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LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
How long before record labels are irrelevant?

Artists and publishing companies must be looking at that 58% cut the labels are getting and wondering why they don't just go direct to Apple and Spotify to distribute their content.

Distribution hasn't been a barrier to entry for music in nearly 20yrs. Recording and marketing costs though are a different story and someone that already has money (typically the labels) pays those upfront costs.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,456
31,726
I really could give a rats ass about hearing someone babbling inanely from LA, NY or London. If I listen to the radio I want local content, news and things that are relevant around me. I even listen to local music talent that would never show up on Apple Radio. On my iPhone I don't need a person to announce a song or boil down important global issues into trite single liners. Not even sure what a global DJ is going to say?

Just play music and shut up, I don't need to pay money to hear someone tell me what song played. Personally I think Apple's "Global Radio" is a contrivance of a bygone area.
Yes, yes and yes. And if I want to listen to radio I just pull up my TuneIn app and I have access to 40K radio stations, including all the BBC Radio stations that Beats 1 is mimicking.
 

AdonisSMU

macrumors 604
Oct 23, 2010
7,302
3,052
Distribution hasn't been a barrier to entry for music in nearly 20yrs. Recording and marketing costs though are a different story and someone that already has money (typically the labels) pays those upfront costs.
I would argue it has been a issue. Distribution costs significant amounts of money.
 

mazz0

macrumors 68040
Mar 23, 2011
3,169
3,627
Leeds, UK
I really could give a rats ass about hearing someone babbling inanely from LA, NY or London. If I listen to the radio I want local content, news and things that are relevant around me. I even listen to local music talent that would never show up on Apple Radio. On my iPhone I don't need a person to announce a song or boil down important global issues into trite single liners. Not even sure what a global DJ is going to say?

Just play music and shut up, I don't need to pay money to hear someone tell me what song played. Personally I think Apple's "Global Radio" is a contrivance of a bygone area.

I would completely agree with that, except I couldn't give a rat's arse.
 
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mazz0

macrumors 68040
Mar 23, 2011
3,169
3,627
Leeds, UK
What exactly is happening with iTunes Match and iTunes Radio now? Does the latter still exist? I'm not even clear what service iTunes Radio is/was - is/was it not the same as what Apple Music offers?
 

brueck

macrumors regular
Jun 15, 2010
135
44
58% for labels is fine for state of the art recording studios like Abbey Road, but how many studios these days are much more basic than this? The label/artist payout ratio seems disproportionate to me.
 

Jason83

macrumors regular
Sep 30, 2014
211
236
PA, USA
DOJ should be investigated music label practices. More and more streaming services come online and yet all the prices are the same. This industry is the most rigged industry ever.
Think it comes down to just how many people have their hand in the cookie jar. The prices that end up being consistent across platforms are that way because they are all but the bare minimum anyone could accept to make the whole process even worth it.
 

DynaFXD

macrumors 6502a
Jun 15, 2010
799
368
East Coast
...Just play music and shut up, I don't need to pay money to hear someone tell me what song played. Personally I think Apple's "Global Radio" is a contrivance of a bygone area.
You know, I am just the opposite. If I am out on the boat, working in the garage, or puttering around in the yard I _like_ hearing a voice on the other end of the line conversing between tracks. It reminds me that there is a world out there or living people doing things rather than one giant disk drive of tracks on infinite repeat. YMMV.
 

Thunderhawks

Suspended
Feb 17, 2009
4,057
2,118
Not even sure what a global DJ is going to say?.

Hello mate,

6:04 in Sydney. Construction delays on all major highways.
The weather is warm, so dress accordingly. SFP 60 advised.
Drink lots of liquid and stay out of the sun.

Coming up in 20 minutes the world premiere of the newest Michael Jackson song.......
oh wait...........
 
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DynaFXD

macrumors 6502a
Jun 15, 2010
799
368
East Coast
What exactly is happening with iTunes Match and iTunes Radio now? Does the latter still exist? I'm not even clear what service iTunes Radio is/was - is/was it not the same as what Apple Music offers?
Match will probably go on for $25 per year. If you cancel, all your tracks remain yours and you are back to syncing play lists to get them on your devices.
Radio was Apple's initial foray into streaming. It was free, had limited channels based on genre, (not live broadcasing), allowed limited skips, and you could flag tracks you wanted to buy. I _think_ it is going away, but don't know.
Apple music has a free and paid level. Free includes the new Apple Radio, which is like a live broadcasting radio station from London, NY, and LA. The paid tier includes streaming. However, unlike match, if you cancel you do NOT get to keep the tracks you listened to unless you buy them (like with the old Apple Radio).
 
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ArtOfWarfare

macrumors G3
Nov 26, 2007
9,577
6,089

KernelG

macrumors member
Feb 8, 2008
50
87
SF Bay Area, CA
To those commenting on record labels: This has nothing to do with record labels. This is about the split between Apple and whoever delivers the music, be it a label, or a middleman like TuneCore, or an artist flying solo with a direct deal (rare). And as it turns out, that's not 58%. In fact it's the same 30/70 split that has been working for the iTunes Music Store since 2003 -- hence the title of this article. If it's a label receiving the 70% portion, they take that and divvy it out to the artist, the writer, the publisher, probably the producer, and anyone else with points or rights. The percentages those folks get is between them and the label, except for the writers (rate set by federal law in the US).
 
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Paradoxally

macrumors 68000
Feb 4, 2011
1,972
2,825
Scathing blog post from Bob Lefsetz on Apple Music. Sure doesn't feel like anyone in the business is terribly impressed. You know it's bad when even Jim Dalrymple says Jimmy Iovine was terrible and his and Drake's portions of the keynote were a complete failure.

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2015/06/10/apple-music/

Lefsetz is a joke. He was the one who believed Taylor Swift would never make it. Look at where she is now.

That man is still bitter and living in the past because his career flopped.
 

HenryDJP

Suspended
Nov 25, 2012
5,084
843
United States
Just curious for anyone that has a clear answer on this. For all the people here who are backing up the artists and are very concerned about them being paid, are they talking about major recording artists such as Taylor Swift, Beyonce, John Legend or Eminem.....or are they referring to unknowns?
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,598
4,725
I'm not a Taylor swift fan in the slightest, I actually can't stand her music and her


But she's 100% right about the fact the free tier version of spotify devalues music. Why is that movies aren't free but music should? They both cost time and hundreds of man hours to make


In 2015 no one wants to buy individual songs and albums but Netflix has shown that people don't mind paying monthly for all the content at once
 

Loge

macrumors 68030
Jun 24, 2004
2,825
1,310
England
A current article, from just two days ago, says they're net profit is $7.7M thus far this year - which means that they're not operating at a loss:
http://uk.businessinsider.com/spoti...on-valuation-war-with-apple-music-2015-6?op=1

Am I missing something, or are you wrong?

No, that figure is the money it paid out to a "global superstar" apparently. That article states again that Spotify is operating at a loss.


http://uk.businessinsider.com/spoti...ar-with-apple-music-2015-6?op=1#ixzz3cmqqi4zL
 

Aluminum213

macrumors 68040
Mar 16, 2012
3,598
4,725
Distribution hasn't been a barrier to entry for music in nearly 20yrs. Recording and marketing costs though are a different story and someone that already has money (typically the labels) pays those upfront costs.

Recording costs have plummeted. Someone who is dedicated can produce, mix and master studio quality in their bedroom with a laptop and logic X. This isn't the 90's anymore where you need million dollar equipment and sound boards
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,689
170
How long before record labels are irrelevant?

Artists and publishing companies must be looking at that 58% cut the labels are getting and wondering why they don't just go direct to Apple and Spotify to distribute their content.

when you can record your own professional sounding record better than a studio and license any music your music might be too similar to
 

alent1234

macrumors 603
Jun 19, 2009
5,689
170
Recording costs have plummeted. Someone who is dedicated can produce, mix and master studio quality in their bedroom with a laptop and logic X. This isn't the 90's anymore where you need million dollar equipment and sound boards


why hasn't it been done yet?
 

HobeSoundDarryl

macrumors G5
I'm not a Taylor swift fan in the slightest, I actually can't stand her music and her. But she's 100% right about the fact the free tier version of spotify devalues music. Why is that movies aren't free but music should? They both cost time and hundreds of man hours to make

First, why do we want so passionately to wish away a free streaming option available to us as consumers? Apple doesn't need Music to be maximum profitable; they're making tons of profit and already have a mountain of cash. So why- as consumers- do we want so passionately to rid the world of a free* option for streaming music? If you don't want to stream for free, Apple and others are happy to take your money. Your fellow consumers though might prefer the free* option.

Second, do you get any free* TV? Think antenna. If so, shouldn't that be eliminated too per your logic?

Third, both free* TV and free* Spotify is ad-supported. Revenues are made from ads instead of users needing to open their wallets. Do you like Apple free* iTunes radio option? It's ad supported too. Shouldn't you rail against that since you are taking this issue with an Apple competitors free* option?

I get that we have to rally together and now hate Spotify because Apple decided to move into their market. Naturally, they are the enemy now. But com'on... why do we spin up such stuff against a competitor while ignoring that Apple has a free* streaming option too (Radio) while probably having access to free* TV that is free* because the ads support it... just like Spotify?

Why don't we let Apple's cut of streaming music succeed on it's own merits and leave well enough alone with how the competitor's run their businesses? If there's is garbage or whatever, all consumers will run with Apple's option and the other players will fail. On the other hand, if some can find value in those other guy's offerings, that doesn't affect us one bit if we would prefer to subscribe to Apple's offerings. They get what they want. We get what we want. Everybody wins with options!

I think a quote from Steve Jobs may fit pretty well here: "We have to let go of the notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft needs to lose." He said that almost 20 years ago now and "we" still don't seem to understand what he meant. Sub in a few other names for Microsoft and it's just as applicable HERE.
 
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Mike MA

macrumors 68020
Sep 21, 2012
2,089
1,811
Germany
If you think Apple Music will have the effect of mitigating label market power, you're going to have a bad time.

Well, maybe Apple Music won't be the one to break their dominance, but it will be among the first to start this process.

Canada and 99 other countries, yes.

This timeframe was mentioned in the context of Beats Radio by one of the DJs, not Apple Music. You can quite easily crosscheck when visiting the Apple Homepage from Germany or UK. Here it says available soon instead of the 30th of June.

But I still hope they were just unprecise on that.
 
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OldSchoolMacGuy

Suspended
Jul 10, 2008
4,197
9,050
With Beats Music and Rhapsody you have to pay for a premium package in order to access my albums. And that places a perception of value on what I've created. On Spotify, they don't have any settings, or any kind of qualifications for who gets what music. I think that people should feel that there is a value to what musicians have created, and that's that.

I like how Taylor Swift refers to lyrics and music that other people wrote for her to perform as hers. They're the ones that deserve the credit, not her.
 

pureheat101

macrumors newbie
May 14, 2015
10
8
First, why do we want so passionately to wish away a free streaming option available to us as consumers? Apple doesn't need Music to be maximum profitable; they're making tons of profit and already have a mountain of cash. So why- as consumers- do we want so passionately to rid the world of a free* option for streaming music? If you don't want to stream for free, Apple and others are happy to take your money. Your fellow consumers though might prefer the free* option.

Second, do you get any free* TV? Think antenna. If so, shouldn't that be eliminated too per your logic?

Third, both free* TV and free* Spotify is ad-supported. Revenues are made from ads instead of users needing to open their wallets. Do you like Apple free* iTunes radio option? It's ad supported too. Shouldn't you rail against that since you are taking this issue with an Apple competitors free* option?

I get that we have to rally together and now hate Spotify because Apple decided to move into their market. Naturally, they are the enemy now. But com'on... why do we spin up such stuff against a competitor while ignoring that Apple has a free* streaming option too (Radio) while probably having access to free* TV that is free* because the ads support it... just like Spotify.

The criticism I think stems mostly from this:

It's because "free TV" isn't on demand. People can't watch Episode 100 of Friends for free by typing it on a search bar in a cable box. You watch whatever is on at that time on that channel, or pay to rent/download it.

Spotify, at least the PC version, isn't a broadcast mechanism. One can search a specific song and listen to it as many times as they like, with an ad interruption every 15~30 minutes. I agree, for the consumer this may be a good thing, but for the producers of the content you can sympathize with their frustration.
 

tgwaste

macrumors 68000
Sep 18, 2013
1,786
3,557
Labels are dinosaurs, artists do not need them.. Excuse me.. real artists do not need them. Real artists put time and effort into what they do. Anyone who has half a brain could release a cd these days and tour off that. But of course to many dumb people in an industry that is dying because they want to play the blame game on mp3's and illegal downloading when really it's all about the way contracts are written.. the raping of artists by labels is something that should completely go away in time as more and more people realize they can release material on their own.


This shows a complete lack of understanding about the music industry.
Even the best musicians and bands still use Major Labels (IE: Nine Inch Nails).
Major labels have their pros as well as their cons.

The deal they make with the artist is where the problem is. NIN is going to get a great deal and have a great relationship with the label where as a new artist probably isn't going to get the best deal. If you think some new artist can just crank out a CD and be the next Mega band you're in for a big surprise.

Also remember that an artist doesn't make money off certain items until they pay the Label back for any money upfront they gave them. Just a like a bank. Just like it should be. You don't get loans for free.
 
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