn't even come close to the functionality of the entire Office package, and having mouse and keyboard support streamline working with Office type programs immensely. The whole app ecosystem is overblown, a huge amount of apps don't even sell, there are a ridiculous amount of repeat apps, even with that there are a lot more apps than on RT so I won't say that's not a valid point, just overblown especially since RT is young just as iOS was at one time.

Hardware I don't know, I have only used RT for half an hour or so at the MS booth. It ran all the Office apps smoothly with no issues, it browsed websites with no issue, but I'll let other users with more RT hardware experience chime in there. I do know that my ipad3 really really sucks at web browsing, give it a graphic heavy webpage and it stutters and loads slowly initially AND every time I scroll down, it's outright awful.

But at the end of the day I agree with you, but for different reasons. RT is terrible and will fail, I just hope it fails quickly and without fanfare so Pro can step up.

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The RT could absolutely be a sole computing device for the right person. Office suite/email/calendar/web browsing/media/movies/printing/full file system/usb port. I would have killed for one as my sole computing device in college.
.

I don't disagree with you, if the ipad never existed and more importantly if Windows 8 Pro tablets never existed then it would have been a killer package. Unfortunately the ipad is much more popular and RT won't be compelling to pull people away from it, and even if it was Windows 8 Pro is priced virtually the same so I'm having a hard time seeing Microsofts strategy. Even OEM's like Asus are shying away from making RT tablets.

 

[dmelgar]

Nope, lack of Office aside - the iPad has any and every app that makes up for a feature or of Office on Surface. It can't replicate a mouse cursor or a file system desktop, but otherwise, we'll see office come to iPad shortly anyway.

iPad has Numbers, Pages and Keynote. They're not as powerful as Office, but they are designed for a touch screen and don't require a keyboard.

 

[Renzatic]

And you are a flat out liar or just willfully ignorant. No surprise either way as you are trying to refute such patently prima facie facts of x86 incompatibility, complete dearth of apps, performance issues, etc.

What performance issues? Apps do take a bit to load when you first fire them up, but they also do on the iPad. I've seen Facebook app take upwards of 15 seconds to load on my 3.

Oh, and Safari freezing for 3-4 seconds while it loads heavy webpages.

...and apps crashing. I can't use Pages without it kicking me to the springboard at least twice per session.

The iPad must be terrible, too. EVERYTHING SUCKS! I HATE IT ALL!

Dearth of apps? Yeah, things are a bit slim pickings over in the Marketplace at the moment, but it's not terrible. I'd put it roughly on par with the iPhone when it first gained access to app store 4 years ago.

One thing I can agree with is the RT doesn't offer any super compelling reason to choose it over the iPad at the moment. It's neat, but I don't see myself wanting to ditch my iPad for one, neat keyboard or not.

That said, it's not a bad device. Far from it. It's fantastic for a first rev, sports some great ideas that could make it more comfortable to use than an ipad for heavier work, and has the promise of offering even better things over the horizon.

iPad has Numbers, Pages and Keynote. They're not as powerful as Office, but they are designed for a touch screen and don't require a keyboard.

Let me give you an example of what it's like to use Pages without a keyboard.

a...n...d....t...h...e...n...I...s...a...i...d...t...o...M...a...b...l...e...

"...Crap. I messed something up a couple paragraphs back. I'll just use my finger to place my cursor right...there...no...there...no...DAMNIT...no...you son of a...THERE! FINALLY"!

It's got a great touchscreen interface, but there's no way in HELL I'd use it without my keyboard.

 

[spinedoc77]

Interesting, Anandtech's RT review notes just how fast and smooth the Surface RT is. He does note the first time opening a program is slow, but after that subsequent openings are instant. I still don't like RT, but at least we can move on past the fabricated hardware deficiencies.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review

 

[faroZ06]

The OS looks like a stinky mess, but I like how you can connect a mouse to it. Wired USB isn't the way to go with tablets, but a Bluetooth mouse would be good. Why not have the ability to use Bluetooth mice with devices that already have Bluetooth?

 

[Renzatic]

The OS looks like a stinky mess, but I like how you can connect a mouse to it. Wired USB isn't the way to go with tablets, but a Bluetooth mouse would be good. Why not have the ability to use Bluetooth mice with devices that already have Bluetooth?

You can. That video posted in the other RT thread shows a guy doing just that. First he plugs it up on USB, then fires it up on Bluetooth.

edit: Er. I mean this thread.

 

[faroZ06]

iPad has Numbers, Pages and Keynote. They're not as powerful as Office, but they are designed for a touch screen and don't require a keyboard.

I use iWork on my Mac. What I've experienced:

Pages isn't as powerful as Word, but it's more stable and always, ALWAYS works. Word, on the other hand, occasionally causes major frustration with its strange issues. The missing features aren't really needed, so that aspect is no deal-breaker. So it has replaced Word for me.

Keynote just kills and eats Powerpoint. It's better than it in every way. 101% satisfied.

Numbers is a bit easier to use and more stable than Excel, but it lacks some big, important features. It especially sucks with graphs. It's just really lame. I'm majorly disappointed in this joke of a spreadsheet app. I typically use Excel when I need to deal with spreadsheets. Considering how low my expectations are for Microsoft, this is a major fail on Apple's part.

All of these are in the Apple ecosystem, which is a little better for me since I'm a Mac/iPhone user. Too bad Snow Leopard doesn't @#$%ing work with iCloud!

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You can. That video posted in the other RT thread shows a guy doing just that. First he plugs it up on USB, then fires it up on Bluetooth.

edit: Er. I mean this thread.

That's good. What I'm complaining about is how iOS devices don't officially support Bluetooth mice; I didn't doubt that the Surface supports it. Hopefully, Apple will add it now that some competitors have it.