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ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,601
1,737
Redondo Beach, California
I want to maintain a usable physical file structure so when I stop using Aperture (notice that I say when and not if - it is unlikely that Aperture will be the best of breed photo management system 25 years from now) I can copy over my files without any issues to whatever new OS/application makes sense at the time.

Aperture can export your library into a system of folders. You have a lot of control over how the export is done, the why the folders are named and the way the fioles are named inside the folders. f the time ever comes it is easy to just export everything, metadata and all.

If you want to keep your files in plain folders then you are best to abandon Aperure now not later. You should be using a program like Adobe Camera Raw and Adobe Bridge. These worktoget exactly and do exactly what you want. You can design a workflow that uses Aperure and mimincs that way Adobe camer Raw works but yo'd be giving up most of what makes Aperure atractive.

Another way to say it is that Aperure "works" if you are willing use it to way it is intented to be used. If you dan't want to make the jump you are best off not jumping. Aperture is a "workflow" program, Assest manager and non-destructive RAW file adjuster that can interface with Photoshop and iLife. If you don't like Aperure's workflow, and don't want to let it manage your digial assests why use it? I think Bridge and ACR might fit your needs

The problem here is that any non-destructive editor like Aperture that uses raw files has to keep your edit instructions in a database and i has to know where the raw files are. As soon as you move a raw file you loose your edits. No way around this. (other then to work with raster files like PSD, TIFF or JPG.
 

stcanard

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2003
1,485
0
Vancouver
1) How do I create a new folder in Aperture so that it is also created as a real folder in Finder

In 1.5 after you do the move you choose relocate masters, and it will rearrange the physical structure for you. I assume it works the same in 2

2) When I move images from my 'to sort' folder to another new or existing folder using drag and drop in Aperture, it leaves a copy of the image in 'to sort'. I want to move the images completely out of 'to sort' and into the other folder, with that also happening to the actual files in Finder at the same time.

I've never tried this because I let aperture import directly off my memory card into a set of referenced directories. Maybe if you option-drag or command-drag?
 

kudukudu

macrumors regular
Oct 24, 2007
198
4
Aperture can export your library into a system of folders. You have a lot of control over how the export is done, the why the folders are named and the way the fioles are named inside the folders. f the time ever comes it is easy to just export everything, metadata and all.

Another thing that scares me with aperture is that it doesn't keep the database that houses metadata/edits/etc. at arms length form the files themselves. Having a corrupted Aperture database should never result in losing your originals, it should only result in losing your edits/metadata/etc. It seems like a number of people have had problems with this, e.g. http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-84890.html
 

stcanard

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2003
1,485
0
Vancouver
Another thing that scares me with aperture is that it doesn't keep the database that houses metadata/edits/etc. at arms length form the files themselves. Having a corrupted Aperture database should never result in losing your originals, it should only result in losing your edits/metadata/etc. It seems like a number of people have had problems with this, e.g. http://forums.macosxhints.com/archive/index.php/t-84890.html

You can always just open the package and grab the raw files, but IMO you're wasting Aperture if you're not using referenced masters, in which case they are completely separate from the Library.

You should never lose a raw file with Aperture.
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
No matter how you do it, migrating Libraries from one app to the next will be a lot of work -- independent of whether you can just `copy the files as is'. Most of the work lies in making adjustments, tagging files and sorting them (e. g. adding them to several albums, etc.) -- none of this happens on the level of the Finder, independently of the app you use.

I've had to redo about 100 work hours of tagging when I chose to migrate from iView Media Pro to Aperture. Just look at the abundance of threads on `I want to move from Lightroom to Aperture/Aperture to Lightroom threads'. You will have to do a lot of these things by hand. Again, this is not a peculiarity of Aperture.
 

SeanChandler

macrumors newbie
Apr 14, 2004
19
0
Calgary, Alberta Canada
in-progress and completed work

I am also evaluating Aperture, having just downloaded the trial of A2

My business is real estate virtual tours and still photography

Currently I use the Bridge (CS3) to rename and add keywords to images - I find it slow to apply keywords and meta-info on my Imac Core Duo with 2Gb of RAM - also slow to move and copy files

I also use the Tools > Photoshop > Image Processor option to batch resize images which I then stitch using RealViz -using fullsize images really slows RV down

I import photos from my camera's memory card to a folder that I create in the Finder - (jobID#-client-location-date)

From there I create subfolders for still and vt photos, then rooms in the house:

jobs in progress > (jobID#-client-location-date) > (vt originals) > (master bedroom) - etc

Once a job is complete, then the entire folder is moved to Completed jobs, (external FW drive)and eventually burned to DVD for archiving, and I then use CD Finder to catalog my DVD's

To get to the point - I apologize for the long post but I find that people asking questions often provide very little info to help others answer their queries:

Will Aperture allow me the same flexibility as far as resizing images to suit my processing (RealViz) and archiving (moving folders to Completed Jobs and burning to DVD)

And can I manage all this on external drives - I want to keep only current work on my Imac HDD to stop it from filling up and making my superduper backups take forever

Thanks for any input - getting a little frustrated with Bridge
 

kudukudu

macrumors regular
Oct 24, 2007
198
4
You can always just open the package and grab the raw files, but IMO you're wasting Aperture if you're not using referenced masters, in which case they are completely separate from the Library.

You should never lose a raw file with Aperture.

I am curious why you say you'ree wasting aperture if you're not using referenced masters. I read the appropriate chapter in the aperture user manual on this topic last night and obviously there is less work for the user if you let aperture suck your pictures into the aperture library. From the other stuff you were saying in this thread I would have expected you to recommend managed files.

On another note I looked at the show package contents on both the aperture library and the projects within it and while I could find thumbnails, previews of all my files, I could not find the masters themselves. Do you know what subdirectory in a project aperture normally files originals?
 

stcanard

macrumors 65816
Oct 19, 2003
1,485
0
Vancouver
I am curious why you say you'ree wasting aperture if you're not using referenced masters. I read the appropriate chapter in the aperture user manual on this topic last night and obviously there is less work for the user if you let aperture suck your pictures into the aperture library. From the other stuff you were saying in this thread I would have expected you to recommend managed files.

Okay, in the light of day, I will back off that statement a bit :) The primary reason is that eventually your photo library is going to grow outside the size of the amount of disks you want to stick inside a computer and your backup system, and you're going to have to either start a new library which you're switching between, or some massive reorganization.

As for why I feel so strongly about referenced, I need to explain how I'm using my system: I do my primary image management on a laptop, with an external drive plugged in.

My library sits on my internal (tiny) drive, all the raw files are organized on the external drive. Aperture actually does suck all the files in for me, you don't need to manually copy. For my import Settings I set Store Files: (a local directory), Copy Files, Subfolders: Project name.

Now when I plug my camera in, I create a project, import the photos and Aperture automatically creates a directory in my referenced structure and imports the photos into there, no manual operations.

For all photos I want an original and a backup at all times

1) I create a directory on my internal hard drive: Backup<x> (x is the number of the disk it will be backed up to)

2) Whenever I import Aperture creates a folder Backup<x>/<Project Name> and copies the files into there -- this allows me to work on any current projects without having the external drive plugged in all the time.

3) During this time my regular backups take care of storing this working directory on a file server, so everything stays backed up

4) At some point (typically when I hit ~ 4GB) I burn a DVD with the contents of the folder, put that in an external location, and move all the project directories to my external drive, and use "Manage Referenced Files" to quickly reconnect them


I find this to be a very useful workflow that allows me to always be backed up and organized, without carrying around the external drive. When this one fills up I will just plug in a new drive and keep going, with a single Library I don't have to flip between.

There comes an added bonus -- I've set the previews to be no larger than the native resolution of my screen, and decent quality. All of those previews remain accessible in my library even when the drive is unplugged, so I can take the laptop anywhere and do a sildeshow without carrying that drive. In this way I currently have 23G of raw files, and can show all of them while only taking up 2G of space on my drive. It is like the best of both worlds -- I shoot only in raw but don't take the disk space or convenience penalty.

So essentially I get a infinitely growing library, with minimal disk requirements, and very easily manageable backups that don't require me to constantly have drives plugged in. Management-wise the only part that is additional work over a managed library is the step of burning the DVD and moving the masters -- but I don't know what I would do for that second backup otherwise.

Of course that just works for my workflow :)

Do you know what subdirectory in a project aperture normally files originals?

Oops. I may have made a mistake of assuming something that wasn't true! I poked in and can't find any location either. I guess that's another reason for referenced masters!
 

ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,601
1,737
Redondo Beach, California
Will Aperture allow me the same flexibility as far as resizing images to suit my processing (RealViz) and archiving (moving folders to Completed Jobs and burning to DVD)

And can I manage all this on external drives - I want to keep only current work on my Imac HDD to stop it from filling up and making my superduper backups take forever

If you wanted to use Aperture without forcing your bridge based workflow onto it. This is what so many people try and do: force their old workflow onto Aperture then complain how awkward that is.

Using Aperture you would create a "project" for each house. Projects are where the actual image files live. They also contain any adjustments you made to the files. Physically the raw image files can live inside or outside of Aperture's library but logically the are concidered inside a "project"

As disks fill up or as you decide to move data around between computers the project is the basic unit that you move. When you export a project Aperure builds a self-contained "bundle" with the raw files, edits of the files and any adjustments and all your meta-data and makes a "bundle. So as you finished work on a house you might export the project and then archive the project-bundle in a big HD, some DVDs or whatever.

The track your work in Aperture you would not want to move files between folders. You would tag the work as "complete" with a meta-data tag or keyword. Then you might have some "smart folders" that are "told" to look for work that is tagged as "complete". You can have any number of smart containers that look for different stuff. I have some for "underwater macro shots with four orfive star rating" I might have another for "invertibrates" then as I tag my shots they automatically sort into the right place. But only pointers are plced in the smart folders the actual file live in projects.
 

kudukudu

macrumors regular
Oct 24, 2007
198
4
Oops. I may have made a mistake of assuming something that wasn't true! I poked in and can't find any location either. I guess that's another reason for referenced masters!

okay I found my photos. I didn't realize that aperture actually has 3 options when importing photos, not two as I had assumed. The options are:

1) store files in the aperture library (managed images)
2) store files in their current location (referenced images)
3) store files in "pictures"

I just found all of my photos in the pictures subdirectory organized by /year/month/ that was auto-generated by aperture when I chose the option of organizing photos by image year/month under the subfolders options in the import screen. The only stuff in the aperture library are thumbnails, edits, etc.

I am assuming that aperture treats option 3 as a referenced image/master as well. I think if I stick with Aperture I will go with this option since I don't like the idea of having my originals stored in any kind of database like structure that can become corrupted, but I do like the idea of having my photos organized chronologically in a file structure.
 
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