Apple Again Trails Market in Smartphone Growth, but Closes on Nokia in Overall Mobile Phones

[zipa]

On Apple site says SOLD!!!! not shipped, where did u get that info? from a Samsung fanboyism site?

Do you think that phone manufacturers are shipping unsold phones around the globe as some sort of a hobby, or what are you trying to say? Most manufacturers won't even start production of unsold units, let alone ship them anywhere. I'd be willing to bet that every phone that Samsung has entering the production line has already been sold to the channel. Mobile phone manufacturers are in the business of selling phones, not stocking warehouses.

 

[zipa]

Oh... and the iPhone 4S sells well?

All sales estimates I've seen are:

85% iPhone 5S
10% iPhone 5C
5% iPhone 4S

At least over here (Finland) the operators, who sell the majority of the phones, have the 5S and 4S pretty much neck-a-neck, with the 5S leading on two and the 4S leading on the third. This is an unsubsidized market, and a fairly typical one at that, if you discount for the obvious bias for Nokia phones.

 

[samcraig]

What kind of statement is that? It demonstrates that even though a $200,000 c is more desirable to most than a $20,000 car, most people don't go around buying them because they can't afford one which is directly synonymous to cell phones in poorer countries. It worked fine.

Again stop with the car analogies. You can't quantify which care is more "desirable" because that very word needs to be quantified - and it's subjective. Just because something is more expensive or, to some, "premium" doesn't make it more desirable to all. Perhaps a cultural bias.

And it's not just about money or costs involved. The whole "people buy cheaper phones because they can't afford more expensive ones" is ridiculous.

 

[Dave.UK]

Again stop with the car analogies. You can't quantify which care is more "desirable" because that very word needs to be quantified - and it's subjective. Just because something is more expensive or, to some, "premium" doesn't make it more desirable to all. Perhaps a cultural bias.

And it's not just about money or costs involved. The whole "people buy cheaper phones because they can't afford more expensive ones" is ridiculous.

Couldnt agree with you more. People also forget about the ongoing costs of owning an expensive car.

Higher insurance
Road Tax
Higher service costs
Higher cost of consumable items such as tyres
etc etc

I know someone that purchased an Aston Martin. £2000 per service one a year. £500 per tyre.

This is why comparisons between phones and cars do not work.

 

[samcraig]

Couldnt agree with you more. People also forget about the ongoing costs of owning an expensive car.

Higher insurance
Road Tax
Higher service costs
Higher cost of consumable items such as tyres
etc etc

I know someone that purchased an Aston Martin. £2000 per service one a year. £500 per tyre.

This is why comparisons between phones and cars do not work.

Well to further - as to re-iterate "desirable" being subjective. If you want a 5" screen right now - the iPhone is not desirable. Period. If you want to stay in the iOS ecosystem - no other phone than the iPhone is desirable. Good/better/best is subjective because at the end of the day - the best and most "desirable" phone for a person it the one that meets their specific use case.

 

[69Mustang]

Again stop with the car analogies. You can't quantify which care is more "desirable" because that very word needs to be quantified - and it's subjective. Just because something is more expensive or, to some, "premium" doesn't make it more desirable to all. Perhaps a cultural bias.

And it's not just about money or costs involved. The whole "people buy cheaper phones because they can't afford more expensive ones" is ridiculous.

I'm starting a fund to pay MR to ban car analogies. We are the worst at using them and they are never apropos. I've observed most people who use them actually know nothing about cars beyond brand recognition.

Funny thing, I'm in two car clubs. In my vintage Mustang club we talk about kids, 401k's, how Camaro drivers are idiots, and who's wife got new boobs for her birthday. In my Audi club we talk about how cool life would be if we were 25, single, and still had all of our hair. We also think BMW drivers are retarded.

Never once have we ever used a phone analogy <-- because stoopid. BMW drivers might though.

 

[SirLance99]

I'm starting a fund to pay MR to ban car analogies. We are the worst at using them and they are never apropos. I've observed most people who use them actually know nothing about cars beyond brand recognition.

Funny thing, I'm in two car clubs. In my vintage Mustang club we talk about kids, 401k's, how Camaro drivers are idiots, and who's wife got new boobs for her birthday. In my Audi club we talk about how cool life would be if we were 25, single, and still had all of our hair. We also think BMW drivers are retarded.

Never once have we ever used a phone analogy <-- because stoopid. BMW drivers might though.

I'll take my Mercedes AMG 63 over a Mustang, Camaro, Audi, or BMW any day if the week.

 

[samcraig]

I'm starting a fund to pay MR to ban car analogies. We are the worst at using them and they are never apropos. I've observed most people who use them actually know nothing about cars beyond brand recognition.

Funny thing, I'm in two car clubs. In my vintage Mustang club we talk about kids, 401k's, how Camaro drivers are idiots, and who's wife got new boobs for her birthday. In my Audi club we talk about how cool life would be if we were 25, single, and still had all of our hair. We also think BMW drivers are retarded.

Never once have we ever used a phone analogy <-- because stoopid. BMW drivers might though.

I'll take my Mercedes AMG 63 over a Mustang, Camaro, Audi, or BMW any day if the week.

I'm in NYC and the best form of transportation is your feet. Just like the best way to interact with your phone is your finger. See what I did there?

 

[69Mustang]

I'll take my Mercedes AMG 63 over a Mustang, Camaro, Audi, or BMW any day if the week.

Nice car but you are automatically deducted cool points because "not a stick shift". Automatically... see what I did there?

I'm in NYC and the best form of transportation is your feet. Just like the best way to interact with your phone is your finger. See what I did there?

I lived in Chicago for 8 years so I know what you mean. Suburban Atlanta? We drive everywhere by necessity.

I feel I owe this thread a courtesy on topic post since I have veered off the road by a significant amount. I mean I seriously crossed the center line. Anywho, Apple sells a ton of phones and makes money. Samsung sells a lot of phones and makes money. I don't either is really worried right now. The rest of the companies better put the pedal to the metal and catch up.

I'll be here all week. Please don't forget to tip the waiters and waitresses.

 

[kdarling]

What kind of statement is that?

He's right about car analogies. We all try them at one time or another, and they all pretty much fail.

It demonstrates that even though a $200,000 c is more desirable to most than a $20,000 car, most people don't go around buying them because they can't afford one which is directly synonymous to cell phones in poorer countries.

Not even close to being directly analogous, because:

Cars aren't subsidized, which is another reason why car analogies fail in this situation.

You see, in your example, the $200,000 car is mostly bought by people who only pay $20K for it... and yet who ironically live in the richest countries.

It's all about value for the cost. Overpaying is something people avoid, poor or rich.

 

[Trapezoid]

It's all about value for the cost. Overpaying is something people avoid, poor or rich.

This is where the car analogy works. People simply will not pay for something where they don't see value. Whether or not it's "better" is subjective. The price is not.

So, if the ferrari costs way more than the kia, and you don't think the ferrari is worth it, you won't buy it. period. Even if they somehow proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the ferrari is better, you wouldn't buy it.

My point? Market share means nothing without context. People are saying the iPhone is not automatically better just because it's more expensive, but in the same breath saying android is better because of its bigger market share.

Blind leading the blind.

 

[69Mustang]

This is where the car analogy works. People simply will not pay for something where they don't see value. Whether or not it's "better" is subjective. The price is not.

So, if the ferrari costs way more than the kia, and you don't think the ferrari is worth it, you won't buy it. period. Even if they somehow proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the ferrari is better, you wouldn't buy it.

My point? Market share means nothing without context. People are saying the iPhone is not automatically better just because it's more expensive, but in the same breath saying android is better because of its bigger market share.

Blind leading the blind.

I'm sorry but car analogies on MR should be banned. We have proven we (me included) are horrible with them. Besides there are other issues with car analogies.

1. The CDC did a study in 2003 conclusively proving that car analogies cause cancer in lab mice.

2. Economists from Harvard analyzed the effects of car analogies on the the US GDP for a 10 year period. They found compelling evidence that the housing bubble coincided precisely with the rise of car analogies in internet forums. Little know fact: Car analogies were the only recipient of TARP funds yet to pay back a single penny.

3. Physicists at the CERN supercollider have verifiable and repeatable proof that when confronted by a car analogy, a Higgs Boson particle will release an audible sigh.

Finally I have no proof of this last fact, but I believe it to be true. Moses originally had 11 Commandments. The 11th? No Car Analogies. It was on a tablet unto itself. Moses broke it across a guy's head when he overheard the guy giving a bad... wait for it... set of directions using the Apple Maps app. /jk

Don't use car analogies.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Don't use car analogies.

I think people are trying to say the following:

A $200,000 car will get you from point A to point B just the same as a $20,000 car.

However... the $200,000 car might do it with a little more polish and extra features.

As for phones... a $650 iPhone will do all the same things at the most basic level as a $150 smartphone... but the iPhone has a lot of great exclusive apps, accessories and other niceties.

 

[Trapezoid]

I think people are trying to say the following:

A $200,000 car will get you from point A to point B just the same as a $20,000 car.

However... the $200,000 car might do it with a little more polish and extra features.

As for phones... a $650 iPhone will do all the same things at the most basic level as a $150 smartphone... but the iPhone has a lot of great exclusive apps, accessories and other niceties.

I don't even think it's that because your example is still subjective. I agree that people ARE saying that, but that's not the truth. The only objective thing is price.

People (rich or poor, as pointed out by kdarling) will pick the cheaper option if they think it provides the same value for them. Android is the cheaper option.

I think it's far more likely that Android is so popular because it's cheaper than because it's "better".

 

[Michael Scrip]

I don't even think it's that because your example is still subjective. I agree that people ARE saying that, but that's not the truth. The only objective thing is price.

All people are doing is comparing an expensive thing to a cheaper thing. They end up using the car analogy because everyone understands expensive cars vs cheap cars. But you could use anything.

Expensive wine vs cheap wine... both get you drunk.
Expensive dinner vs cheap dinner... both provide nourishment

I don't see why you can use an expensive car vs cheap car... both get you from point A to point B

Or an expensive smartphone vs cheap smartphone... both let you make calls, send email, surf the web and use apps

Honestly... I don't see the problem comparing anything using any analogy. That's what an analogy is... an comparison.

People (rich or poor, as pointed out by kdarling) will pick the cheaper option if they think it provides the same value for them. Android is the cheaper option.

I think it's far more likely that Android is so popular because it's cheaper than because it's "better".

It may come down to... "I want a smartphone" and "I don't have a lot of money to spend on a smartphone"

I think many people around the world go into the store to pick a phone... they don't have a lot of money... and they walk out of the store with a cheap phone.

And that cheap phone happens to be running Android.

I'm not saying all Android phones are cheap... but cheap phones run Android, more often than not.

 

[samcraig]

I think people are trying to say the following:

A $200,000 car will get you from point A to point B just the same as a $20,000 car.

However... the $200,000 car might do it with a little more polish and extra features.

As for phones... a $650 iPhone will do all the same things at the most basic level as a $150 smartphone... but the iPhone has a lot of great exclusive apps, accessories and other niceties.

Some android phones at $150 have great exclusive apps, accessories and other niceties. So I don't agree.