Apple Compromising On iTunes Movie Terms?

[Buran]

Why would I want to spend $17 to get a crappy digital-only movie that I have to watch on my computer when, for the same price or less, I can get a physical copy from amazon.com that is guaranteed to be subtitled or captioned and that I can watch on my big TV -- OR on my Mac?

This "deal" is a complete joke and I won't shed a tear if it fails.

 

[HiRez]

Yes, I'm dying for a good Apple solution for rentals, but this isn't it. I'm fine with paying $4, but for that price I want at least a 30-hour rental (preferably 54), a 720p encode, and real 5.1 audio. Do you know how hard it is for people with small children to get through a movie in 24 hours? Burn the Apple TV and start over. Until then, they are not getting a cent of my money. I'm begging to give you money Apple, are you listening?

 

[milo]

$3.99 is what you pay at blockbuster or for pay-per-view. Why not $3.99 for 24 hours? It's the same price, but you get your movie instantly without leaving home, and you have a larger selection of movies than pay-per-view.

Because most people aren't using blockbuster any more, they're going to netflix and other options. For the cost of four rentals, I can pay for a whole month of netflix. There's a good reason that renting at Blockbuster is dying and the company is in horrible financial shape.

The 24 hour window is ridiculous, and all the pricing mentioned is terrible. But if that's what the studios insist on, apple doesn't have much choice, do they? The alternative is to turn the studios down and not stock that content. I guess apple's best shot is to agree to the lousy pricing, and hopefully the studios will see that nobody is buying at $17 and that disney is making way more cash by selling at a fairly reasonable price (which I still think is on the high side).

Although if they up the resolution to HD, this could justify raising prices a bit from 9.99/14.99. But pricing like that would probably just encourage people to stick with Netflix, or just pirate the movies online.

What is the pricing for other downloaded sold/rented movies on other services like xbox or others? Are there any that are significantly cheaper? Looking at unbox, I'm seeing 2.99/3.99 for rentals and 9.99/14.99 for sales, same as iTunes sales now, and rumored rental pricing.

 

[Poll Smoker]

You really need to do some price comparisons before you shop.

In fact, I'd venture to say that you would have a hard time finding a standard def DVD or VCR player for half that.

Unless, of course, you have a time machine that will take you back to 1975...

You really need to RTFT before posting.

He made it clear -- in a second post -- that he was referring to the price when these items were originally released.

 

[tumblebird]

DVD Extras.

I'm happy to pay the same price for iTunes movies as DVDs if I get the same extras and bonus content that DVDs have. Is this something anyone is offering yet?

I mean, I'm happy to lose the physical disk. Although, they should strike whatever small cost there is packaging and shipping costs. Unless it equals out with the cost of bandwidth. Both are low numbers, probably in the tens of cents, if that for bandwidth.

Also, when do we see HD content on iTunes. My AppleTV is waiting.

 

[ChrisA]

Oh no! give us more than 24hrs! At least give us 5 days to watch a flick!

I think 24hrs will be a mistake. There are too many times, things come up that I need more time. Please, let this part be wrong!

I think it depends on when the 24 hour count down clock begins. If it starts counting when you first start watching the movie then 24 hours might be OK. The major problem with downloads is that you never know how long it will take so you have to start well in advance. Many people would start them one day in advance. And then if your plans change? But starting the clock when you first play the movie removes most of the risk.

 

[CWallace]

i rip them to x264 MKV (or just download them that way (tv shows))

Well there you go. Use iTunes and cut-out the middle-man.

 

[Peace]

Apple has to do this or iTunes would sink..

 

[CWallace]

Apple has to do this or iTunes would sink..

No, sales of tvs and iPod Classics and iPod Touches would sink.

 

[guzhogi]

Knowing Apple, I would think they asked for the following:
- the 24 hours limit only starts once you start viewing the movie
- the 24 hours limit doesn't apply until you've seen the movie once, for those "I have to stop watching the movie" moments.

As for the price, I also think they will align themselves with the average current prices, because of the advantages are:
- not having to drive to the rental place / not having to wait day(s) for the DVD to arrive in the mailbox
- being sure that if the movie you want is in the rental list, it's in stock
- not having to return the movie to the rental place / not having to send back a DVD by mail
- not wasting time and gas to move a plastic disc back and forth

As for the quality/bitrate/resolution, I'm expecting something similar to what they are currently offering (unless they upgrade everything and announce that at Macworld too).

I'm also expecting this to be for USA only.

I hope that's true. It would really suck for people still on dial-up if the 24 hours start once you click on the download/buy (whatever it says) link. It'll take them the whole 24 hours just to download it. Plus, it'll also suck f it stopped halfway through saying "oops, you went passed your time."

 

[naroola]

e) sounds a bit virusy/intrusive doesn't it? I don't like the sound of files disappearing off my system. Won't someone work out a way to start removing key files from the registry after '24 hours'?

Am i being paranoid? It just sounds a bit dodgy having files magically remove themselves

For the people who have OS X Leopard and an external Hard Drive, Time Machine backs up all changed/new files every hour. So if Apple goes down the route of having the user download rental movies to their computers, wouldn't Leopard users have a backup of this file anyways?

Apart from that, one option might be that Apple has various versions of a movie for different prices, i.e. a lower price for a SD/Stereo quality, and a slightly higher price for a near HD/5.1 version of it... kind of like the current iTunes Plus concept with songs. When you sync the higher quality movies to your iPod/iPhone, iTunes will automatically render them to be SD quality and stereo sound on the fly.

Thoughts?

 

[Peace]

No, sales of tvs and iPod Classics and iPod Touches would sink.

That's a given !

I see nothing wrong with Apple restructuring the price range of their online music and video services.

 

[EagerDragon]

My cable company has pay per view service for 3.99 and for 2.99 depending on the release date. It is as convinient as it comes and the quality is reasonable.

Even with the above service, I find my self going with Redbook instead for their .99 cents instead. I can pickup the physical disk on the way from work to my home and drop it off on my way to work. Since it is in the way, there is no special trip.

I rather use RedBook that the cable service as it is a better deal and I do not mind betting off the couch.

If Apple wants to compete in the 3.99 area, then it is competting with the Cable service when and if I do not feel like picking a Redbook dvd which is rare. I see little to nothing that Apple will offer for that price that my cable company offers.

I do not see me as an Apple customer for this at those prices. If Apple wants me to switch then it has to offer me something the Cable company does not offer and that I really need.

Offer me something extra or I stay with Cable company and Redbook.

 

[CWallace]

I see nothing wrong with Apple restructuring the price range of their online music and video services.

Nor do I. Choice is always nice. If one does not like the price or quality of a choice, one does not need to partake of the choice.

 

[milo]

how is this whole '24 hours' thing going to work?

a) If i put it on my ipod (manual updating) then it'll be on there for good? So i can 'buy' the movie to play on my tv (with the AV Kit) when ever i like for $4

b) What if i don't open itunes for a week? I can still access the file from Finder

c) Can i not backup the file to an external HD and dump it on another computer so it'll always play?

d) won't some kid find a way to disable the time code/clock on the file(?) so it doesn't 'delete' itself after 24 hours say?

a) It may stay on your ipod until you sync, but how long are you going to be able to go without syncing? Also, if the ipods have date/time built in, they may expire even without syncing.
b) DRM works at they system level - you can't even open an unauthorized music file in the finder.
c) You can back up the file, but again, the player checks the media to see if it is authorized to play on that computer.
d) Somebody may hack it, same as all the other DRM out there. But most people don't go to the trouble and abide by the DRM restrictions.

Good god, listen to some of you people. Whining and crying about "only 24 hours" for the rental.

Here's an idea. I know this is going to shake some of you to the core, disturb your entire life's outlook and belief in god, but...

How about not purchasing the movie until you're ready to watch it? *GASP*

How does that help in situations where you want to take more than one night to watch a movie? Because it's long, because you get interrupted, or any other reason? Even 48 hours would make a big difference and probably make the same money for the studio.

There are 4 things I wish movies & TV shows had on iTunes:
-Chapter markers so you can easily skip a section, though the scroll bar thing is fairly easy

Don't iTunes movies have this already?

-Give the FULL movie/episode. Not just a clipped down version

This is the first I've heard of missing scenes, it may be that the studio sent apple the wrong version...have you contacted them about it?

 

[Peace]

[snip]

My cable company has pay per view service for 3.99 and for 2.99 depending on the release date. It is as convinient as it comes and the quality is reasonable.

By contrast : Comcast Cable charges $5.99 for a HD movie rental and that's only after it's been out on DVD for 3 months.

 

[fluidedge]

a) It may stay on your ipod until you sync, but how long are you going to be able to go without syncing? Also, if the ipods have date/time built in, they may expire even without syncing.
b) DRM works at they system level - you can't even open an unauthorized music file in the finder.
c) You can back up the file, but again, the player checks the media to see if it is authorized to play on that computer.
d) Somebody may hack it, same as all the other DRM out there. But most people don't go to the trouble and abide by the DRM restrictions.

Sounds reasonable, cheers.

I still don't like the sound of files disappearing or 'expiring' - couldn't some malicious code apply a DRM type thing on system files that could then expire?

 

[Yuppi]

Wow, I am impressed. This sucks in so many ways.. Let's hope this rumor is a fake.

 

[milo]

14.99 for a compressed to death crappy hollywood movie??
a DVD costs that and at least in's not a lossy file

FYI, dvd's DO use lossy compression. They're generally better quality/resolution than the current iTunes movies, but they're still compressed. And there's nothing inherently worse about the quality of a downloaded movie, it can be whatever resolution and data rate the provider chooses.

I don't believe there has never been a consumer video format that has used uncompressed digital video, at least not a mainstream one.

Look at it this way - Apple is saving folks the effort of ripping the DVD in "MactheRipper" and then compressing it using VisualHub.

If you watch all your DVDs on a DVD player, this option is not meant for you.

It is meant for folks who rip their DVDs to their computer or tv.

Problem is, it gives a result of lower quality, and with less features than buying the DVD and ripping it. If they want to replace the DVD they need to be competitive with it (and better yet, competitive with HD dvds).

 

[GQB]

I'm not good with networking at all and hooking up and synching my aTV took 3 minutes. If you can't handle that, then you need to seriously reexamine yourself.

The software needs an upgrade, not the hardware.

Oh, I totally agree. (I've had a Squeezebox 2 for a couple of years, and I'm the only one in the family who can use it. That alone almost got me to get an AppleTV v1.)

My point was just that the critical factor is the AppleTV in a LOT of living rooms, not the initial posturing over content pricing. That will shake itself out, but the company that has the right living room solution will win (or do really well.)

I'm just not sure if forcing the user to have a computer in the mix will ultimately be the winning formula. I think that the box is going to have to be able to download content directly, and in that sense you're right that this could probably be done with software mods to the AppleTV.

 

[netnothing]

Good god, listen to some of you people. Whining and crying about "only 24 hours" for the rental.

Here's an idea. I know this is going to shake some of you to the core, disturb your entire life's outlook and belief in god, but...

How about not purchasing the movie until you're ready to watch it? *GASP*

Times are changing. No longer do you have to go to Blockbuster and stock up on 3 or 4 movies and plan your weeknights watching them before they have to be returned. If you suddenly say "I'd like to watch Goodfellas tonight," you go to your computer and download it, then watch it. If on the other hand, you don't want to watch your movie until the weekend, then you (*warning: brilliant idea follows*) don't download it until the weekend!

Sure, Redbox is cheaper. Not as easy, but cheaper. If you want to go that route, nobody's stopping you.

I see nothing wrong with the proposed rental services iTunes will (hopefully) offer.

It's not about downloading the movie. All these services allow you to download whenever. The 24 hour clock doesn't start until you begin watching it.

Why is it that just because I download a movie, not pick it up in DVD form, I HAVE to watch a movie from beginning to end within 24 hours? I'm not at the theater. I'm in my own home. So what if I want to watch half 1 night and the end the next. Or even.... *GASP* ..... take a few days to watch a movie?!?!

I have 2 small kids, which means that I can usually only watch movies at night. So I go and download a movie and begin it at 8pm (when the kids are in bed). 24 hour rental means.....no way in hell I can watch some tonight and finish the next night....at 8pm, that movie is deleted. Why can't they at least give 48 hours? Is that so unreasonable?

-Kevin

 

[pjarvi]

$3.99 to rent a new movie released day&date with the DVD seems reasonable, assuming they are going to be charging more for the regular BUY option (most likely $19.99, as $17 sounds like what the studios want just for themselves). However the rental price would need to go down as the buying price goes down, so a $9.99 movie would have a $1.99 rental price.

A 24 hour rental viewing period is not very consumer friendly, but it's what Microsoft does with their Live Marketplace rentals, and I haven't run into any issues with it myself. At least for me, it just results in fewer rentals, as I only rent something when I know i'm going to have the time to sit through the whole movie in one go.

 

[Peace]

It's not about downloading the movie. All these services allow you to download whenever. The 24 hour clock doesn't start until you begin watching it.

Why is it that just because I download a movie, not pick it up in DVD form, I HAVE to watch a movie from beginning to end within 24 hours? I'm not at the theater. I'm in my own home. So what if I want to watch half 1 night and the end the next. Or even.... *GASP* ..... take a few days to watch a movie?!?!

I have 2 small kids, which means that I can usually only watch movies at night. So I go and download a movie and begin it at 8pm (when the kids are in bed). 24 hour rental means.....no way in hell I can watch some tonight and finish the next night....at 8pm, that movie is deleted. Why can't they at least give 48 hours? Is that so unreasonable?

-Kevin

I'm guessing the majority of people want to watch a movie from beginning to end at once.

 

[EagerDragon]

Apple should conduct an experiment. Let the studios price their digital downloads however they like, and let Apple show them the resulting sales losses (and track the increase in torrent activity at the same time).

Meanwhile, another studio could be convinced to price their digital downloads fairly -- and see their sales soar.

I refuse to pay even $15 for a digital download where just a few dollars more will give me a physical disc, higher resolution, DTS/DD 5.1 surround sound, cover art, featurettes and other extras, subtitles, multiple languages, etc, etc. Nowadays I buy my movies from the Previously Viewed bins, and pay only $5-10 each, which is far LESS than the cost of a digital download. Not to mention not having to download gigantic files and then figure out how to back them up.

Don't even talk to me about RAISING prices on downloads.

I am with you, I will not purchase a movie via iTunes as the quality is lower than DVD and it is missing all the other material and to make maters worse, I can not lend my movie to a friend, I have to lend him my computer or invite him to my home to watch.

With a physical DVD it is perfectly legal to mail the DVD to friends and for them to mail you theirs. You can not do that legaly with a digital version. On top of that when you get sick and tired of the movie, you can not exchange it or sell it like you could with a physical DVD.

**** To the guy who quoted $800 for a DVD player or VCR player, let me tell you I seen VHS players for $50, and DVD players for $75. Not sure where you are shopping. But I can sell you my old g4 mini for $800, since it has a dvd player build in, it is a great deal. I also have some nice VHS players for 500 brand new that I can purchase for 50. Let me know.

.

 

[EagerDragon]

[snip]
By contrast : Comcast Cable charges $5.99 for a HD movie rental and that's only after it's been out on DVD for 3 months.

I don't mind viewing a movie 12 months after it was released in the theater, specialy if cheaper the older it gets. As long as the pipe of movies is filled with movies I have not seen, it does not mater how old they are to me. I don't own an iPhone either, I am wayting for the next version.

I am happy today with DVD quality, HD is nice but for me not if I have to pay a premioum.

Have you seen the price of gas?
Gas is up 150%, food is up 15%, salaries are up 2 to 5% nation wide, why would I pay a premioun on anything if I have a choice like RedBook for rentals or wait to purchase a movie until it comes down in price?