Apple Accused of 'iPad' Trademark Infringement in China

[Ciclismo]

It is irrelevant whether or not China produces Counterfeits. If a company made "fake" iPads, it is Apple's duty to proceed with legal actions.

Conversely, Apple has infringed on a patent. It is now the Jury's and respective lawyers to work out.
I mean come on, USA- people sue MacDonald's for making them fat or by spilling coffee on themselves. Compare this to a patent infringement.

Oh and for those poorly educated people generalising all of China's population as stealers and counterfeiters; please, please go back to college and open up your mind a tad more.

No I am not Chinese. -_-"

Firstly, it's a copyright violation, not a patent issue. Whole different kettle of fish - Apple did not steal any technology, nor use it without respecting a patent. They just happen to have a product whose name was legally protected by another company first for mainland China (I say this because there was no mention of a lawsuit when the iPad went on sale in Hong Kong weeks before the mainland got it).

Secondly, the generalisations you speak of are a misinterpretation of the use of the term "the Chinese", by which not the individual citizens are referred to in a sweeping generalisation, but the sovereign state (i.e. China) and those members of the state who are being protected by said state through corrupt channels as a result of the wealth generated by counterfeiting and intellectual property theft, something the Chinese government is also comlicit in.

The federal program principally aims to support German companies being targeted by spies from foreign secret service agencies. And on that front, at least, the suspects are still from the other side of the Cold War era divide..."If you're asking me to name names, the intelligence services in two countries in particular spring to mind: Russia and China..." Even explained.

Organizations engaged in spying activities are generally after technology and knowhow, which, according to Berthold Stoppelkamp of the Working Committee on Security and Economy, are extremely valuable sources of capital for the German economy.

"The actual financial damage caused is in the region of 20 billion euros ($24.5 billion)," Stoppelkamp pointed out.[More recent estimates are around the €50 Billion for Germany alone]

Source: DW TV

There are countless cases of companies who are shocked to find products that they have developed are being offered by Chinese companies at trade-fairs in Europe. The Austrian faccade company Reider recently caught a gentleman who they were leading around their factory, believing him to be a genuine businessman with whom they were going to strike a business deal with, recording secretly with a camer hidden in his pants (thankfully the lens was pointed outwards).

China is only digging its own grave here - more and more companies are erring on the side of caution and actively avoid doing business in China, not just with the Chinese. Many high-end electronic items are now only assembled in China, not manufactured (e.g. Sony PSP - all parts made in Japan, Taiwan and Korea, and only assembled like a little Lego kitset in China). China needs to foster invention and innovation through business develpment programmes and education, not theft of IP in order to get a leg up.

 

[nastebu]

China is only digging its own grave here - more and more companies are erring on the side of caution and actively avoid doing business in China, not just with the Chinese. Many high-end electronic items are now only assembled in China, not manufactured (e.g. Sony PSP - all parts made in Japan, Taiwan and Korea, and only assembled like a little Lego kitset in China). China needs to foster invention and innovation through business develpment programmes and education, not theft of IP in order to get a leg up.

Hmmm...

China's 2010 3rd quarter economic growth: 9.6%
The United States' 2010 3rd quarter economic growth: 2.0%
Japan's 2010 3rd quarter economic growth: 0.4%

I'm pretty sure business types in China aren't very worried. At this point, we need them to give us a leg up more than they need us for that.

 

[Ciclismo]

Hmmm...

China's 2010 3rd quarter economic growth: 9.6%
The United States' 2010 3rd quarter economic growth: 2.0%
Japan's 2010 3rd quarter economic growth: 0.4%

I'm pretty sure business types in China aren't very worried. At this point, we need them to give us a leg up more than they need us for that.

I'm referring to long term economic impact (20+ years) not just a couple of months. Countries tend to be around a lot longer than next quarter, except maybe in the former Soviet block, and because capitalism (even under the guise of socialism) is short sighted, it is up to the government to ensure that business strategies are sustainable in the long run.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Oh, this is rich: the Chinese--you know, the land of unlimited bootlegging, counterfeits and knock-offs--are complaining that someone is infringing THEIR intellectual property rights? Of all the dashed hypocrisy...

Agreeed! F$##$$K off China!

 

[SR2]

You guys are a bunch of ****ing retards that don't even know WTF they're arguing about. The only thing you know how to do is suck Steve Jobs dick.

 

[nastebu]

I'm referring to long term economic impact (20+ years) not just a couple of months. Countries tend to be around a lot longer than next quarter, except maybe in the former Soviet block, and because capitalism (even under the guise of socialism) is short sighted, it is up to the government to ensure that business strategies are sustainable in the long run.

Hmmm...

China's average annual rate of economic growth from 1989-2010: 9.3%
The United States' average annual rate of economic growth from 1947-2010: 3.31%
Japan's average annual rate of economic growth from 1980-2010: .55%

That's 20+ years of economic impact.

 

[Ciclismo]

Hmmm...

China's average annual rate of economic growth from 1989-2010: 9.3%
The United States' average annual rate of economic growth from 1947-2010: 3.31%
Japan's average annual rate of economic growth from 1980-2010: .55%

That's 20+ years of economic impact.

History is not a great predictor for current or future economic trends, the analysis is considerably more complex. It's the same as arguing that because your neighbour has made it to 75 years old with no major health issues, that you expect him to continue to age to 150.

Instead you need to look at how the economy is currently developing, as well as trends in related economies. And one of these trends is that increasingly companies who traditionally would have had goods produced in China are now looking for alternatives as the short term (i.e. production) cost benefits diminish as companies become increasingly aware of the long term impact of such things as IP theft, but also environmental issues (China has a horroid environmental policy where it is cheaper to pollute and pay the small fines than to implement propper procedures, and freight cannot be shipped in a carbon neutral,non-polluting fashion yet) as well as quality concerns.

A company I used to work for has reduced their product line that is manufactured in China considerably due to the high defect rate. Usually the first shipment would be fine, but the next shipment could have a defect as high as 35% (with the odd case of a 100% defective shipment because wrong parts were welded, or welded incorrectly, on an entire product range). If you tried to return the defect goods, youd find that the comapny no longer exists and that there is a different name on the door of the factory - even though all the employees and owners were still the same. A representative from a partner company in Europe has told me that they have experienced the same thing, and that they are in the process of moving the bulk of their manufacturing back to Europe as the long term costs involved in production in China start to increase, while consumer behaviour is starting to shift from quantity back to quality.

You also need to remember that these growth figures are based on information that has been manipulated by the Chinese government, which considerably undermines their reliability.

 

[nastebu]

History is not a great predictor for current or future economic trends, the analysis is considerably more complex. It's the same as arguing that because your neighbour has made it to 75 years old with no major health issues, that you expect him to continue to age to 150.

Wait, first you said that one quarter showed no history, and now you argue that history is no indicator? What kind of evidence will convince you that China is a very strong, quickly emerging, economic power?

How about the fact that it surpassed Japan this year for the world's second largest? How about if both the US and China's economies continues for the next 20 years as they have the last twenty years, China's economy will be bigger than the US's in 2025? (unlikely, but possible)

Instead you need to look at how the economy is currently developing, as well as trends in related economies. And one of these trends is that increasingly companies who traditionally would have had goods produced in China are now looking for alternatives as the short term (i.e. production) cost benefits diminish as companies become increasingly aware of the long term impact of such things as IP theft, but also environmental issues (China has a horroid environmental policy where it is cheaper to pollute and pay the small fines than to implement propper procedures, and freight cannot be shipped in a carbon neutral,non-polluting fashion yet) as well as quality concerns.

Yup. They are also way ahead of us in investing in green technologies such as solar power and high speed trains. Japan likewise had the same period of environmentally destructive development, but turned it around in the 1970s.

A company I used to work for has reduced their product line that is manufactured in China considerably due to the high defect rate. Usually the first shipment would be fine, but the next shipment could have a defect as high as 35% (with the odd case of a 100% defective shipment because wrong parts were welded, or welded incorrectly, on an entire product range). If you tried to return the defect goods, youd find that the comapny no longer exists and that there is a different name on the door of the factory - even though all the employees and owners were still the same. A representative from a partner company in Europe has told me that they have experienced the same thing, and that they are in the process of moving the bulk of their manufacturing back to Europe as the long term costs involved in production in China start to increase, while consumer behaviour is starting to shift from quantity back to quality.

No offense, but this is anecdote not evidence. "You've heard" and "my company" means little. Here's a pretty neutral view of things: http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/oct2007/gb20071016_143714.htm

It's worth remembering that China's biggest future market isn't the West, Japan, or the rest of Asia. It's internal. Our economy (I mean the United States) desperately needs cheap Chinese capital and cheap Chinese consumer goods to grow. China only needs to develop their own internal market to keep growing.

You also need to remember that these growth figures are based on information that has been manipulated by the Chinese government, which considerably undermines their reliability.

What do you base that idea on? Here are international GDP's sourced from the IMF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Find a source that questions those numbers and I'll let the IMF know they're wrong.

 

[Ciclismo]

All that I am pointing out is that historical data shows trends (e.g. that the economy has grown), but it cannot predict them. Simply relying on one historical trend to indicate future growth ignores the complexity of a situation. This is my point.

Let me make this crystal clear: At no time did I question the current growth of China's economy, nor its current size, just its sustainability in the long term. How much money you made yesterday may help you predict tomorrow, but not next week, month, year or decade. You need to look at multiple issues, and therefore other data than just GDP trends to make future predictions

Although China's economy in terms of GDP may have surpassed Japan's, this is most likely due to the absolute size difference. In terms of innovation, however, there is a huge difference between the two; China files only a fraction of the number of patents of the top 5 economies:

While the total number of applications to the EPO from China remains small (roughly 5 000 compared to 27 000 from the United States), most experts believe that Chinese applications will soon make up a much larger portion.

EPO, 2009

In 2009, for example, 35,501 patents were filed in the US by Japanese residents (be it individuals or companies), whereas China (both PRC and Hong Kong together) only filed 1,960 for the same period. To put this into perspective, Israel, with a population of barely more than 7.6 million people filed 1,404 patents in the US in the same period.

USPO, 2009

This suggests to me that the Chinese economy relies heavily on manufacturing, but has little innovative production. As the cost of manufacturing rises in China as a consequence of economc growth (I doubt Foxconn is an isolated case) and therefore becomes less attractive as a cheap labour source, it is necessary for China's busines to add value to their products by other means such as increased innovation and quality, not just by moving production further inland where labour is cheaper.

Taking from the article you cited:

The Service Economy: China's huge trade surplus is driven by its excessively high dependence on export manufacturing. Only when China's service industry increases its percentage of GDP, reflecting a more consumer-oriented economy, will trade imbalances ease. But while the researchers forecast that service industries will grow from 40% of the economy in 2005 to 48%-49% in 2030-2035, Professor Wang himself thinks service industries will make up 55%-60% in the target years.

and further:

Science and Technology Level: The nation's level of science and technology will be hampered, the government researchers state boldly, by what they call the country's "serious, systematic deficiencies." They focus on two issues: the talent dearth and the poor state of intellectual-property rights protection. China will face a shortage of top science and technology talent in the next two decades, they say, due to the "existing talent nurturing system." Thus China must make full use of overseas-trained professionals, and those trained in the U.S., Japan, and Europe will play an increasingly significant role. The researchers then made the refreshingly honest statement that only if the market economy is fully developed, and only if intellectual-property rights are protected, can China capitalize on its economies of scale in R&D to become a major world innovation center. In all cases, China's basic sciences will still lag far behind the U.S.

I am not calling into question China's current economic might, nor the short term projections for continued growth. I am, however, casting doubt on its ability to take the same turn as Japan did in the 1970's from manufacturer to producer.

 

[nastebu]

I am not calling into question China's current economic might, nor the short term projections for continued growth. I am, however, casting doubt on its ability to take the same turn as Japan did in the 1970's from manufacturer to producer.

Okay, then we're in agreement. Nothing is guaranteed.

 

[backinblack875]

**** them commies. Shove some capitalism up their ass Apple

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Hmmm...

China's average annual rate of economic growth from 1989-2010: 9.3%
The United States' average annual rate of economic growth from 1947-2010: 3.31%
Japan's average annual rate of economic growth from 1980-2010: .55%

That's 20+ years of economic impact.

Yea, lie, steal and cheat you're way their. An act of war!

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

History is not a great predictor for current or future economic trends, the analysis is considerably more complex. It's the same as arguing that because your neighbour has made it to 75 years old with no major health issues, that you expect him to continue to age to 150.

Instead you need to look at how the economy is currently developing, as well as trends in related economies. And one of these trends is that increasingly companies who traditionally would have had goods produced in China are now looking for alternatives as the short term (i.e. production) cost benefits diminish as companies become increasingly aware of the long term impact of such things as IP theft, but also environmental issues (China has a horroid environmental policy where it is cheaper to pollute and pay the small fines than to implement propper procedures, and freight cannot be shipped in a carbon neutral,non-polluting fashion yet) as well as quality concerns.

A company I used to work for has reduced their product line that is manufactured in China considerably due to the high defect rate. Usually the first shipment would be fine, but the next shipment could have a defect as high as 35% (with the odd case of a 100% defective shipment because wrong parts were welded, or welded incorrectly, on an entire product range). If you tried to return the defect goods, youd find that the comapny no longer exists and that there is a different name on the door of the factory - even though all the employees and owners were still the same. A representative from a partner company in Europe has told me that they have experienced the same thing, and that they are in the process of moving the bulk of their manufacturing back to Europe as the long term costs involved in production in China start to increase, while consumer behaviour is starting to shift from quantity back to quality.

You also need to remember that these growth figures are based on information that has been manipulated by the Chinese government, which considerably undermines their reliability.

...and Apple?

 

[Ciclismo]

...and Apple?

Foxconn has had to increase their pay for employees considerably, and they will need to continue doing this as average wages increase in China. And constant rising costs complications such as rising raw material costs, falling US dollar value (and the un-pegging of the Renminbi), and ever rising freight costs further add to their woes.

These costs are certainties, they are inevitable and unavoidable, and they will erode Foxconn's profit margin and will force it to either take shortcuts or to raise unit costs. The former could have negative implications on Apple's image (e.g. condoning environmentally unsound manufacturing processes) or price the products out of their market segments.

As such, unless Foxconn develops new processes and procedures such as replacing 10 unskilled labourers with one skilled worker and a couple of machines in order to keep production costs down, they will lose manufacturing contracts. This is what happened in many developed countries (e.g. the automotive industry vs. the bicycle industry), and as China grows they too will be subject to this. This will therefore obviously affect Apple with Foxconn being one of their major (if not core) supplier.

 

[nastebu]

**** them commies. Shove some capitalism up their ass Apple

China really can't be called "communist" in any economic way any more. They still have a very centralized state, but that's not only a characteristic of communist governments.

If you read anything above, the scary part is that China's last two decades are a story of amazing economic success.

Yea, lie, steal and cheat you're way their. An act of war!

A private company's lawsuit is an act of war? Or is it that China's enormous economic growth is an act of war?

Seriously, what drives comments like these? What makes you feel like you're qualified to add to a conversation about China?

 

[Piggie]

The company said they wanted $800 million to license the name iPad. PLEASE!!! Just buy the stupid company, lay off all the lawyers, and use the name as you wish.

They could also buy 51% of the shares, and vote as the majority stockholder to give the license to themselves.

So you approve of corporate bullying do you?

Let's hope you are never in a position to be dealt with by a company as you suggest Apple should behave.

 

[radcliff]

[RANT]China never gave a damn about cheap knock offs rip offs and other crap like that. And yet they open huge stores in my country, just because people buy their cheap crap.
By letting them sell that kind of crap honest (or not so honest people) are losing their jobs.

Dey dock uur juuubs!!!

 

[Heilage]

Now THAT'S ironic.