Apple Drops AirPrint Compatibility for Second-Generation iPod Touch

[felipur]

Why did my old PC perform acceptability on 1/8th the RAM doing all the things you say use "extra overhead" ?

There hasn't been a desktop OS that ran in 16M for years. There used to be and they did many of the things modern OSes do but how is that relevant?

And who says it has to be a background service ? Just foreground it for older devices.

It's not about the RAM for one particular task. Modern software is built on modular frameworks. It's the only way to get reasonable development efficiency and stability. With frameworks, you get it all or you get none.

Printing, as implemented in iOS probably depends on the multitasking frameworks, the notification frameworks, the dock frameworks, interapplication communication frameworks, and so on. So the hardware requirement is actually the requirement to load and use ALL those frameworks. If the hardware can't support them all, then, sure, Apple could implement printing using some other method but that becomes a one-off development task for one feature to support a small subset of the user base. The software engineering cost of that kind of thing is very high and, apparently, Apple has decided it isn't worth paying it.

 

[err404]

The phones that were released in the last year in a half will have about 3-4 lifespan with updates going threw the 3rd year according to the developers. I dont see Android as a "superior" experience but as an alternative for those who cant afford to have a cell phone only last about 2 years before they cannot take advantage of some of the great qualities that are currently offered. As in the last year Apple has stepped it's game up but the 3G owners cannot take advantage of it.

The SmartPhone segment is exploding. Don't expect any phone you buy today to support all of the software features of devices released 2 years later. The 3G still runs the same OS and the same apps. Some feature just don't run well enough to be included.

 

[err404]

The beauty of choice is being able to choose for yourself which you'd rather have. Performance or utility. The beauty of options is that they can be turned on/off.

Make no mistake about it; Apple is about the user experience not choice. If that is unacceptable, get an android.

 

[MacAttack89]

The SmartPhone segment is exploding. Don't expect any phone you buy today to support all of the software features of devices released 2 years later. The 3G still runs the same OS and the same apps. Some feature just don't run well enough to be included.

Good point. But can you blame me for trying to go the distance with my phone?I personally feel that with the iphone you do miss out on stuff regardless if it runs the same OS or not. As with something like Android, I feel if they did "stop" supporting the android phone of my choice, I wouldn't feel like I would be missing out on certain things. Not saying thats Apples downfall or not, its just something to be personally as I try to get the most out of my phones.

 

[KnightWRX]

Make no mistake about it. Apple is about the user experience not choice. If that is unacceptable, get an android.

Funny how OS X can be so open, have such a wide variety of uses and options and still keep a good user experience, while iOS needs to be so "dictatored" while running on devices twice as powerful as the original computers that ran OS X (and about 20 times more powerful than the origina NeXT cube computers that ran "OS X" back when it was called NeXTSTEP).

 

[840quadra]

Apple could readily use the Flash portion of the phone as a temporary buffer space to spool a print job. Their OS, they are not limited by the APIs in the SDK. They can pull a Cartman and do "whatever they want".

But seriously, we had printing on devices that had less than 128 MB of RAM+swap back in the days, yet still managed to multi-task and have full graphical interfaces...

I am with you there. I don't know why they don't have or enable swap space. unless they want to add it in the future and call it a new feature ; ) .

On one hand say that your apps crash with these enabled and on the other you call Apple greedy for not including them. Maybe they consider the impact of enabling them unacceptable.

When did I call them greedy? Please don't put words in my text box, and I won't do the same for you.

I am 100% against forced obsolecence, and 100% pro choice. Apple could EAISLY allow the users to enable these features, while also posting up a warning message when one chooses to do so.

I get a warning message every time I plug my iPhone 4 into my universal dock stating that cellular performance may suffer because it is "not optimized", I click OK, and continue using this device knowing this. They could easily pop something up on the iPod Touch (or older iPhones) warning about performance hits with wallpaper or multitasking enabled.

The beauty of choice is being able to choose for yourself which you'd rather have. Performance or utility. The beauty of options is that they can be turned on/off.

That is good design, offering choice to your user so that he can get performance when he needs it and utility when he does. Throwing hardware at a problem is only resulting in software bloat.

Exactly!

 

[err404]

Funny how OS X can be so open, have such a wide variety of uses and options and still keep a good user experience, while iOS needs to be so "dictatored" while running on devices twice as powerful as the original computers that ran OS X (and about 20 times more powerful than the origina NeXT cube computers that ran "OS X" back when it was called NeXTSTEP).

That's a whole new can of worms and a bit off-topic.
This trend will continue as computers become less of a hobby and more like appliances. Personally I want an "appliance" most of the time, especially on my phone.

 

[ChazUK]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.1-update1; en-gb; Dell Streak Build/ERE27) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/530.17)

@ Knight re:
"No, of course it doesn't. That proves the point that hardware is being obsoleted not because it's actually obsolete but because manufacturers want to get your upgrade dollars"

I believe to get CM6 running on the G1 that you need to perform some apps2sd hackery to get it to work due to hardware limitations (repartitioning the SD with an EXT2 or 3 partition to move some of the caches away from the internal memory) which isn't supported on stock android builds.

In the case of Froyo on the G1 it very well is a matter of it being hardware obsolete but with some clever workarounds, it can be done.

@ er404 re:

"No, that does not count since the 3G will add these things to via JB. the user just has to accept with the sub-optimal experience Also as I understand it, 2.2 on the G1 runs slow and is lacking many features (Flash being a big one)"

I have no idea how well FroYo runs on the G1 but what I've seen of it is that it runs well enough compared to 1.6. Flash isn't a feature of Android 2.2 (its a seperate app/plugin, independent of the OS) and it has a minimum requirement way above the G1's hardware which is why it can't be installed. Of course the lacking G1 hardware I'm talking about is probably similar to Apple's decision to omit printing from the 2nd Gen touch (something I feel is plausable and I agree with you on!).

 

[err404]

When did I call them greedy? Please don't put words in my text box, and I won't do the same for you.

I think Apple is just doing the tried and true "sales driven forced obsolescence".

You didn't use the word "greedy", but you described greedy tactics.

I am 100% against forced obsolecence, and 100% pro choice. Apple could EAISLY allow the users to enable these features, while also posting up a warning message when one chooses to do so.

I get a warning message every time I plug my iPhone 4 into my universal dock stating that cellular performance may suffer because it is "not optimized", I click OK, and continue using this device knowing this. They could easily pop something up on the iPod Touch (or older iPhones) warning about performance hits with wallpaper or multitasking enabled.

This boils down to why many people buy Apple. If a feature doesn't work well, why include it? You'll only annoy users who try to actually use it in order to appease a few people who probably wont use it anyway (since it runs poor). I don't want features on my phone that don't work well.

A better solution is for the technically inclined user to just JB the phone and do what they want instead of imposing poor features on everyone.
I wish Apple didn't spend so much effort stopping JB

 

[840quadra]

You didn't use the word "greedy", but you described greedy tactics.



This boils down to why many people buy Apple. If a feature doesn't work well, why include it? You'll only annoy users who try to actually use it in order to appease a few people who probably wont use it anyway (since it runs poor). I don't want features on my phone that don't work well.

I totally understand what you are saying, and that does make sense on both sides of this debate. Having an optimum performing device is crucial, more so as a phone, than an entertainment / PDA device such as the Touch.

However I still feel that choice should be given to the customer who has invested in the hardware. But, that is simply my opinion.

 

[Ipodtouchnight]

Umm

My iPod touch 2g can run apple multitasking great and wallpaper if u use bosspaper from cydia so apple just does not want to make it work on the 2g

 

[KnightWRX]

That's a whole new can of worms and a bit off-topic.
This trend will continue as computers become less of a hobby and more like appliances. Personally I want an "appliance" most of the time, especially on my phone.

Well, it's not really off-topic. We just got there discussing this topic. I don't want my computing devices to become like the old appliances, I want my appliances to become smarter, like my computing devices. Making these devices programmable offers great advantages over the hard coded firmwares/mechanical appliances of the past, let's take advantage of them instead of letting manufacturers dictate what they think we want as an experience.

 

[ninjax00]

I understand that Apple is a hardware company and that in order for them to make money, they must continually sell hardware. What i don't understand is why Apple seemingly punishes those who choose not o buy the latest and greatest. I think if someone wants that feature and is willing to deal with slow printing or crashing, they should be at least given the option.

 

[err404]

Well, it's not really off-topic. We just got there discussing this topic. I don't want my computing devices to become like the old appliances, I want my appliances to become smarter, like my computing devices. Making these devices programmable offers great advantages over the hard coded firmwares/mechanical appliances of the past, let's take advantage of them instead of letting manufacturers dictate what they think we want as an experience.

Good or bad, it's just the direction I see things going. For many devices this works very well (Game consoles, TVs, Phones, Media Centers, etc).
For other devices like computers and laptops it remains to be seen, but if devices like the iPad are indicators, there is a demand.
Appliances don't mean dumb devices. They can be very tightly integrated experiences with focused and intuitive UI's.

 

[err404]

I understand that Apple is a hardware company and that in order for them to make money, they must continually sell hardware. What i don't understand is why Apple seemingly punishes those who choose not o buy the latest and greatest. I think if someone wants that feature and is willing to deal with slow printing or crashing, they should be at least given the option.

No, users really shouldn't be given the option to select something that will knowingly hurt performance and crash apps. If they did offer you the option, it would be Apple's fault when you have problems.
If you insist on using the feature anyway, JB your phone.

 

[JohnDoe98]

the issue isn't about whether or not you could print back in the day. The issue is what do current printing drivers require? If they require more RAM than is possible on the iDevices, it simply doesn't matter what printing drivers required back in the 80s or 90s. Apple needs their App to work with modern printers not bygone ones.

Also, there are already printing Apps on the App store that do wireless printing of documents and webpages. Just use those with your legacy devices...

Bien joue...

 

[KnightWRX]

the issue isn't about whether or not you could print back in the day. The issue is what do current printing drivers require? If they require more RAM than is possible on the iDevices, it simply doesn't matter what printing drivers required back in the 80s or 90s.

Quite the contrary I'd say. If there is bloat, it should be trimmed off. Let's face it, Postscript and PCL haven't changed in how many years exactly now ? We were printing with postscript v3 in the 90s, we're still using it today.

There's a very serious bloat problem if we can't fit the same print architectures we had back in the day in twice the hardware today. Printing is not something that evolved much over the last 10 years.

Also, there are already printing Apps on the App store that do wireless printing of documents and webpages. Just use those with your legacy devices...

Which further proves the point that Apple are doing forced obsolescence.

No, users really shouldn't be given the option to select something that will knowingly hurt performance and crash apps. If they did offer you the option, it would be Apple's fault when you have problems.

Uh, sure they should be and no they wouldn't. If I turn on a feature and there's a warning on using said feature, then I am at fault.

We don't need nanny states/corporate overlords to tell us what we can and can't do.

 

[JohnDoe98]

Quite the contrary I'd say. If there is bloat, it should be trimmed off. Let's face it, Postscript and PCL haven't changed in how many years exactly now ? We were printing with postscript v3 in the 90s, we're still using it today.

There's a very serious bloat problem if we can't fit the same print architectures we had back in the day in twice the hardware today. Printing is not something that evolved much over the last 10 years.

Granted, but that requires a sustained effort Apple may not be willing, with good reason, to undertake.

Which further proves the point that Apple are doing forced obsolescence.

Or proves they have a much better way of implementing it that requires extra resources.

 

[err404]

Uh, sure they should be and no they wouldn't. If I turn on a feature and there's a warning on using said feature, then I am at fault.

If the feature doesn't work well and they have to prompt the user to let the know it causes problems, it's a mistake to even allow it.

Check this box to enable features that failed our internal performance and stability testing. Don't bother us when your stuff breaks.

End users expect more from iOS. They don't want to be beta testers for broken features.

If you want to open it up and take the risk yourself, JB your device. The devices in question have permanent flaws that allow JB.

 

[japanime]

It is inevitable that they will someday be saying this about the 1st generation Ipad.

You're not suggesting that they will drop AirPrint support for the first-generation iPad, are you? That will never happen.

If, however, you mean that two or three years from now, when Apple is announcing super-cool new features for iOS 5 or iOS6 or whatever, and the first-generation iPad is not compatible with those new features, well sure.

 

[Kevenly]

Removing features on certain devices and disallowing downgrades to previous firmware versions suggests to me to be a rather underhanded way to push new hardware purchases. For one thing, there is no reason a person shouldn't be allowed to install whatever iOS version they want at least back to what the device originally came with. I personally believe they promise a certain amount of impression with iAds and that's why they won't let people go back to iOS 3. Next, I have tried multitasking on a 2nd Gen Touch and it really performed just fine even with large games an such. I also can not conceive of why bluetooth keyboards are not allowed on 2nd Gen, nor why they would remove the printing option (which I was looking forward to).

All speculation aside, the thing that I am most sick of with the modern Apple Corp. is that they don't let the user decide anything anymore. Leave the options in. If I want to try multitasking or desktop wall paper or printing, let me decide if the performance hit is worth the feature gain. I can toggle it off if I find it unacceptable.

Computers have always allowed people to install whatever operating system suits them, and to adjust the features and performance of the machine in whatever way they want. Every day it seems like Apple heads more and more into the realm of dictating very strictly what can be done with the hardware I own. Why not just lease these devices to people, since it seems to be all about maintaining a platform enabling usage of iTunes store apps and media. Lease the devices out since I don't seem to really own it or be able to legitimately do what I want with it.

The 2nd Gen Touch had Bluetooth from the start but required a paid iOS update several months later to activate the hardware inside which the user had already paid for. That kind of stuff is just absurd to me.

 

[tatonka]

It's not the CPU load, it's RAM. Have you ever seen the size of print jobs? Once printing is requested, a new RAM intensive process is created to process the job. Without enough RAM, the calling app will be terminated or the the print job will fail.
The devices with 256MB+ will be able to handle the print job w/o terminating the two primary tasks (app and print queue).
The iPod Touch 2nd Gen has more free RAM then the iPhone 3G since the phone services are not running. Apple appears to have initially thought that this was enough memory to get the job done, but backpedaled as the code became for feature complete.
The fact that Apple tried to get the older iPod Touch to run printing, tells me that this was a technical issue, but a push to make users upgrade.

After I posted I read that there is only like 30-40MB left for the apps after the os is booted .. I agree that that may become a little small rather quickly.

I think that if Apple wanted they could very well make it work, like swap the app to the disk while printing and then swap back or whatever. But I can see that it would mean a lot of trouble for old hardware and a feature that lets be honest here, is probably of little interest to the vast majority anyways. Printing from the iPad yeah .. the iPhone/touch, don't see many needing that.

T.

 

[fivenotrump]

What is a printer?

I'm glad you asked. It was a technology that people used in the olden days, for making what they called 'hard-copy'. This was a method of looking at stuff later on when you had no electronic device available.

 

[err404]

Removing features on certain devices and disallowing downgrades to previous firmware versions suggests to me to be a rather underhanded way to push new hardware purchases.

They didn't remove a feature. They decided not to add a new feature. As for rolling back I somewhat understand your concern, but Apple is trying to build an eco-system for application distribution. The API's are currently going through rapid growth and it is nearly impossible for a developer to maintain compatibility across multiple major iOS versions. If you could roll back, most of your apps would break. Also your device would contain serious known exploits with consequences greater then just you device.

Computers have always allowed people to install whatever operating system suits them, and to adjust the features and performance of the machine in whatever way they want.

A ipod/phone are not computers, they are closer to appliances. Many appliance devices have a one-way upgrade path. Particularly if they are tied to a distribution system like the App Store.

The 2nd Gen Touch had Bluetooth from the start but required a paid iOS update several months later to activate the hardware inside which the user had already paid for. That kind of stuff is just absurd to me.

Look up Sarbanes–Oxley. Depending upon how a sale is recorded, a strict reading could require charging for upgrades. But it's irrelevant at this point; changes to Apples internal accounting practices mean this no longer an issue. Upgrades are now free.

Also, AFAIK the ipod touch 2nd gen does not prevent a firmware rollback (though many iDevices do). Just download the firmware file, put your ipod in recovery mode and use iTunes to do a restore.