Apple/Microsoft 'Rockstar Consortium' Sues Google, Others Over Nortel Patents

[AppleFan1984]

In spite of all the patent lawsuits, Apple has never been investigated for abusive patent litigation practices.

The night is young.

I suspect that this latest volley in the Patent Wars will cost the plaintiffs several years and more money than they paid for the patents, and eventually become the single biggest contributor to sweeping patent reform.

Let's meet back here in three years and see how it went (if the appeals are even done by then).

 

[chabig]

Exactly! I'm tired of companies not using patents and simply using them to make it harder for other companies to develop products.

There is no reason to force a company to give up a patent on an invention that they spent time and money to create just because they aren't ready to use it in a product, or are unable to bring it to market successfully at a point in time. People won't work hard to invent things if the government is going to let everyone reap the benefits for free.

Let's suppose you have some property sitting unused in your garage. Can I just come over and use it without your permission? suppose you have a riding lawnmower and I don't. But my yard is large and your mower is parked in your garage. Why shouldn't I be able to use your property to make my mowing job easier?

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Basically, they overbid.

The auction atmosphere (and Google) drove the price up to many times more than observers had thought the patents were worth. So, instead of an investment that could pay for itself, the patents have became an expense.

Nortel had already sold off many of the more valuable patents.

Many of the LTE related ones are SEP and came with FRAND restrictions. (The DOJ made all bidders promise to keep the same rates if they won.)

Interestingly, of the 6,000 patents Rockstar got, apparently only about 2,000 were still in force, and only half of those (1,000) had at least ten years of life left.

Originally it was assumed that any high bidder would be using them only for defensive purposes, and would be paying a lot simply to keep them out of patent troll hands. However, it looks like the cost got too high to sit back and do nothing with them.

Note: Every single one of those patents can receive renewed life as being superseded by a new and novel patent that leverages parts of the old patent moving forward.

 

[9000]

Did buying Motorola solve the problem for Google?

Which problem?

 

[CindyRed]

Rockstar Games should sue the Rockstar Conglomerate for going by Rockstar. Obviously infringing on their name...

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Must have missed that in business school. Who made that the definition? Some mortgage companies were giants, they failed. Could say the same for companies in the auto industry that needed nailed out. Giants fall, ask David.

I guess you misunderstand the difference between "definition" and "insinuation", in fact, I think you misunderstand the point of the entire comment. Then again, what can I expect from someone who went to business school.

 

[kdarling]

Also, I was talking about getting the attention of antitrust investigators regarding patents. In spite of all the patent lawsuits, Apple has never been investigated for abusive patent litigation practices.

As I said, they all have had antitrust investigations of various sorts. If Apple hasn't been investigated in particular for patents, it is likely because they don't have any major standards essential ones.

--

As for the EU Commission investigations of Motorola and Samsung over SEPs, people are often confused about what the investigations are about.

They're not about FRAND rates. They're not even about whether injunctions are available over SEPs at all.... because they are.

Instead, what the EUC recently decided, is that such injunctions should not be asked for _if_ the licensee "is willing to enter into a licence agreement on FRAND terms."

Note that the EUC came up with this concept AFTER a German court had granted Motorola an injunction against Apple. If the request was illegal, then that state court should have denied it, or a higher court overturned it.

It doesn't seem fair to decide retroactively that it's abuse. Make the rules clear FIRST, then enforce them.

--

Just as in the US, something good could come out of it all, and that's some firm guidelines about FRAND negotiation time limits.

For example, Samsung has offered to stop asking for injunctions if licensees agree to a negotiation time limit of 12 months, after which aribitration will decide the rates.

If the EUC takes their offer, and it looks like it might, this is a win for both sides. The licensees won't face injunctions while negotiating, and the SEP holders won't face licensees who engage in reverse holdup and don't pay any royalties for years.

 

[alexgowers]

At this rate, in 10 years all the major players will be spending much more on buying, defending and using patents than on actual product R&D and production. To say this is ludicrous is an understatement.

What are you talking about apple's spend on lawsuits is far higher than it's R&D already... for many years.

I mean come on this is the now. The weird and wonderful world of corporate business is alien to almost anyone with more than two brain cells. Corp law was created by greedy greedy corps it seems only fair they should get f'd up by their own laws and stupidness.

Patents are the most ridiculous thing and could never be enforced on individuals, it's a corp only thing and they are welcome to do each other up the arse.

 

[TheJae]

Rockstar Consortium? fancy name. Could have just named it Trevor Philips Industries.

 

[cere]

Did buying Motorola solve the problem for Google?

Different case though. Google wasn't being sued over Moto patents. In this case they are being sued over patents that BB has some involvement in, i.e. BB likely couldn't get sued for using these patents. So, if google bought BB, would they avoid this particular lawsuit and headache?

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Who did not see this coming. We knew Apple/Microsoft were going to go sue happy. There was a reason I did not want Apple getting them. Apple is the worlds largest patent troll at this point.

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No google wanted the patents to use as leverage to force Apple to back off on going sue happy. Chances are Google was not going to use it any more than to protect android from being sued by Apple and Microsoft.

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You mean like nortel LTE patents that Apple/Microsoft are suing with?

Worlds largest patent trolls are going sue happy. Who here is surprised about the patent trolls known as Apple and Microsoft going sue happy.

Umm, except that Motorola, and now by extension Google, started suing everyone before Apple sued anyone. Worse, they (google) continued to sue over FRAND patents. They were also providing their patents to their partners to use in offensive patent lawsuits.

The timeline also shows you are misguided in your blame. Rockstar and google obtained their patents from Nortel and Motorola, respectively, around the same time. It has taken until now for Rockstar to use them offensively. Google (a) continued the offensive lawsuits that Moto started and (b) up the ante by loaning out their patents to others to use offensively. Google is the one that is "sue happy" whether you recognize that fact or not.

The true patent troll in these case is, and has always been, google.

 

[Michael Goff]

And the Thermonuclear War continues, much like everybody should have expected.

 

[2bikes]

Different case though. Google wasn't being sued over Moto patents. In this case they are being sued over patents that BB has some involvement in, i.e. BB likely couldn't get sued for using these patents. So, if google bought BB, would they avoid this particular lawsuit and headache?

We don't know what is the agreement between the parties of Rockstar. Buying BB may not mean automatic access to the Rockstar patent portfolio.

Of course, Google buying BB after they have already bought Moto is a far stretched idea, I think. I dont see Google as a patent troll.

 

[gnasher729]

Basically, they overbid.

The auction atmosphere (and Google) drove the price up to many times more than observers had thought the patents were worth. So, instead of an investment that could pay for itself, the patents have became an expense.

Nortel had already sold off many of the more valuable patents.

Many of the LTE related ones are SEP and came with FRAND restrictions. (The DOJ made all bidders promise to keep the same rates if they won.)

Interestingly, of the 6,000 patents Rockstar got, apparently only about 2,000 were still in force, and only half of those (1,000) had at least ten years of life left.

Originally it was assumed that any high bidder would be using them only for defensive purposes, and would be paying a lot simply to keep them out of patent troll hands. However, it looks like the cost got too high to sit back and do nothing with them.

I would always have assumed that the winner, whoever it is, would try to get some money back. And the loser would stop at the point where (losing some money in court) is better than (paying huge amounts for patents) minus (getting some money in court).

 

[Consultant]

... I dont see Google as a patent troll.

Google, after buying Motorola, continued and make new lawsuits using SEP and patents that were already invalidated.

 

[kdarling]

Google, after buying Motorola, continued and make new lawsuits using SEP and patents that were already invalidated.

Example? Thanks!

 

[cmanderson]

Who wrote this?

Talk about way off. Try, ``...from Nortel Networks, a former Network Communications Giant ...

FWIW: Please read up on history before writing such cover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortel_Networks

You don't go from an energy company born from Bell Canada to a giant Networking Conglomerate that acquired Bay Area Networks to end up being characterized as ``a communications company....'' like a slow drip faucet with such a valuable IP Portfolio.

You do when they go bankrupt. You can call them whatever you want, but most people will not call them at all.

 

[Consultant]

Example? Thanks!

Motorola lost in Germany
https://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/0...cations-in-germany-after-18-month-injunction/

Motorola lost again in US
https://www.macrumors.com/2013/04/2...motorola-after-itc-invalidates-sensor-patent/

Motorola SEP abuse example:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...orola-mobility-loses-to-microsoft-on-patents/

There are many more

 

[Plutonotplanet]

Patent law reform urgently needed

Patent wars are costly. Yet by the time they are resolve by the courts, the offending products that are accused as being in violation of existing patents are already two years or more old and often replaced with newer (presumably less offending) versions.

 

[tongxinshe]

No google wanted the patents to use as leverage to force Apple to back off on going sue happy. Chances are Google was not going to use it any more than to protect android from being sued by Apple and Microsoft.

If that’s really what Google wanted, it would never refuse the joint-bid invitation, since that option would let Google reach the same target of “not being sued by these patents” and for sure pay much less for the bid. Google’s action very clearly indicates that it wants exclusive usage of these patents.

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The complaint against Google did not mention any notifications or negotiations. It only stated only that:

"Google was aware of the patents-in-suit at the time of the auction."

In other words, since Google had bid on 6,000 patents, Apple is saying that they should have studied each one.

Do you have any info stating otherwise?



Thanks. It makes sense that Samsung would have to be notified of any possible infringement claims, as they did not bid on the patents themselves.

First, Google was invited to the joint-bid but refused, and chose to bid on its own. That’s a very clear sign of no-negotiation.

Then, with the bidding price, they are offering near to 1 million per patent and you think they should have neglected all of the 7 million worth of patents during their study, especially that they are so clearly related to Google’s core business??? Come on, don’t be TOO biased.