Apple Could Soon Face 'Sweeping' U.S. Antitrust Lawsuit

[tgwaste]

How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
> Yes because they control the stack, this is WAY WAY better for us consumers and its STILL buggy.

How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
> This is for control of course, but the side effect of security is worth it

How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
> This is weird and should probably change

Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
> This has never been my experience in all my years with Apple

How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
> Which ones?

How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
> Security.

How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
> 1000% better for customers and their right to their own data

In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
> This is definitely REALLY high. I can go both ways on this. Their percentages seem more 'price gouging' rather than 'anti-trust'.

 

[dominiongamma]

The stupidness of all of this boils down to defining Apple‘s ecosystem/platform as a „market“ in which everyone is entitled to compete. The competition ought to be between ecosystems/platforms (in Apple‘s case: Mac vs. Windows/Linux, iOS vs. Android etc.) If Apple was sabotaging other ecosystems/platforms, they should be punished; but they don‘t. And how coild they: they don‘t have anything approaching a monopoly in any of the markets they compete in. All those leeches like Spotify, Tile, Epic et al. just want to reap what Apple has sown by building their ecosystem from the ground up for two decades now. So much easier than to build their own, I guess.

It’s also about letting the users decide what we want on our computers and phones

 

[AgeOfSpiracles]

• How the Apple Watch works better with iPhone than other smart watches do.
  • Do Chevy engines work better with Chevys than Fords?
  • Or... does the Chevy Infotainment system work better with a Chevy than a Ford?
• How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
  • No one is "locked out", Apple simply doesn't have app for other platforms. Platform independent apps exist in good numbers.
• How Apple blocks other financial firms from offering tap-to-pay services similar to Apple Pay on the iPhone.
  • Fair enough
• Whether Apple favors its own apps and services over those provided by third-party developers.
  • Who doesn't? I am sure most consumers know how to find apps that provide additional functionality if the Apple app doesn't provide.
• How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
  • Fair enough
• How Apple restricts the iPhone's location services from devices that compete with AirTag.
  • Fair enough, not sure if this is anti-competitive or protecting customer location data
• How App Tracking Transparency impacted the collection of advertising data.
  • Shouldn't user privacy come first?
• In-app purchase fees collected by Apple.
  • All retailers mark up.

Perfect summary! All I'd add, is that the AW just works better than other smart watches, period. If you want to flip it, and say that the iPhone works better with the AW than other smartphones do, then "fair enough."

 

[arcite]

You Either Die a Hero or Live Long Enough to See Yourself Become the Villain

Our world will soon resemble Cyberpunk 2077 if we're not careful. It's not great a few corporations (with valuations larger than many countries) control increasingly vast swaths of the global economy.

Income inequality is at new record levels in the US (and most of the world).

The top 1% own almost 50% of ALL assets.

So yea...we must make a choice; do we want corporations in control, or democratically elected governments?

 

[GMShadow]

Being mad that Apple stops advertising trackers is just plain stupid now, the other point at least made sense…

Those companies pay the pols more than Apple does.

 

[GMShadow]

Our world will soon resemble Cyberpunk 2077 if we're not careful. It's not great a few corporations (with valuations larger than many countries) control increasingly vast swaths of the global economy.

Income inequality is at new record levels in the US (and most of the world).

The top 1% own almost 50% of ALL assets.

So yea...we must make a choice; do we want corporations in control, or democratically elected governments?

Anyone who's spent an hour with the average voter is not going to answer the way you want.

 

[roar08]

Listing Beeper as an Apple competitor is stupefying.

 

[tgwaste]

It's also important to keep in mind that the LIBERAL WEAPONIZED DOJ is targeting the biggest companies in America specifically to further their own Anti-American agenda. They don't care about you or what you can do with your phone.

P.S. That means Apple has done all of this to themselves. None of this was happening under Trump. You reap what you sow.

 

[tgwaste]

And Apple should stop playing the kid company and grow up, they were once viewed as a tech serious company, we are adults we should be able to choose what we let on our phones and computers.

I agree with this. But none of it should be enabled by default and there should be a few hoops to open the wall to the garden.

P.S. It should void the warranty. You can't say "Let me do whatever I want with my device and install any 3rd party crap program I want" and then at the same time say "And the manufacture should fix it for me if that screws it up".

 

[MacProFCP]

Antitrust and anti-monopolistic laws are implemented in ways never imagined by their creators. The intent of such laws was to ensure and encourage competition in every segment.

Unfortunately, today, many governments use these laws as an excuse to seek and collect high value fees and settlements.

There are some points mentioned here that I agree with, however it does not change the fact that tort reform is largely overdue.

 

[the future]

Consider: Android exists as the non-Apple option due to Apple’s insistence on being closed.

Yeah, „opening up“ the Apple ecosystem(s) by force would lead to less (real) competition/choice for consumers: it would become just like Windows/Android and consumers who prefer the Apple way would be robbed of a choice. FFS, just look at Android: there are many (hardware) competitors, but it‘s all just shades of grey, everything like everything else with minimal differences. iPhone/iOS, now that‘s something completely else.

 

[mrat93]

#2 is a non-issue. It’s their service for their devices. And #7 only benefits us. I’m for a lot of these things being looked into, but #2 and #7 I’m with Apple 100%.

If #2 were a non-issue, people wouldn’t be complaining about it. It wouldn’t be one of the loudest complaints US iPhone users have.

It’s certainly their right to do whatever they want — but what they are doing is ridiculous and limiting from a user standpoint.

 

[arcite]

Consider: Android exists as the non-Apple option due to Apple’s insistence on being closed. (There are specific high-end feature phones with different physical features, but the mass market all look like iPhones)

What would be the real world impact of iPhone marketshare if the iPhone were to become more open like Android? There’s really no down side for Apple, the problem would simply become how many new factories would need to come online to fill the need.

I'm a life long Apple computer buyer, but also an android user. Android controls 70% of the global mobile phone market. IOS is under 30%.

I enjoy the relative 'openness' of Android. It's practically a complete desktop OS at this point, and way more tweak-able. Plus, of course...the various google apps work better.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Until the US Government enacts enumerated Federal Law governing the Right to Privacy whatever they claim is Anti-Trust has to be taken with a grain of salt. Most of the limitations that Apple imposes on 3rd Party vendors doesn't come with malicious intent it's minimizing and external company from dropping the ball security wise. Apple Pay has not hindered me from using other Payment methods. I had two generations of Tile trackers and they worked poorly.

Air Tags has not failed me once. In fact a month ago my wife left the car unlocked and her purse was stolen. We drove north across state lines and found her Airpod Pro case along side the highway were the thieves chucked it and we found the Air Tag that was previously attached to her purse. That's incredible.

By all means if you think Apple's actions are impeding vendors from delivering competitive products then make your case but the reality is their engineers are simply better.

I'm critical of Apple but the DOJ making a fuss is downright hilarious. The DOJ hasn't done anything meaningful in years.

 

[k1121j]

I thought Apple was all supposed to be about gaming now, but they block cloud gaming. I never got their position on that, it makes Apple look out of touch with the future with cloud gaming

I agree

 

[xxFoxtail]

Easy solution, just pull out of the US.

/s

 

[arcite]

but it‘s all just shades of grey, everything like everything else with minimal differences. iPhone/iOS, now that‘s something completely else.

Is it though.....really? Successive iOS versions are becoming closer to successive Android versions. Both OSs are copying each other at this point. As for hardware features of various Android Mobile phone manufacturers; the sky is the limit....folding phone anyone?

 

[AgeOfSpiracles]

This is such nonsense, at every turn. Tile can get lost. I used their products, and they were crap.

The rest of this is nonsense. DoJ smelling money, and nothing more.

I was a heavy Tile user for years. They saved my ass so damn much, I would never call them crap. I would have bought anything they sold... sunglasses, shoes, water bottles, whatever. But they stagnated and failed to innovate, so when AirTags came out Apple completely ate their lunch. The tile network was good, but the Apple's destroys it. Now that Apple has finally gotten around to adding some basic features (like tag sharing), there's no reason to look at anything else.

 

[tgwaste]

#2 is a non-issue. It’s their service for their devices. And #7 only benefits us. I’m for a lot of these things being looked into, but #2 and #7 I’m with Apple 100%.

The LAST place I want any 3rd party is in iMessage.

 

[Yujenisis]

This shouldn't be viewed as Apple doing anything good or bad. If Apple wouldn't be here, another public company would gladly take their place.

This should be viewed a problem that a $3 trillion market cap company will eventually face. There's no good proxy for this size; not even standard oil. When a company grows this large, and is this successful, with such market concentration in so many segments, there will eventually be some antitrust action.

I’d argue Google has been more aggressively anticompetitive for much longer than Apple and continues to face less scrutiny.

The fact it uses its total search monopoly (and heaps of user data), to subsidize giving away dozens of popular products, is novel and does more harm to stifle innovation than anything Microsoft was accused of in the 90’s.

That said, this list isn’t all baseless. Where there’s ones that show a basic lack of understanding, like trying to force Apple to “open up” iMessage there’s also Apple’s rejection of Cloud-based gaming that is arbitrary and anti-consumer IMO.

 

[Kevin2055]

They forgot adding how Apple keeps its brand Apple and does not allow others to use the same brand.

 

[arcite]

Easy solution, just pull out of the US.

/s

That is not the American Way. The American way is to deploy an army of lobbyists carrying open cheque-books and make a pilgrimage to the various congress critters.

 

[mrat93]

How Apple locks competitors out of iMessage.
> This is for control of course, but the side effect of security is worth it

There have been exploits which specifically took advantage of iMessage to gain backdoor access to iPhones. I don’t know if this would be possible with an Android client.

‘Triangulation’ — Complex Exploit Backdoored Unknown Number of iPhones Over 4 Years

Link to: https://arstechnica.com/security/2023/12/exploit-used-in-mass-iphone-infection-campaign-targeted-secret-hardware-feature/

daringfireball.net

How Apple has blocked cloud gaming apps from the App Store.
> Which ones?

If I remember correctly, Apple wanted Microsoft to list cloud games as individual App Store listings. So if you wanted to play Halo 5 via cloud, you’d need to search for Halo 5 in the App Store. But Microsoft wanted a singular Game Pass app. Or, I think that’s part of it.

 

[easy4lif]

At the end of the day, the doj case will reside with the Supreme Court, a court that the majority believes in Robert Bork’s views on antitrust…

From his book the antitrust paradox…

Thus, while it was appropriate to prohibit cartels that fix prices and divide markets and mergers that create monopolies, practices that are allegedly exclusionary, such as vertical agreements and price discrimination, did not harm consumers and so should not be prohibited. The paradox of antitrust enforcement was that legal intervention artificially raised prices by protecting inefficient enterprises from competition.

 

[Kevin2055]

I'm a life long Apple computer buyer, but also an android user. Android controls 70% of the global mobile phone market. IOS is under 30%.

I enjoy the relative 'openness' of Android. It's practically a complete desktop OS at this point, and way more tweak-able. Plus, of course...the various google apps work better.

Google apps works better on Google OS? That’s RED FLAG.