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Tiger8

macrumors 68020
May 23, 2011
2,479
649
Really, there are Blackberry phones that exhibit good engineering? Every time I touch one, I feel like I just time-warped back in time 10 years.

:rolleyes:

Never underestimate what Blackberry did to smartphone industry; before the iPhone was even a thought Blackberry had smartphones (from the 90s). They have fallen on hard times but you can't deny them their legacy.

Same thing with Nokia - if it wasn't for Nokia, cell phones wouldn't be what they are today.
 

kerrikins

macrumors 65816
Sep 22, 2012
1,242
530
Really, there are Blackberry phones that exhibit good engineering? Every time I touch one, I feel like I just time-warped back in time 10 years.

:rolleyes:

If they didn't have good engineering, they wouldn't have been the go-to smartphone for both business users and consumers for so long.

What happened is that when the iPhone came out and the market started to shift, the CEOs and top management shoved their heads in the sand and determinedly ignored it. They thought that the iPhone was just a flash in the pan, then they thought that business users would never be attracted to touch screens, then they thought that enterprise would always stick with them.

When they finally did change, it was too little, too late, and that's why they're failing.
 

melgross

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2004
446
394
New York City
So I assume that you don't work for a major publicly traded corporation then?

When you work for a large organization your hands are tied by what management wants to do. The management at RIM could not see the forest for the trees and insisted on trying to milk their BES ecosystem for all they could before they even considered looking at a replacement for their Operating System. BB 10 was too little too late and had they moved two years earlier, they might have had a fighting chance.

It is hard to make bricks without straw.

As for their build quality, I understand that began to deteriorate even further as they switched OEMs in an effort to cut costs.

Their phones were never well made. They had a reputation for junky feeling phones, and devices, even before they were actual phones. They all felt plasticky and cheap. Several friends who had them needed to get them replaced on a regular basis.
 

Chuck-Norris

macrumors 6502a
Sep 17, 2012
850
1
kinda sad to see a canadian company fall out like thiss.

i think the only way for blackberry to come back some how is to adopt android with blackberry features. have any benefits left of blackberry and the entire ecosystem of android.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,612
6,907
Really, there are Blackberry phones that exhibit good engineering? Every time I touch one, I feel like I just time-warped back in time 10 years.

:rolleyes:

Apple doesn't need hardware engineers, they have that down pat.

Apple could benefit from talented software engineers experienced with cloud and enterprise integration, both of which are Apple weaknesses.
 

melgross

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2004
446
394
New York City
Never underestimate what Blackberry did to smartphone industry; before the iPhone was even a thought Blackberry had smartphones (from the 90s). They have fallen on hard times but you can't deny them their legacy.

Same thing with Nokia - if it wasn't for Nokia, cell phones wouldn't be what they are today.

What smartphones did they have from the '90's? What I remember from then was that they didn't have phones. They were mainly messaging and e-mail devices. Their smartphones came later.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,900
But seriously, one would think that the employees still at BB are going to be the most valuable. Seems like a good plan to get some of them before they go to Facebook, Google, or Samsung.

Too late, in fact Apple seems a bit late to the party ......

Motorola/Google is setting up shop in Waterloo. ( no immgration or relocation to stratospherically high cost of living necessary. Or bozos in the national capital threatening to throw the economy under the bus so they can score political points. )

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/26/us-google-motorola-waterloo-idUSBRE98P1C720130926

Samsung was poaching talent back in June

http://forums.crackberry.com/general-blackberry-discussion-f2/samsungs-new-hire-822138/
 

Taz Mangus

macrumors 604
Mar 10, 2011
7,815
3,504
Really, there are Blackberry phones that exhibit good engineering? Every time I touch one, I feel like I just time-warped back in time 10 years.

:rolleyes:

This isn't the problem with the BB engineers it is the management. The management were the ones who defined what the product was going to look and feel like. Engineering executed the product that the management wanted. There is probably a lot of enterprise expertise that Apple can pickup from BB.
 

KdParker

macrumors 601
Oct 1, 2010
4,793
998
Everywhere
Not much needed to lure them....

Work for a hugely successful company or take your chances with a company that is being sold off one piece at a time?
 

Carlanga

macrumors 604
Nov 5, 2009
7,132
1,409
If I was apple I would have just bought the whole company. 5billion is affordable on their wallets.
Get the patents, bbm, and selected few good personnel then sell and throw away the rest.
 

melgross

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2004
446
394
New York City
If they didn't have good engineering, they wouldn't have been the go-to smartphone for both business users and consumers for so long.

What happened is that when the iPhone came out and the market started to shift, the CEOs and top management shoved their heads in the sand and determinedly ignored it. They thought that the iPhone was just a flash in the pan, then they thought that business users would never be attracted to touch screens, then they thought that enterprise would always stick with them.

When they finally did change, it was too little, too late, and that's why they're failing.

Blackberry's did what nothing else did at the time with messaging and e-mail before they had smartphones. The fact that they weren't made all that well was a secondary concern since they performed a service that was unique at the time. When they did come out with a smartphone, it was used because it simply continued from where the older devices left off.

If there's nothing that does what you think you need, then problems such as reliability are of less importance. It's not as though they broke down every week. But replacing a device two, or even three times a year for a major business isn't that onerous, and I suspect that RIM made some allowances. Remember that their hardware margins were as high as 60% at one point. High prices and cheap build will often lead to that. But it makes replacement less of a problem for the manufacturer. And then, they charged a lot for BES, among other things, such as charging the carriers as well. So the phones themselves were commodity in nature, even though RIM was making huge profits off them as well.
 

chirpie

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2010
646
183
Miracle Max: With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.
Inigo Montoya: What's that?
Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.
 

melgross

macrumors 6502
Jan 23, 2004
446
394
New York City
If I was apple I would have just bought the whole company. 5billion is affordable on their wallets.
Get the patents, bbm, and selected few good personnel then sell and throw away the rest.

Honestly, despite what we read, I doubt if the company is really worth $5 billion. It's worth is dropping daily. Doesn't mean that the parts might not sell for that much. But objectively, as sales drop precipitously, the value of the rest of the company drops in lockstep.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,900
Apple could benefit from talented software engineers experienced with cloud and enterprise integration, both of which are Apple weaknesses.

It is very doubtful that is the subset of Blackberry that will shutdown. It will be harder to displace those folks from the part where there is high expectation that it will get picked up. Additionally, I don't think Apple wants to weasel deeper into the big enterprise server room. That is why they opened up iOS device management to 3rd parties who would provide that service.


Apple already has a network operation center that rivals what Blackberry has. ( iMessage and notification traffic on Apple's servers is higher than tranaction rates on legacy BB stuff. The latter has plateaued and the question is how rapidly will it decline. ). Blackberry isn't doing anything operationally that Apple isn't already doing. The enterprise server business is different because Apple doesn't have a relatively high margin "cash cow" software server/service business.


I don't think they are looking for whole small "chunks" of Blackberry. Far more so extremely talented folks who are pissed off at having their hard work flushed down the drain by goofy management decisions. Apple will pitch the "we don't have many bozos here" line and make an offer if there is slot they need to fill or can afford (or want) some talent redundancy.
 

wxman2003

Suspended
Apr 12, 2011
2,580
294
Apple recently terminated their cleaning contract. BlackBerry employees are needed to clean the bathrooms. Low labor cost and available people with those skill sets. Match made in heaven.
 

Tiger8

macrumors 68020
May 23, 2011
2,479
649
What smartphones did they have from the '90's? What I remember from then was that they didn't have phones. They were mainly messaging and e-mail devices. Their smartphones came later.

I stand corrected.. You are right, the original blackberry was more of a a pager / email device, it is in the early 2000s they released their smartphone.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,900
Honestly, despite what we read, I doubt if the company is really worth $5 billion. It's worth is dropping daily. Doesn't mean that the parts might not sell for that much. But objectively, as sales drop precipitously, the value of the rest of the company drops in lockstep.

The sales are dropping in part because the uncertainty is raising because what is going to happen is up in the air. Plus there is low confidence they are even focused on the right things... Last Winter/Spring they were pissing around with corporate jet crap.

http://allthingsd.com/20130923/blackberrys-selling-off-its-corporate-jets/

and articles like this inspire no confidence in the products.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...blackberry-is-failing/article14563602/?page=1



The major problem that Blackberry had was that management was disconnected from reality. It isn't so much that BB10 models sales are dropping as much as they didn't spike like they unreasonably expected them to. The Z10 was priced to high ( it was late and should have been shifted down in price from the start). BB also contracted to make too many of them. The Z30 is also far too high off contract.


Sales were going to drop during the transition, but they had over $3B to do the transition with. Instead what they did was blow a huge chunk of that buffer on inventory costs instead of transition costs.

I also don't think the parts are worth more separate as some are spinning. The cash cow BB server business is largely propped up by headset deployments. If killing off and separate that then the premium server pricing will have to give.

The QNX stuff wasn't highly coupled yet.
 

musika

macrumors 65816
Sep 2, 2010
1,285
459
New York
I'm sure that there are some excellent people at Blackberry. This is good.

On a slightly unrelated note, I miss Palm.
 
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deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,309
3,900
The last part of this story isn't exactly correct. Blackberry has been shopping themselves around to a number of companies that Blackberry thinks could be interested. These other companies haven't expressed interest on their own.

No. What is generally being "whispered" is that none of the companies wanted the "whole thing". Their have been folks interested in parts, but nobody wanted the whole thing.

There would be few, if any, buyers for the whole thing if it was healthy. Distressed only makes it all that much harder to sell. Microsoft pealling off the other major distressed company largely in this space and billions of deep pockets to throw at fixing that is probably the last straw that broke the back. It doesn't help that they are yet again grasping at yet another tactic of break up now.






The concept that Cisco and some others may be interested in parts of the company are purely speculative on the parts of those who have been writing articles on this development. As far as I know, so far none of these companies have responded positively to any of this publicly.

Why would they drive up interest in the sub part they are about to buy. When out to buy a company generally don't advertise that ahead of time. That isn't going to get you a lower price.

Nor has there been any reliable reports of them doing so privately.

Cisco never did make any sense ( they seemed to be on people's lists because they were "big enough" to do it and have done major acquisitions in the past). . Samsung has made some crafted responses as to not interested in whole company. If there weren't interested in any of it they could have said.

As much as "sue everyone else" is the active strategy these days the patents are likely the most valuable piece that can be cleanly broken off. Remember BB was in the cabal with Microsoft and Apple that bought up the Nortel stuff so not only get the BB ones but get inoculation against the troll company they set up for the Nortel ones. Samsung is completely disinterested in that ? That doesn't seem likely. Nor various other shops that were in overlapping businesses with Nortel.








Nevertheless, Blackberry's stock has again been rising on all of this speculation. I'm wondering if it isn't a ruse on the part of Blackberry, and possibly Fairfax, with the stock price rise a hopefully result.

Fairfax doesn't want the price to rise over their offer. By all appearances they are having trouble raising the money to cover what they originally offered; let alone something even higher.

Far more likely the price will drop and Fairfax might buy what is left over at their now attractive price. Or some partner may jump in with Fairfax and buy the whole at a minor markup and they agree on how to chop up what is left.


I'm suspicious of everything happening around Blackberry. And Watsa right now, is not to be trusted, as he has lost literally billions on his failed investment in RIM over the years, and is desperate to get some of it back.

I suspect Farifax thought it would be easier to line up the money and construct a Canandian buy so this would have gone more smoothly and quickly. Probably isn't just Watsa/Farifax at this point as some of the vulture capital breakup folks are combing through BB books and they has zero interest in whole thing... just the break-up and salvage operation. The lower the stock price the more money they make.
 

skoorbevad

macrumors member
Mar 23, 2007
77
0
Blackberry is still the only mobile platform with actual enterprise-grade security. It's why it still has a hold within corporate and particularly federal/state governments.

IOS and Android are way behind in that department. They're both security nightmares that corporations are being forced to address due to demand of the platforms. IOS is slightly better than Android, but both are way behind RIM in this department.

Both IOS and Android are improving, however, but there's a long way to go.
 

waldobushman

macrumors regular
Mar 3, 2011
110
0
I would have thought the best of BBM would have already abandoned ship. But, it doesn't hurt to ask BBM employees to submit resumes. If the quality Apple needs is not there, Apple won't hire.
 
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