Apple Must Repay $14.5 Billion in Back Taxes, EU Commission Rules

[emm386]

This tax deal is not only subsidized by Apple's customer base (including a not insignificant amount of people who will actually defend Apple for striking this special deal) and their supply chain, but by every single person living in EU member states.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

Which article? How many taxes ? All I see are stories about how they are the #1 avoider of taxes: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/07/apple-tax-evasion_n_8258170.html

Date Not Listed: Forbes
Date 2013: USA Today
Date: 2016 Forbes (Apple took the number one spot).

 

[Rogifan]

Per Tim Cook's letter this is Apple's argument:

At its root, the Commission’s case is not about how much Apple pays in taxes. It is about which government collects the money.

Taxes for multinational companies are complex, yet a fundamental principle is recognized around the world: A company’s profits should be taxed in the country where the value is created. Apple, Ireland and the United States all agree on this principle.

Essentially he's saying there's only a few countries where design, engineering and product ideation and creation happen and that's where the profits should be taxed.

 

[Ries]

Does anyone here pay more tax than they're legally required to pay? As far as I know no one is suggesting Apple did anything illegal. I'm sorry but it's not Apple's responsibility to fund Europe's welfare state.

Maybe they didn't do anything illegal, but that doesn't mean they don't owe any back taxes. They interpretted a rule in one way, they were wrong so they have to pay up. This happens on a daily basis, someone claims something as "business expense" and the IRS goes "Yeah dude, that is not going to fly! Your gift for your side lover is not deductable."

 

[alexgowers]

According to Forbes and USA Today, Apple is the third largest taxpayer in the US.

But in Europe they aren't even on the charts paying 0.005% is illegal and the nasty underbelly of apple has been exposed. Make em pay and pay for the appeal through the nose too.

 

[fischersd]

Well no... No country in EU can negotiate a lower tax for 1 company and not for others, making the deal not aboveboard.
And EU can and should punish companies and member states doing this. Ireland, as a part of EU were not in the right to do this.
Being a member of the EU comes with a big pile of advantages, but also some rules.
In the long run Ireland would cut apple off instead of letting go of EU.

That's really the question. Does Ireland have the sovereign right to decide its own tax laws (regardless of whether that creates unfair trade imbalance within EU) or not. Hence their appeal. (and we all know at $14.5B US that Apple would damn well appeal this to tie it up in courts as long as possible).
If Ireland does have the right, and they put legislation in place, trading Apple's tax burden for job creation in Ireland, then Apple actually didn't break the law.

And, those comparing your personal income tax rates vs what Apple pays...guys - corporate tax rates have been lower than personal rates for quite some time. You want to do a comparison? Split off a new thread to talk about the 1%'ers that often pay no taxes due to the loopholes that exist.

Do I think all corporations should pay their fair share and not have tax loopholes? You bet your A55! But if the government consciously makes it legal to trade one burden for another that's less, you can't fault the corporation for taking it.

 

[Rogifan]

Maybe they didn't do anything illegal, but that doesn't mean they don't owe any back taxes. They interpretted a rule in one way, they were wrong so they have to pay up. This happens on a daily basis, someone claims something as "business expense" and the IRS goes "Yeah dude, that is not going to fly! Your gift for your side lover is not deductable."

Since they're appealing we don't know who is right or wrong yet. Amazing how many automatically assume Apple did something wrong because some commission in Brussels says so.

 

[Abazigal]

Wrong wrong question.....

To answer the question of fair .... My tax rate next to apple's tax rate

if you think 0.005% is fair.....invest in a dictionary

Like I said, fair or not fair, it is not for us to decide.

I can feel that a certain criminal's sentence is too light, but that would be my own personal opinion. Ultimately, the courts have passed their judgement, and it needs to be respected, precisely because different people have differing views of what "fair" is.

As a species man kind is incredibly selfish and does nothing for anyone else but themselves and it would be good for it all to fall apart!

It is precisely this selfishness and greed that has spurred mankind to improve.

Excellent news. No company big or small should be able to dodge taxes. It's sobering to read that the penalty Apple may have to pay will fund the Irish health service for an entire year. Just think of that for a second or two. Think of all the lives that money will save. Tax evasion isn't a victimless crime.

Which again, is beyond the scope of this discussion. We are not debating about whether Apple should pay that money or not, but whether Apple is legally required to.

 

[Nozuka]

Well Apple has been looking for a way to use the money without incurring U.S. taxes.
Guess they found out what do to with it now.

Apple has like 90% of it's cash overseas.

 

[Ries]

Per Tim Cook's letter this is Apple's argument:



Essentially he's saying there's only a few countries where design, engineering and product ideation and creation happen and that's where the profits should be taxed.

Which currently is a cloud in "no mans sky", now you know what is at the center of the universe.

 

[leroypants]

Everyone is saying this is illegal but it is not. It could be speculated as being state funded aid but you cant prove that. Apple invested in Ireland and the country negotiated a tax rate with the company. It is Ireland that received the lower tax income before Europe ever gets their hands on it, so it is up to them to have said no to Tim and that he must pay them more. But they decided securing jobs and investment with one of the worlds biggest companies for their people was more important that lining the wallets of a Eurocrat.

And have no mistake, this is not a strike for social justice, this is not our law makers sticking it to tax dodgers or giant faceless corporations.... this is all about getting as much money as they can for themselves.

That money should come in and I would say at least 70% should go to the Irish to invest and do with as they deem fit. and Just to spite the EU I would put it all in to developing new research and construction plants for Apple. That way all the EU has done is made Apple increase its presence in Europe and provide more jobs to the Irish people.

However I do hope Apple gets the repeal on one condition. I hope they have the sense to re-evaluate their public standing now with tax laws and decide they will pay a fairer rate. But they need to squash this for the dangerous precedent it sets for EU meddling in the economic affairs of individual nations.

Apple needs to pay more but this is now about more than Apple it is about how the law in Europe works and the standing of countries within the EU to manage their own finances.

Brexit...not looking such a bad thing at the moment....Apple come here we will be cheap =)

Cool story Bro except for the first sentence which is an outright lie and the rest of your post is an Apple Kool-Aid cult like defense of the indefensible.

 

[Kaibelf]

Hahahaha. Absolute hypocrites. Big company with a supposed social conscience contributing nothing to society.

When was the last time you said "hey, I'm going to pay more than I legally must in taxes because I'm a good citizen"? And Apple is the hypocrite?

 

[DCIFRTHS]

I think you're looking at 2013 / 2014 when Exxon and Chevron were above Apple. Since then their revenues have halved while Apple's has increased - Apple now pays much more tax.

Apple is by far the largest tax payer in the US, Tim Cook said so under oath at the Senate sub-committee last year.

http://amigobulls.com/stocks/XOM/income-statement/quarterly
http://amigobulls.com/stocks/AAPL/income-stament/quarterly
extend the table to 2014 and look at the lines revenue and provisions for income taxes

Yes. I was. I updated my post above.

 

[thermodynamic]

They'll appeal it down but.. Good! Stop dogging taxes. Goes for all companies.

But then they will have to pay their fair share for the services America provides them as needed (roads, military, police, government sponsored technology and other initiatives).

Hahahaha. Absolute hypocrites. Big company with a supposed social conscience contributing nothing to society.

Leeching - in the form of getting special tax cuts, taking corporate welfare, charging more for less, paying employees a pittance, a lot of issues have been made known by the "liberal" media over the years...

But Apple contributes to society. Remember Angry Birds? Playing all those computer games Apple put out are why Americans are so dumb and can't compete for Apple's jobs. Hell, everyone could have Master's degrees and actually have the skills and Apple would still find a way to leech.

No wonder some Chinese citizens are smashing iPhones in the name of nationalism, though they're wrong in thinking Apple is American, it's multinational like how the rest of us been told.

 

[Kaibelf]

How different is tax dodging and paying 0.005% from terrorism?

Well, last I heard a low tax rate didn't kill dozens of people watching fireworks in France. Drama queen.

 

[Nuvi]

So is this $14.5bn that ultimately should've been paid to the US treasury but Apple channeled through Ireland in order to pay less tax?

No, most likely just the profit from European operations.

 

[VulchR]

What's crazy about this is, if you leave Apple out of it - Ireland broke the law (according to the court ruling) and the outcome is... a $14.5 billion cheque.

I assume this won't just go to the Irish government, but will be distributed within the EU? Though that feels like another can of worms.

No doubt Ireland will get less EU subsidy as a result of this....

 

[derek4484]

This is just one more reason why the EU sucks. You have an international group of socialists that need a never-ending supply of money to support all those cradle to grave entitlements and handouts.

Ireland, supposedly a sovereign nation, decided to grant tax benefits to Apple to get them to relocate to Ireland (which already has a nice, low corp. income tax at 16%, that's what angers the EU/EC). Now the EU, made of of money grubbing buffoons from 26 other nations comes in and tells them that what they did is illegal. I dont blame the UK for wanting out of the EU/EC. It'd be like if we formed a NorthAmerican Union and we had Canadians and Mexican politicians dictating and overruling our own laws. The citizenry loses their sovereignity when you join one of these international unions. They cant even elect a government of their own people to govern themselves.

 

[cdmoore74]

Hurt jobs for Europe? Well hell, bring those jobs back to America.

 

[Carlanga]

Apple Employees in Ireland should update on their résumés.
Now's the time for the U.S. To offer an 8 year tax break and forgiveness in order to bring their money and jobs back to the states. A certain candidate should jump on it.

What jobs would Apple bring from their Ireland hq? 3 people?

 

[DCIFRTHS]

Deleted.

 

[anthorumor]

Stop it EU; you're delaying my 2016 MacBook Pros even further.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

And which party do you think would dare to close the offshore profit loophole ? None that I can see.

Good point, but it looks like the EU is doing what we here don't have the balls to do.

 

[CarpalMac]

When was the last time you said "hey, I'm going to pay more than I legally must in taxes because I'm a good citizen"? And Apple is the hypocrite?

Equally - When was the last time NutsNGum went out of their way to do things like setting up a non-existent head office or did locally based deals with governments to massively reduce their tax burden?

 

[tentales]

That's really the question. Does Ireland have the sovereign right to decide its own tax laws

They do and they have. The rate is 12.5% . The EU is going after the backdoor deals of treating some companies better than others. It's not a question of tax law sovereignty, but rather adherence to the given tax law.