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CrackedButter

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2003
3,221
0
51st State of America
@matticus008, I'm glad you posted what you have regarding the TI and Agere chipsets. I don't know much about such things and took people for their word when they were outlining the difference between the 2. I caught your post by accident and I'm glad I have, made me think.
 

azaas

macrumors newbie
Dec 17, 2008
13
0
As a student studying economics i can say that this is good news....Given the recession in the states,the lack of stability and the fear of consumers and investors to spend money -recession periods translate in a tendency to save money from private investors and consumers and a tendency from the State and the Global Organizations to spend money on several fields of the economic system- a company shows dropped sales of a combined 1%. So in a country where car companies literally beg for 14 bil $,where the biggest state is almost bankrupt and where the number of unemployed people raises daily in amazing rates there's a company that suffered just 1% sales dropped,which came mainly from desktops comps some of which haven't even been updated for the last year and a half...

Wall Street almost got out of job yet Apple's sales dropped 1%...

Seriously no worries there ^^ hehe
 

akm3

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2007
2,252
279
Exactly. I have been wanting to get a Mac for a long time now, but I just refuse to pay Apple's ridiculous prices. Yesterday, I went out and bought an HP with 3GB memory, 350 GB hard drive, Intel Dual Core processor, 19" wide screen monitor and a HP printer for $599. You can make all the jokes you want about Microsoft and Vista, but the fact is for the average user like me it works just fine. Maybe someday when Apple wakes up and realizes that there are only so many people in this world that can afford their high prices they will drop them and start selling more units.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of car do you drive?

This argument is like saying Mercedes should have a car priced to compete with Kia. Would Mercedes rather sell 1,000 cars for $100 profit each or 10 cars for $10,000 profit each?

Keep in mind, the high end customer who don't mind paying 'more for less' with Mercedes, probably wouldn't stay with the brand if they also had a cheaply made, very common crappy car in the line-up. Ultimately, Mercedes would end up losing because to compete with Kia at the low end, you have to BECOME Kia at the low end.

The strategy of targeting affluent, high-disposable income consumers who want a premium, aspiration product with a high barrier to entry has put $25,000,000,000 cash in the bank for Apple. I think it's working. Same with iPod. Sansa Fuze does everything it does (technically), but you pay more for a more premium experience and being in the (not so exclusive) 'club'.
 

hulugu

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2003
1,834
16,455
quae tangit perit Trump
...Maybe someday when Apple wakes up and realizes that there are only so many people in this world that can afford their high prices they will drop them and start selling more units.

Well, there's a balance in there for Apple. It reminds me of the old joke, "we're selling them for less than we paid for them, but we make it up on volume."

At some point, Apple remains profitable and thus can spend oodles of money on R&D if it allows for enough of a margin. Now, we can argue about what's an appropriate margin, but we have to allow for that.
One of Dell's biggest problems has been in the rush for the bottom, they've created a margin so thin that any small change can have serious consequences. This is part of the reason they've tried to compete against the iPod, purchased Alienware, and push their higher-margin servers and network storage devices.
 

robanga

macrumors 68000
Aug 25, 2007
1,657
1
Oregon
Well, there's a balance in there for Apple. It reminds me of the old joke, "we're selling them for less than we paid for them, but we make it up on volume."

At some point, Apple remains profitable and thus can spend oodles of money on R&D if it allows for enough of a margin. Now, we can argue about what's an appropriate margin, but we have to allow for that.
One of Dell's biggest problems has been in the rush for the bottom, they've created a margin so thin that any small change can have serious consequences. This is part of the reason they've tried to compete against the iPod, purchased Alienware, and push their higher-margin servers and network storage devices.

Well said, I don't care how cheap your operating costs are or how many engineers you employ in places like India at a lower wage, there is a floor to the business model. Profit is a good thing, and Apple has done a very good job in maintaining higher margins in a sea of competitors fighting it out at the bottom.
 

archipellago

macrumors 65816
Aug 16, 2008
1,155
0
Exactly. I have been wanting to get a Mac for a long time now, but I just refuse to pay Apple's ridiculous prices. Yesterday, I went out and bought an HP with 3GB memory, 350 GB hard drive, Intel Dual Core processor, 19" wide screen monitor and a HP printer for $599. You can make all the jokes you want about Microsoft and Vista, but the fact is for the average user like me it works just fine. Maybe someday when Apple wakes up and realizes that there are only so many people in this world that can afford their high prices they will drop them and start selling more units.

with those specs Vista will run fine, as good as Leopard even :eek::eek:

welcome back!
 

pubwvj

macrumors 68000
Oct 1, 2004
1,901
208
Mountains of Vermont
Exactly. I have been wanting to get a Mac for a long time now, but I just refuse to pay Apple's ridiculous prices. Yesterday, I went out and bought an HP with 3GB memory, 350 GB hard drive, Intel Dual Core processor, 19" wide screen monitor and a HP printer for $599. You can make all the jokes you want about Microsoft and Vista, but the fact is for the average user like me it works just fine. Maybe someday when Apple wakes up and realizes that there are only so many people in this world that can afford their high prices they will drop them and start selling more units.

I hear paper and pencil work just as well and only cost $3.99.
 

therealdt

macrumors regular
Oct 4, 2008
212
0
northeast region
Exactly. I have been wanting to get a Mac for a long time now, but I just refuse to pay Apple's ridiculous prices. Yesterday, I went out and bought an HP with 3GB memory, 350 GB hard drive, Intel Dual Core processor, 19" wide screen monitor and a HP printer for $599. You can make all the jokes you want about Microsoft and Vista, but the fact is for the average user like me it works just fine. Maybe someday when Apple wakes up and realizes that there are only so many people in this world that can afford their high prices they will drop them and start selling more units.

Apple is doing just fine. They know their 'market' is and don't plan on doing otherwise.

I'm on a Dell now, I wanted a Mac for sometime now, I paid out 9 and some change. Why? This is what I wanted, Macs to me are worth that extra 300 bucks. This will be my last time I'll use a PC for personal reasons. (it's a Xmas present and must wait...:()

Apple is in the black, they don't have to sell their laptops at 500 bucks. I'm not a fanboy, just saying Apple is not hurting for cash.
 

MagnusVonMagnum

macrumors 603
Jun 18, 2007
5,193
1,442
Just out of curiosity, what kind of car do you drive?

This argument is like saying Mercedes should have a car priced to compete with Kia. Would Mercedes rather sell 1,000 cars for $100 profit each or 10 cars for $10,000 profit each?

If you're comparing a Mac Mini to a Mercedes you need some serious help, IMO.
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
The strategy of targeting affluent, high-disposable income consumers who want a premium, aspiration product with a high barrier to entry has put $25,000,000,000 cash in the bank for Apple.

Yes. Too bad the "premium" products obviously didn't include materials worth the price. If they did, Apple wouldn't have so much cash.

At some point, Apple remains profitable and thus can spend oodles of money on R&D if it allows for enough of a margin.

If only they did spend on R&D.

Apple spends what? About 1/5 the R&D percentage of other major computer corporation? Just imagine if they actually spent some of that extra cash on more engineers and designers.
 

4armshiver

macrumors newbie
Oct 9, 2008
6
0
Price Drop?

What Apple has done in the past is just give you more bang for your buck. I don't see them drastically dropping their prices. Updating their products in their mind is the same as dropping their prices. But the question is will this continue to appeal to the casual computer user, which are the customers they should be fighting their competitors for.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,434
12,250
UK
...like obviously and in futility trying to hype Apple crashing stock, appparently.

:apple:

He bought so long ago that he's still made a profit. And every other stock has done badly too. Anyhow bows a great time to buy more Apple stock.

If you're comparing a Mac Mini to a Mercedes you need some serious help, IMO.

I've compared them to Tiffany too in the past. He's completely reasonable to compare to other luxury goods manufacturers. If Apple wanted to compete more widely they'd licence their OS.

PS the only recent shifty apple machines were the first Intels.
 

dwl017

macrumors 6502a
Mar 10, 2007
562
0
Murder Capitol DC
Currently I have a 2.66 Ghz Quad Mac Pro, introduced first in 2006. I bought it in 2007.

I've had it for a year and a half but the model is two years old and honestly it's plenty fast for what I do, and with Snow Leopard it should be faster.

The next Mac Pro will be Core I7 based and a screamer no doubt. But where will it beat my current machine? Video encoding and number crunching apps.

My machine handbrakes movies plenty fast enough for my needs, creates dvds and handles iMovie projects and my photography wonderfully. The only needed upgrade is video as I'm still running the 7300....but that's only a video card swap away.

People who make their living in the video world will no doubt be all over the New Mac Pros. I can't see myself upgrading until something like 16 cores are standard. When will that be? 2 years? 3 years?

I know it's been beat like a dead horse but I think Apple hurts itself on the desktop side by not having something in between the pro and iMac/Mini.

The iMac is great for people like my inlaws and parents who want an elegant solution, no mess, no fuss.

The mini is a good intro mac for the kids and grandma. People with little space, good working monitors and want something small and cheap (in mac terms) to email and surf the web.

What about the customers who want a traditional desktop but don't need the size and power of the Mac Pro? The midsize tower with a core2duo, a killer Ive's designed case and an upgradable GPU.

The lack of that machine hurts desktop sales. It would eat some Mac Pro sales but only from customers who are buying Pros simply because Apple lacks the machine above.

You can call these two Dell systems junk all you want, at least they give the people want they want.

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/desktop-studio-mini?c=us&cs=19&l=en&ref=dthp&s=dhs

http://www.dell.com/studioxps
 

dwl017

macrumors 6502a
Mar 10, 2007
562
0
Murder Capitol DC
Sure, and they run Windoze. Everybody's tastes vary. Some people like spam. If you do, get a PC and enjoy.

What is the real difference for the adult user who is just doing the following:

-Checking email once or twice a day only on the weekend (*Sits in front of PC all day every day at work)
-surfing the web 30- 40 mins a day ** Weekend only
-Uploading family photos from the digital cam, 2 maybe 4 times a year
*Might make one or two movies a year from a few family photos
*Might make one or two movies a year from the family camcorder

Can anyone please tell me why the adult user above should buy a Mac over a PC? what is the advanatge of Mac over PC using the points above for John Doe user?

*Keep in mind that this is an adult professional not surfing porn, not using peer to peer sites etc. not using Face Book not downloading songs or surfing to any other corrupt web sites. I would put this person in the age bracket of 45 and above. ** Not using IM chat services etc.

Disclaimer:

I am a huge fan of both platforms and have owned both but I would really like to know how many Apple users are really just using there "high end" Macs to nothing more then surf the web, chat and check email.
 

BenRoethig

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,729
0
Dubuque, Iowa

dwl017

macrumors 6502a
Mar 10, 2007
562
0
Murder Capitol DC
From what I've seen of the Studio and XPS lines, they're of much better quality than your average flimsy plastic Dell Inspiron. Of course they still run Vista.

I agree but if you are not a video editor or a photographer does having a premium OS make that much of a difference to the user who is just checking email and doing some light surfing on the weekends etc..

I have never heard a solid argument stating why this user would be better off with a Mac which clearly will cost more then a flimsy palstic Dell. Getting back to the thread topic, the world as we know it is a much different place then it was just a year ago and I really wonder how long Apple will be able to sustain this arrogant attidue going into the future.
 

Eric S.

macrumors 68040
Feb 1, 2008
3,599
0
Santa Cruz Mountains, California
What is the real difference for the adult user who is just doing the following:

-Checking email once or twice a day only on the weekend (*Sits in front of PC all day every day at work)
-surfing the web 30- 40 mins a day ** Weekend only
-Uploading family photos from the digital cam, 2 maybe 4 times a year
*Might make one or two movies a year from a few family photos
*Might make one or two movies a year from the family camcorder

Can anyone please tell me why the adult user above should buy a Mac over a PC? what is the advanatge of Mac over PC using the points above for John Doe user?

Macs don't have viruses that will wipe out your entire system? (Like what happened to my wife's Windows laptop.)
 

BenRoethig

macrumors 68030
Jul 17, 2002
2,729
0
Dubuque, Iowa
I have never heard a solid argument stating why this user would be better off with a Mac which clearly will cost more then a flimsy palstic Dell.

If you're in the class of user who would need something in the class of that studio XPS or above, I can't think of one until you reach the actual need for a workstation except for the OS factor.

If you're in the market for a family computer, I can think of a lot of reasons an all in one makes sense. Recently my parents old HP finally crapped out giving me the perfect opportunity to unload my 18-month old ALU iMac on them. The old HP was wire city. Power cords for both the tower and the display, power and input cords for crappy 2.0 speakers, DVI cable, ethernet cable, mouse cable, keyboard cable, and the power and USB cables for the printer. That's ten different cables, eleven if they had a webcam.

The display, computer, and (much better sounding) 2.0 speakers are in a single unit reducing five cords to one. Webcam is also included. It has 802.11n wireless networking (that's finally fixed in 10.5.6), so it doesn't need the ethernet cable. The keyboard has a built in unpowered USB hub so the mouse connects to it using one port instead of two. You can even save the use of cables all together with built in bluetooth. The printer requires those two cables regardless. It also has a card reader/ 3-Port USB2.0 combo with the USB cable and a power cables. This also was mine, they could have gotten by with just a bus powered card reader.

That's six cables instead of ten. It doesn't tell the whole story though, as the cables are managed in a much better way. Only the power cords left the top of the desk. No cables going back and forth from the top of the display to the tower. In fact, if they really wanted to, they could have used an writing desk in the living room instead the computer desk.

No we come to usability. The slot loading DVD-writer and on keyboard eject button are more convenient from them. The slower write/read speeds aren't a big deal to them. My teenage sister and friends love front row and using photobooth and iChat/Yahoo video chats. Switching users is fast with only having to choose a name in the toolbar menu. Everything is nice and convenient for them with no having to reach under the desk to insert a CD/DVD and no having to remember to turn on the separate pieces. It's also dead quiet. I've heard the fan go on exactly once in a year and a half. The only thing I think it needs is a low end sub-$1000 model with 9400M integrated graphics to replace the spot once held by cheaper G3 iMacs and the eMac. The entry level price is a little high for a family machine.

So, if its a great machine, why didn't it work for me? The same traits that make it such a great family machine work against it in the high end consumer/ low end professional (aka prosumer) market. There's not a lot of headroom in the design and the internals are hard to get at. Apple has a tendency to think in absolutes and not realize the gray areas and differing needs that exist between consumer and professional.
 

xbjllb

macrumors 65816
Jan 4, 2008
1,375
260
What Apple has done in the past is just give you more bang for your buck.

Oh, absolutely. Those killer cutting edge Mac Pro towers with the Blu-ray writers last year before the HD battle was even over just knocked sales into the stratosphere.

Why, because of that alone there isn't one high def TV show or major motion picture being made today that is edited on anything else but Mac Pro's. :rolleyes:

Except for the trailblazing ones editing HD content and recording hit songs on their iPhones... :rolleyes:

:apple:
 
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