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notabadname

macrumors 68000
Jan 4, 2010
1,569
736
Detroit Suburbs
Except for the fact, no document should dictate how I use things I purchase. I didn't buy a license of the book, I bought the book. Where and how I read it is my decision.

People are too easy to give up their fundamental rights of property ownership. We're not talking about guns here and the need to regulate that, we're talking about goods that should be very simple. Games, books, movies, tv shows, songs, etc.

Yet you did give your "right", because you made a "decision" to agree to a contract for use of Copyrighted material. You are correct, we are not talking about physical property such as guns, which you are able to modify, paint and saw off part of the barrel if you chose. You have bought digital media which is not physical in any practical way. You are agreeing to its use. You decide if you find the terms suitable for its controlled consumption/use by you. If you don't agree, you need not buy it. 100% your decision to accept that agreement.

The agreement is to protect the rights of the people creating the content as their livelihood. Rights that everyone seems only too happy to disregard, even though their purchase of the digital media is generally only for their own entertainment, not their own livelihood. You have really have little to lose (or gain) in DRM circumvention. The creator of the content potentially has much to lose.
 

darklyt

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2007
163
43
Except for the fact, no document should dictate how I use things I purchase. I didn't buy a license of the book, I bought the book. Where and how I read it is my decision.

People are too easy to give up their fundamental rights of property ownership. We're not talking about guns here and the need to regulate that, we're talking about goods that should be very simple. Games, books, movies, tv shows, songs, etc.

You're not buying an object like a television or a hammer, you're buying information, which the people who created it are selling you the rights to use under certain circumstances.

You are purchasing the rights to some intellectual property, to be consumed or used only within certain pre-approved contexts. You clicked "I agree" or flipped past the copy-rights page in your book, laid down the money, and accepted those terms.

If you don't like the circumstances under which you are being sold the information (book, music, movie, etc.) then don't purchase it. You only have the rights to that information that you were assigned and no sense of entitlement trumps that. That's not to say that you can't desire to do more or petition the company or person who sold it to you for the rights to do more with your purchase, but you are breaking a contract that you agreed to whenever you take matters into your own hands without approval.

In short: You agreed to a license to use certain property, not the actual property itself. You can play golf on the golf course during pre-approved times, not do whatever you want on or with the course at your whim, you need approval first.
 

tekilla

macrumors member
Apr 11, 2008
95
0
Just installed it and it flew through the few odd songs I've ever bought from the iTunes Store and 2 iBooks.

It also removed the DRM from an iStore movie which means I can now watch it through PS3 Media Server on my TV.

Google for "Requiem 3.3 Download" and you might (or might not) find a Demonoid torrent.

Enjoy.
 

scottsjack

macrumors 68000
Aug 25, 2010
1,906
311
Arizona
This is why I never purchase content from Apple-- I like to own my stuff without stipulations as to how my stuff can or can't be used.

This is a move in the right direction-- until it gets blocked of course.

Exactly. . . and my own stuff is oh so much better quality. As in;

Hi Def music purchased from HDTracks in FLAC, easy to convert to an iTunes format, even sounds better when degraded slightly so it can play on a primitive (musically speaking) iPhone.

Blu-ray often purchased for less money (occasionally way less) than Apple's 720P, restricted-use movies, ripped to MKV or iTunes-friendly format.

If you want something of more than easy-to-download consumer quality Apple is not the place to get it from.
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
But DRM based readers and books do that. I can switch from my iPhone, back to my iPad all I want with a book. I can do this on my Kindle App as well between devices. The DRM is just keeping you from emailing your favorite NY Times Best Seller discovery to 5 friends and distant family members so they can read it while you too are still reading it. DRM simply makes a digital book behave more like a physical book (yet better). You may not bring that 1,200 page tome in off the bed-side table to the Doctor's office either. Now you can at least read it at home on a tablet and pickup where you left off at the Doctor's on your phone. And, with a DRM book, you can have it on countless devices so that you, your spouse and whole family (same household) can read, simultaneously that single purchase. Can't do that with a paperback or hardback.

Long time ago, when iBooks, Kindle or Nook didn't even exist I had bought a lot of books in Mobipocket and lit format.

Now there is no program than can read them with DRM. Solution? deDRM and convert to epub or read on a Kindle
 

mdriftmeyer

macrumors 68040
Feb 2, 2004
3,813
1,989
Pacific Northwest
Why havent people just embraced Kindle platform across all devices. Its the most universal and syncs across all patforms seamlessly.

Kindle on...........

Kindle3g
Kindle touch
Kindle fire
Kindle keyboard
iPod Touch
iPhone 3G
iPhone 3GS
iPhone 4
iPhone 4S
iPad 1
iPad 2
Macbook
Macbook Air
Macbook Pro
Mac Pro
Android
Windows


Need I say more?

Mobi is a garbage standard. ePub 3.x is HTML 5/CSS 3 subset and therefore has a huge present and future footprint.

With Amazon's interest in WebKit they'll eventually move to ePub.
 

tido2012

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2010
144
0
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

bsolar said:
Hacking DRM may allow you to read your legal content on other devices you own (and Apple et al need to make that easier to do, as Kindle has done for iPad and iPhone), but the main end result will be ripped books proliferating on the web for free downloading much as has happened to music. So authors won't get paid for their labor. Kind of like if you labored all day at your job, and then someone took youR paycheck and set it on fire.
Maybe you are not aware of this, but even now you can download a huge load of pirated ebooks quickly and easily. DRM was never effective with music, was never effective with movies, it will not be effective with ebooks.

iTunes is the prime example on how you can beat piracy: offer the right price for quality content and make it very, very easy to buy and get. No more hunting for cover images, no more having to tag the downloaded mp3's correctly, no more buying a song you figure out you don't like...

I was traying to figure out why this was such big news, glad I was able to read your post. I have to admit that I haven't purchased a book from iTunes since you can't read it on the computer whereas with the amazon books, you can, I guess I never thought about deDRM'ing or to look it up since it was just easier to buy it in the amazon format even though it's not as nice as iBooks. Im personally looking forward to reading more about this, as for people downloading illegal copies...they already do. I'm in the medical field and there are a ton of places online where you can get PDF copies, I have no clue how they do it, but I've seen them and the quality is insane.
 

SeaFox

macrumors 68030
Jul 22, 2003
2,620
954
Somewhere Else
Oh no! Now iBooks can be replicated cheaply and easily, makng them more available to all.

We must keep this technology from the serfs. :D
 

MacinDoc

macrumors 68020
Mar 22, 2004
2,268
11
The Great White North
What many posters here don't seem to appreciate is that Apple isn't attaching DRM to content for its own purposes. Apple has long been a proponent of DRM-free content. When Apple signed content providers to make their content available on iTunes and iBooks, it had to fight for users to be allowed to use purchased content on an unlimited number of devices associated with a single iTunes account. The condition that content providers required was that the content be limited from use beyond these devices through the attachment of DRM. Now, whenever that DRM is circumvented, Apple is contractually obliged to remedy the situation. The ongoing battle to crack Apple's DRM actually threatens Apple's ability to provide content, because content providers may in the future refuse to sell their wares to Apple because they don't believe that Apple is adequately protecting their intellectual property.

So, by all means, if you want to have less and less content available in iBooks, continue to advocate the bypassing of its DRM.
 

GaryPDX

macrumors member
Mar 8, 2008
80
29
Portland, OR USA
Apple's stubborn refusal to offer an iBooks reader for OS X means Amazon gets my business every time. I haven't yet found a title I want that is unique to iBooks. In fact Apple's catalog is small by comparison. Can't fathom their reasoning.
 

kingtj

macrumors 68030
Oct 23, 2003
2,606
749
Brunswick, MD
Old argument is getting OLD ....

Your argument, below, is full of holes.

For starters, the people actually MAKING the information the end-users wish to purchase aren't the same people putting all the usage restrictions in place. Unfortunately, the legal system upholds the right of the content distributors to apply all these limitations on your usage, even if the content creators themselves don't want those in place at all.

So basically, I don't have the option of actually buying the information from its source. If I want the content at all, my options are either to agree to some self-serving and overly restrictive usage license as I pay a distributor, OR simply "pirate" a copy of it, costing me nothing but my time and a little bandwidth, and agreeing to nothing.

Your "golf course" analogy fails, because golf courses and their usage restrictions are put in place by the owners of the courses themselves. They own the property you want to use, and the law always says you are illegally trespassing if you're on their property without their express permission.

To compare it to the digital content situation we're all dealing with today, it would be more like a golf course owned by "Joe Golfman", who put the course together hoping as many golfers would use and enjoy it as possible. But unfortunately, his course was very difficult to find and most people trying to find it on their own by driving around simply got lost and gave up. So Joe decided he needed to market his course, but didn't have much money left to do it after spending it all building the awesome course. Along came a company promising they could promote Joe Golfman's course to practically everyone who enjoyed golf, and make sure they found it. Only catch? Joe had to sign over his property rights to them and agree to let them run everything. Next thing you know, they advertised Golfman's course to thousands of excited customers-to-be, but to their dismay, they found a huge number of rules were being enforced that made using the course impractical or impossible in some cases. No golfing for more than 15 minutes per session. No using your own clubs; must rent the course issued clubs only. No golfing on holes 5, 7, or 10 after 11AM weekdays.

Joe was outraged but what could he do? He signed the deal to turn it over to them....


You're not buying an object like a television or a hammer, you're buying information, which the people who created it are selling you the rights to use under certain circumstances.

You are purchasing the rights to some intellectual property, to be consumed or used only within certain pre-approved contexts. You clicked "I agree" or flipped past the copy-rights page in your book, laid down the money, and accepted those terms.

If you don't like the circumstances under which you are being sold the information (book, music, movie, etc.) then don't purchase it. You only have the rights to that information that you were assigned and no sense of entitlement trumps that. That's not to say that you can't desire to do more or petition the company or person who sold it to you for the rights to do more with your purchase, but you are breaking a contract that you agreed to whenever you take matters into your own hands without approval.

In short: You agreed to a license to use certain property, not the actual property itself. You can play golf on the golf course during pre-approved times, not do whatever you want on or with the course at your whim, you need approval first.
 

Oletros

macrumors 603
Jul 27, 2009
6,002
60
Premià de Mar
The ongoing battle to crack Apple's DRM actually threatens Apple's ability to provide content, because content providers may in the future refuse to sell their wares to Apple because they don't believe that Apple is adequately protecting their intellectual property.

So, by all means, if you want to have less and less content available in iBooks, continue to advocate the bypassing of its DRM.

Yap, because Amazon, B&N or Sony have less and less content because their DRM has been cracked
 
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risc

macrumors 68030
Jul 23, 2004
2,756
0
Melbourne, Australia
Software on Apple hardware has been hacked as long as there has been Apple hardware. Stupid pirates... killing Apple since the 1970's... RIP Apple... oh wait you have how much in the bank?
 

ScottishDuck

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2010
660
970
Argyll, Scotland
Oh look we're seeing the old myth of piracy hurting artists again.

Here's a sad fact for you, people pay for good content. If an artist isn't making money it's probably because they are making trash.

We so often see the word "entitlement" attached to pirates, well what about all these "artists" who think that writing a book or recording a song, regardless of quality, entitles them to a massive paycheck?
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
What many posters here don't seem to appreciate is that Apple isn't attaching DRM to content for its own purposes. Apple has long been a proponent of DRM-free content. When Apple signed content providers to make their content available on iTunes and iBooks, it had to fight for users to be allowed to use purchased content on an unlimited number of devices associated with a single iTunes account. The condition that content providers required was that the content be limited from use beyond these devices through the attachment of DRM. Now, whenever that DRM is circumvented, Apple is contractually obliged to remedy the situation. The ongoing battle to crack Apple's DRM actually threatens Apple's ability to provide content, because content providers may in the future refuse to sell their wares to Apple because they don't believe that Apple is adequately protecting their intellectual property.

So, by all means, if you want to have less and less content available in iBooks, continue to advocate the bypassing of its DRM.

I think Apple being DRM free is more all talk than anything else. Apple could of forced its hand on going DRM free a lot sooner. The biggest reason Apple made its music DRM free is it could see the writing on the wall that it was going to start losing in court and be forced to licences out fairplay. It was getting closer and closer to losing in court. Apple wanted to keep its lock in longer at on what would be more important (videos) and streaming content.
 

Starship77

macrumors regular
Aug 30, 2006
206
116
I mean it makes sense... I pay for a book with my own dollars....why is Apple telling me, "no, you cant read that on a laptop"..... What if for heavens sake, today, i feel like reading it on my laptop......i dont understand why it must be the Apple way or the highway......this is why i have embraced kndle platform on iOS and Mac OS as in my post above

I don't know if it's really the "Apple way"… it's more like the "Publishers way", cause I think if it was just for Apple, they would probably have everything DRM-free just like music…

But to be fair, when you buy a physical book, you pay for it "with your own dollars" and you can't read that on your laptop or kindle too, and no one is complaining. The problem is that, when something is digital, it seems so "easy" that it looks like it should be allowed.
 

tido2012

macrumors regular
Jul 20, 2010
144
0
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A405 Safari/7534.48.3)

Interesting, I didn't know that. Quick question since you seem to know more than I do about this. Any reason why certain medical books can't be purchased from iTunes but they are available on amazon. I can't remember which book I tried to purchase on iTunes but has to get it on amazon.
 

faroZ06

macrumors 68040
Apr 3, 2009
3,387
1
stupid pirates!

it was only a matter of time though

DRM-killers are not pirates, just people who don't want to deal with stupid DRM. The DRMs on songs glitched out for me a lot and didn't let me play songs I was authorized to play.

And why can't you use ebooks on Mac OS? WTF I'm sticking to PDF.
 

Starship77

macrumors regular
Aug 30, 2006
206
116
From Requiem's read me file:

WARNING:

This program is not intended to promote piracy. I just wanted to play
my iTunes songs on a SlimServer! As such, the output file is only
minimally modified to remove the DRM. It still has lots of
information in it identifying you.
 

JohnDoe98

macrumors 68020
May 1, 2009
2,488
99
I don't know if it's really the "Apple way"… it's more like the "Publishers way", cause I think if it was just for Apple, they would probably have everything DRM-free just like music…

But to be fair, when you buy a physical book, you pay for it "with your own dollars" and you can't read that on your laptop or kindle too, and no one is complaining. The problem is that, when something is digital, it seems so "easy" that it looks like it should be allowed.

When I buy a physical book I can read it on my computer, I just have to scan it first, using software and hardware, kinda like what I do to my digital purchases with this App called Requiem. Sorry I don't see what your complaint is about.
 
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