Apple Pay Roundup: Everything We Know, Coming in October

[vpndev]

If they take NFC, it takes Apple Pay. Simple.

No. NFC is REQUIRED but is not SUFFICIENT.

They need to have back-office stuff. And agreements, of course.

Apple Pay is not just another flavorr of NFC tap-to-pay. It's related but different.

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Again, I'm not aware of a way to use NFC for an online purchase... please explain?

You're right. NFC doesn't apply in the on-line scenario. So I wonder also about the restriction of Apple Pay to iPhone 6 - even for for on-line purchases.

I understand that iPhone 5 and 5s don't have the "secure element" but then how does Apple make Apple Pay work with 5/5s and Apple Watch ?? I don't get it.

There are more details to be revealed and until then we're all just frustrated.

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On the mcx website it seems as though a lot of merchants are participating. Is it all about cutting visa and MasterCard out of the mix?

You got it - this is the essence - kill the "fee" that Visa/Mastercard/Amex charge.

But these folks want me to provide access to my bank for their charges - NO WAY !! It's not clear to be what banking rules would even cover such a scenario. It's certainly not the credit card protection [generally good]. And maybe not even the debit card rules [not so good].

Fortunately, I have little reason to shop at with WalMart or BestBuy.

 

[doelcm82]

Oh, how I miss the days of cash driven business!

There's still nothing like the green paper!

There are still a few cash-driven business around, I think. Mainly exotic dancing and drug dealing.

For me, the question of whether a secular country (the U.S.) should have a religious proclamation ("In God We Trust") on its currency is becoming more and more moot. I handle bank notes and coins less and less every year.

We'll see contactless payments at vending machines in more places, and probably the big casino companies are working on a variation so you can use your smart phone for betting at the slot machine and the roulette wheel. (I think there are laws in place designed to keep you from betting with your Visa credit line).

 

[Fenez]

13831383

No. NFC is REQUIRED but is not SUFFICIENT.

They need to have back-office stuff. And agreements, of course.

Apple Pay is not just another flavorr of NFC tap-to-pay. It's related but different.

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You're right. NFC doesn't apply in the on-line scenario. So I wonder also about the restriction of Apple Pay to iPhone 6 - even for for on-line purchases.

I understand that iPhone 5 and 5s don't have the "secure element" but then how does Apple make Apple Pay work with 5/5s and Apple Watch ?? I don't get it.

There are more details to be revealed and until then we're all just frustrated.

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You got it - this is the essence - kill the "fee" that Visa/Mastercard/Amex charge.

But these folks want me to provide access to my bank for their charges - NO WAY !! It's not clear to be what banking rules would even cover such a scenario. It's certainly not the credit card protection [generally good]. And maybe not even the debit card rules [not so good].

Fortunately, I have little reason to shop at with WalMart or BestBuy.

Apple is indeed just nfc...you have it wrong...anywhere nfc is taken apple pay will work... Its no different than anything else... And before you get into tokenized babble... They are all tokenized, android, windows etc..
Some are stored locally some are not... When u use a phone the card number is not seen by the merchant no matter what device you use. The reason apple reported 220.000 merchants are on board is because those merchants already take nfc. I blame apple for not explaining it better. There is no new tech here with the exception of touch id which is an extra element of security and pretty damn cool.

 

[Harmonious Zen]

I'm actually pretty psyched to try this. It would be awesome if most of our daily transactions could be conducted on our phones. I know in other parts of the world, there's a much larger adoption of these technologies.

 

[michikade]

I wouldn't mind trying it assuming my bank will work with it. Time will tell.

 

[occollegeboi420]

Hack it!!!

Still waiting for someone to hack apple pay.

 

[JGIGS]

It's a cool techy feature but sooooo overhyped. Until it works everywhere and digital id you need a wallet it still. It's also just as easy if not easier to use an NFC enabled credit or debit card.

Like said cool, yes, but overhyped. Not to mention its kind of similar to this thing called google wallet that believe it or not has been around awhile.

 

[thasan]

LOL! It would probably be more cost-effective to upgrade to an iPhone 6 instead. Why spend money on an accessory to help you spend money?

because.... thats NOT the only use of it?

 

[Lictor]

Security. Simple as that. The information is presented in the roundup, if it's not obvious why it's more secure there's no point in me trying to explain it.

Yes, I see the extra security, but not why it matters... My credit card is insured. If it gets stolen, the money spent on it because the problem of the bank, not mine.
I have to read Apple's information in more detail, I don't know if Apple Pay will work without data.

Also, the cut Apple takes on the paiement means it will have the same problem as credit/debit card in Germany or Switzerland: shops won't like to use it. For instance, I have a friend who bought a sport card in Switzerland, the dealer drove him all the way to the bank to make the transaction in cash rather than accept any other kind of paiement...

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credit card means "you buy stuff u cant actually afford" to us and also the german word for debt is the same word as guilt so we hesitate more to use one i guess.

Not in parts of Europe. Credit card means you buy stuff but the money stays on your saving account and earns interest until the end of the month. Credit card just reports the actual payment to the end of the month with no interests.
In France, I know very few people who actually use real credit cards as Americans do (with a permanent credit and high interest rate behind it).

Anyway, even a debit card will let you buy stuff you can't afford. Unless you have something like Electron that checks with the bank anytime you do a transaction, a debit card will let you run your bank account into the red just as a check would...

 

[guineapig]

As cool as this sounds, I don't understand how this is going to gain traction if it's limited to people with the latest iPhone or Apple Watch.

Wait 3 years and everyone will have it.

 

[melevittfl]

Yes, I see the extra security, but not why it matters... My credit card is insured. If it gets stolen, the money spent on it because the problem of the bank, not mine.
I have to read Apple's information in more detail, I don't know if Apple Pay will work without data.

1) You will be able to pay higher amounts because, unlike a normal contactless card, the TouchID fingerprint sensor authenticates that you are the cardholder.

2) You're right that your bank is liable, but they spend money on fraud prevention and pass that along to the merchant and the merchant passes that along to you. The more fraud loopholes they close then, in theory, the lower amounts everyone will pay

3) Because you have a per-device token, not a card number, if a retailer is hacked, your bank doesn't have to spend the money to print thousands of new cards.

 

[Gudi]

While Apple Pay will initially be restricted to iPhone 6 and 6 Plus owners, iPhone 5, 5c, and 5s users will also be able to take advantage of the service if they purchase an Apple Watch after it is released.

Finally a use case for Apple Watch.

 

[Crissov]

C2c?

So, can two random iOS users transfer money from one device to the other using Apple Pay? Does it also work when one of the NFC device does not run iOS?

Unless both questions can be answered Yes and Pay is available internationally, I don’t see the point.

 

[Lictor]

You will be able to pay higher amounts because, unlike a normal contactless card, the TouchID fingerprint sensor authenticates that you are the cardholder.

But, do I really want to buy expensive stuff with Apple Pay? I have a VISA Premier and a Gold Mastercard. Why would I pay for instance an expensive travel with Apple while I get insurance/assistance if I pay with one of my cards?
Besides, I get end of the month debit with my cards, will I have it with Apple too?

In real world use, I tend to think that getting your card out and entering your pin in not too much efforts when you're buying expensive stuff - it's still a lot faster than writing a check or paying in cash and it does not happen daily.
I think where NFC payment is interesting is to replace cash for small transactions - like buying your bread at the bakery or a steak at the butcher.
The problem I see is that we had something similar in France a few years ago (Moneo) and it was a huge failure. First, people actually like to have cash in their pockets, it makes them feel secure or something. Another problem was that, like Apple, they took a percentage of the transactions. So, almost no small shop had the terminals, they just didn't want to lose money! I think another problem is that electronic money leaves a trail - a lot of business that deal mostly in cash tend to "forget" to declare part of their income, it's extremely hard to prove with cash, not so with electronic money...

Because you have a per-device token, not a card number, if a retailer is hacked, your bank doesn't have to spend the money to print thousands of new cards.

That would apply only to some online shops. I don't think physical shops keep credit cards numbers.

 

[CosmoPilot]

But, do I really want to buy expensive stuff with Apple Pay? I have a VISA Premier and a Gold Mastercard. Why would I pay for instance an expensive travel with Apple while I get insurance/assistance if I pay with one of my cards?
Besides, I get end of the month debit with my cards, will I have it with Apple too?

Apple Pay is not a separate credit card. It is a transaction method. You can still use your Premium or Gold card. You simply store those cards electronically in your iPhone (much more securely than if stored in a physical wallet). At payment time, you choose the card you want to use and the make the transaction. Simple!

Tim Cook was clear when he said people enjoy using their plastic because of the benefits they receive (bonus points, frequent flyer miles, etc.). These won't go away as long as the credit card companies compete for your business. Apple Pay doesn't take these benefits away at all. Again, Apple Pay is a transaction method of using your current credit card with a merchant. Another way to think about it is Apple provides the secure pipelines for your card to be used.

The idea behind Apple Pay is simply to protect you against hacks when making a transaction. As Eddy Cue said, we don't know what you bought, how much you paid, or where you bought it. That is between you, the merchant, and your bank.

 

[captain cadet]

Can England haz it plz

You mean The United Kingdom! Why should you get it while Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland not get it? This is why every American thinks the UK as a whole is just England!

 

[FlatBot]

. . .I told her about Apple Pay, which she had no clue about, and how it would start next month. She asked if I worked for Walgreens . . .

"No. I am from the Internet."

 

[aamoren3]

Tried you use my Walgreens passbook card and the cashier said the scanning system was down. But I looked down and saw a brand new nfc device scanner and remember that Walgreens was listed by Apple as an initial client. I told her about Apple Pay, which she had no clue about, and how it would start next month. She asked if I worked for Walgreens and I told her "I'm just in the know...about such things."

I just want to know how your congestion is coming along...

 

[Neokiller309]

Tried you use my Walgreens passbook card and the cashier said the scanning system was down. But I looked down and saw a brand new nfc device scanner and remember that Walgreens was listed by Apple as an initial client. I told her about Apple Pay, which she had no clue about, and how it would start next month. She asked if I worked for Walgreens and I told her "I'm just in the know...about such things."

I have a store around me with brand spanking new nfc terminals just like that one. Two people have told me the wireless part doesn't work. Another cashier told me that their manager instructed them to tell people that because he "doesn't trust it"

 

[kdarling]

Right I saw that, I'm just wondering if the option to use credit cards at those merchants will still be available or will it just be that you can't use NFC if you do want to use visa or mc.

In the US, it will be mandatory for a while to continue to support magnetic stripe cards.

Still waiting for someone to hack apple pay.

If the CC companies haven't fixed some known EMV attack vectors, then it won't take long.

Interestingly, this will almost certainly be done using an Android phone, since there are already programs out there for them to do this.

The idea behind Apple Pay is simply to protect you against hacks when making a transaction.

In the US, we're already protected against CC fraud. Apple Pay simply gives less fraud risk to the CC issuer.

EMV is NOT about providing 100% security. It's about mitigating fraud risk, not eliminating it nor causing undue purchase delays. Keeping it convenient to easily purchase items, still outweighs and pays more than having total security, at this point in time.

As for hacks, it means less responsibility protection for us... because if someone does successfully complete a preplay or relay (or yes, fake finger) attack, the TouchId user is going to have a really hard time proving they didn't do the transaction. As happened in some countries with Chip & PIN, we might need new legislation for protection in these rare cases.

So, can two random iOS users transfer money from one device to the other using Apple Pay? Does it also work when one of the NFC device does not run iOS?

Apple Pay is simply paying with one of your current cards. Being able to transfer money would require either that your recipient has a merchant account, or that someone writes an iOS app to use your card to get funds to directly pay the other person somehow. E.g. Paypal.

1) You will be able to pay higher amounts because, unlike a normal contactless card, the TouchID fingerprint sensor authenticates that you are the cardholder.

You mean higher amounts without entering a PIN again. Although it's not clear to me that Apple Pay gets rid of this requirement for higher purchases.

It might, but it would also make sense to force the user to acknowledge a large amount is being charged. For example, Google Wallet has no limits beyond what your backing cards have, but merchant terminals can be set to challenge over a certain limit anyway.

 

[gpspad]

They really needed a better way to get the older iphone 5 and 5s in this w/o the watch. I have no plans on wearing a watch again, and unless these apple pay devices were every where, the new iPhone 6 doesn't have anything in it I need to buy it right now.

my iphone 5s is fine, this is just like car play, imessage, and facetime. Another apple only thing that probably won't gain tractionbecause it requires and expensive apple product.

Apple could have set the stage if they allowed non apple devices in on the action. I love my ever growing apple eco system, but am the first to admit that many of my friends aren't in ti because they don't want to spend extra for apple products.

 

[dontwalkhand]

They really needed a better way to get the older iphone 5 and 5s in this w/o the watch. I have no plans on wearing a watch again, and unless these apple pay devices were every where, the new iPhone 6 doesn't have anything in it I need to buy it right now.

my iphone 5s is fine, this is just like car play, imessage, and facetime. Another apple only thing that probably won't gain tractionbecause it requires and expensive apple product.

Apple could have set the stage if they allowed non apple devices in on the action. I love my ever growing apple eco system, but am the first to admit that many of my friends aren't in ti because they don't want to spend extra for apple products.

Apple Pay is non Apple. The store does not need Apple terminals to accept Apple Pay, in most cases, the terminal they already have will work just fine.

 

[stewy]

Hopefully all the kinks will be worked out and it'll be available in Canada by the time the 6S is released.

It's too bad they didn't just test it here (in Canada) first since a ton of stores already have the ability to use NFC.

 

[StyxMaker]

You mean The United Kingdom! Why should you get it while Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland not get it? This is why every American thinks the UK as a whole is just England!

Not every American, some of us know that England is only part of the UK, not the whole thing. A few more might be aware of this thanks to Scotland's failed attempt to escape.

 

[manu chao]

If you're re-upping your contract, the phone is just $199.

You mean if you stay with a cellular provider/plan that forces you to make a monthly $20 downpayment for a new phone.