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seedster2

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2007
686
0
NYC
I don't know that iPads (or any other tablet for that matter) should be included in PC sales. Why not include iPods then? I can do exactly the same things on both ..

Netbooks in the PC sale are pushing it, but at least you can operate those on their own without the need to have a second machine to set them up and update them.

T.

This is a Market Analysis. Basically gives them carte blanche to make statistics fit their conclusion. the wilder the numbers, the larger the audience.

I'm a self-proclaimed Apple fanboy, and I don't think iPads should be included with PC sales. They're an extension to a computer - very few people use them as their only machine. And without any sort of file structure that one can navigate freely, it serves a completely different market than PCs do.

Don't get me wrong , the sales numbers are very impressive. But saying they're 3rd in global PC sales is a bit of a stretch. Sure, you could say everyone else can include tablets in their sales as well, but when Apple are the only ones who are mainstream, it's an easy statistic to blow out of proportion.

Indeed. iPad is a great device for light email and surfing. But I couldn't call it a "pc" when I need to sync it to do some of the most basic things like activate it, back it up, or even update the firmware.

Macbook Air 11" is a netbook, and I wouldn't put it in a same category than iPad. Macbook Air is full computer in a small size, it does most of the same things than larger Macbooks, and it can be your only computer. Surely you can do many of those same tasks on iPad, but in my opinion iPad is an accessory.

I think MBA stats would be much more relevant. But of course, it wouldnt have been as sensational. The new MBA is a real winner unlike the first iteration

Exactly By including the iPad as a PC you 240% an impressive eye catching number. The media all jump on the story and their report get publicity.

Precisely, author gets a lot of views.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,798
10,935
but motive does prove enough to question it. Motive here shows pretty clear that they screwed with the statistics to increase sales. You can sure as hell bet if they though it would not damage them to much they would of thrown in iPod and iPhone into that mix to jack it up even more. They figure the iPad is enough to get away with it.

They didn't "screw" with any statistics. They clearly described the statistics that they presented. Just because you were hoping for or expecting a different methodology doesn't mean that the statistics are screwy.

There's more substance in that argument than you may think. Because the word "computer" is ambiguous enough to include anything that does any "computing" (my iPhone? my TI-nSpire?), one must draw a line somewhere.

Here's an interesting excerpt from the Wikipedia article on "Computers":


Returning to the iPad, it certainly becomes a grey area. Yet I don't believe the iPad has crossed into the imaginary (and very abstract) image I have engrained in my mind of exactly what a modern "computer" should (not necessarily needed for ME to use) be capable of, of which programming for itself is a part of it.

The iPad appears to meet the definition that you presented. Where is the grey area? It basically says that it has to be programmable to simulate arbitrary thing. An iPad certainly is. There is no requirement to compile the code on the device itself.

Lastly, in terms of markets, I still am not convinced iPads are cannibalizing sales of any Macbooks, save the Air. At least, I can't imagine anyone walking into an Apple store who say, is off to university, and walking out not with a Macbook but with an iPad.

The only thing the iPad has been clearly shown to displace is sales of netbooks.

Oh and regarding the "it's a computer if it competes with computers" argument, that line there between computers/non-computers is so blurry it virtually is non-existant either. Since when were humans, and specifically our buying habits, so rigid and easily explained?

That wasn't the argument. The argument was "It's in the PC market if it competes directly with PCs."

Consider this hypothetical:
1) I have a Mac Pro, but need something to use out on the go.
2) All I need is to quickly check a website, check my email, and play the occasional game, and that it be as light and portable as possible.

Myself, I'd buy the 13' Macbook Pro. Others may understandably buy the MB Air. Still others might go for the iPad. Others may just trash their old phone while they're at it and buy an iPhone.

To judge that one thing competes with another in a particular "market" involves arbitrarily defining a "market" in the first place, not something that is in the least bit objective. The overlap between the feature list of the iPod Touch or iPhone and iPad is lengthy,

The definition of the market is arbitrary. But once it's defined, any products that compete significantly in that market should be taken into account in an analysis of the market.

Yes, the feature list of an iPod touch overlaps with an iPad. The difference is that an iPad has been shown to displace sales of netbooks. An iPod touch has not been shown to have any significant impact on PC sales. Since a netbook is clearly a PC by any definition used by market analysts, the iPad should be taken into account when analyzing the market.

yet a person who buys the former is for whatever reason not shopping in the "PC" market, while the latter is?

The "PC market" is just a grouping of products that analyst think make sense to look at together. One analyst can group by just desktops and laptops and call it the PC market. Another analyst can expand it to include netbooks. A third analyst can include tablet PCs. A fourth could add in iPad-like devices. They all make sense to look at together. All of them can be called the PC market. It just depends on how comprehensive a view of the market their clients are looking for.

Precisely, author gets a lot of views.

Do you really think a market analysis is funded by page views? They get paid by companies to provide insight into different markets. Press releases like this are just free advertising, like any other press release. If their information is wrong and their conclusions are wrong, advertising doesn't really help.
 
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krzyglue

macrumors regular
May 27, 2009
229
0
The iPad appears to meet the definition that you presented. Where is the grey area? It basically says that it has to be programmable to simulate arbitrary thing. An iPad certainly is. There is no requirement to compile the code on the device itself.

Interesting thought, and perhaps you are right in that respect. Yet I should have elaborated: I didn't bring that article up as the precise definition of what a computer is, but rather to raise further questions on the complexity of the question. Now that game consoles are "programmable", that Wikipedia article would include them as computers, no? As a way out, if you will, I (who am by no means an authority on this topic) draw the distinction between programming for itself.



The only thing the iPad has been clearly shown to displace is sales of netbooks.

I'm assuming you mean the apparent correlation between strong iPad sales and a decline in Acer's (and other manufacturers, to a lesser extent)? There may be more to it than simple displacement. My belief is that netbook sales would've plummeted regardless of the success of the iPad.

That wasn't the argument. The argument was "It's in the PC market if it competes directly with PCs."

You missed my argument. I meant that saying things like "It's in the PC market if it competes directly with PCs." don't prove anything, as with the complex buying habits of people, anything beyond a strict apples-to-apples comparison is wide open for interpretation. You and this analyst may feel that the iPad competes with PCs, but I'm not sure it's as direct as you think.

The definition of the market is arbitrary. But once it's defined, any products that compete significantly in that market should be taken into account in an analysis of the market.

Yes that's the point though, of course my analysis of a certain market will be "justified" and "accurate", because I defined that market; I can include any product I want to that competes in my chosen market. Doesn't mean that it is truly representative of what is happening in the overall picture of consumer spending and product success.

Yes, the feature list of an iPod touch overlaps with an iPad. The difference is that an iPad has been shown to displace sales of netbooks. An iPod touch has not been shown to have any significant impact on PC sales. Since a netbook is clearly a PC by any definition used by market analysts, the iPad should be taken into account when analyzing the market.

I don't follow you, you're saying that because iPads displace netbook sales, and because netbooks are PCs, then iPads compete with PCs? So I quite confidently assert that iPod Touches most definitely steal a portion of potential iPad sales, then it too is a PC because it competes with the iPad (to you, a PC).


The "PC market" is just a grouping of products that analyst think make sense to look at together. One analyst can group by just desktops and laptops and call it the PC market. Another analyst can expand it to include netbooks. A third analyst can include tablet PCs. A fourth could add in iPad-like devices. They all make sense to look at together. All of them can be called the PC market. It just depends on how comprehensive a view of the market their clients are looking for.

Yes and it makes plenty of sense to include, oh let's call them "ultra-portable mobile computers" i.e. iPods. As I illustrated in my above point and the hypothetical buyer facing the choice of Macbook vs. iPad vs. iPod, it's not entirely unreasonable to say they do compete with iPads. Apple sails to the top!
 

MrWillie

macrumors 65816
Apr 29, 2010
1,469
485
Starlite Starbrite Trailer Court
Until we are free to install an ARM version of Linux or Windows (or whatever) on an iPad, it's not a general purpose computer it's a closed (but very handy) appliance.

You can install iOS. Why does it have to be Windows or Linux?

I disagree. While there is certainly some grey area, Netbooks run software like any Windows PC does, albeit less powerful.

It all boils down to the OS in my opinion. PC sales should only include computers that run a full OS like Windows, OS X, or Linux.

And iOS is not a FULL OS because????

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)

Market analysis blabla. Do they count all the tablets as PCs or just the ipad? Like, does the galaxy tab count too? Or dell streak? They sure should. And the argument "you can buy an iPad instead of a netbook" doesn't really make sense. I would buy an ipod touch instead of an ipad, and an ipad over a netbook, ergo, the ipod touch is a pc!

Do their minuscule sales numbers matter anyway?

You've not been paying attention, have you? When you buy an iPad at the Apple Store, they will offer to activate it for you, so you don't even need to connect it to another machine at home unless you want to. True, you'll miss out on iOS updates, but any other software will update over the air with no difficulty at all.

If you bring it to the Apple Store, they will update it for you. Will also do back ups to your flash drive.

Yes. If you want to continue to use the iPad for all it's purposes you need to use another computer.

Sure don't. While there is a desktop in the house and I carry a laptop, I don't hook up to it. File Browser and Drop Box suits me needs nicely. You ought to try an iPad for awhile.

If so, then so is the iPhone and other modern smartphones given that the CPU, GPU and RAM are pretty much the same for these devices. The larger display does not a computer make.

Nope, they are PDAs, as is the iPod Touch. As were the Dell Axims, X5, X3, and others.
Because the ability to use device for writing/running programs is the most significant difference between toaster and personal computers. Nowadays some toasters have more powerful CPUs than iPad, does it make them PCs?

Which toasters would that be ?

Actually, I've had some laptops (PC and Mac) that felt like they could easily toast some bread! :D

Me too. Especially on Flash heavy websites.

By what I mean is, I shouldn't have to have to connect it to a computer to update, or to a computer to activate.

It shouldn't have to rely on another device to do these basic things. Remember Steve himself said the iPad is a device to come between the iPhone and the laptop.

When it can be completely free of being tied to iTunes for almost everything, I would be more willing to call it a computer.

It has evolved since it was released. So the Steve quote no longer applies. I don't think he even realized how it would take off. iTunes ? I only use it for updates, I would call that free from ALMOST everything.

The iPad as a computer is absolutely laughable. 1024x768 screen? I had a display with that resolution TWENTY years ago. Lack of USB ports? I can't remember the last time I used a PC without one. 16GB of "storage?" Again, I had a ton more storage space a decade ago. What the hell are you supposed to put on 16GB? Some songs, a couple of pictures and a movie? 256megs of RAM? My POS eMac from 2003 came standard with that amount. Seriously, what kind of real work (or state of the art fun) are you supposed to have on a 'computer' with crap specs like that?

The iPad is nothing more than a novelty item. Yes, it's cool to say you browsed the web while taking a dump, or watched a movie on the bus, but in the context of being a traditional computer, according to this 'analyst', the iPad is a joke.

Na, I changed my mine on this one. I figure you want one, but mommy won't get you one, or your spouse won't let you get it. Just look at your username. Says it all.


iPad is in it's own right a personal computer. At least mine is. Xbox, PS3, Wii ? They are marketed and sold as a gaming console.
 
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firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,113
1,353
Silicon Valley
Until we are free to install an ARM version of Linux or Windows (or whatever) on an iPad, it's not a general purpose computer...

Someone has already beat you to it last year and installed Android (running a linux kernel) on a iPhone. Posted instructions on the internet. Not even a new thing with handheld tablet computers, since linux ran on PalmPilots over 10 years ago. Now you'll have make up some other reason not to be satisfied.

Because the ability to use device for writing/running programs is the most significant difference between toaster and personal computers. Nowadays some toasters have more powerful CPUs than iPad, does it make them PCs?

You can write and run programs on an iPad (and iPhone). There are at least 5 Basic interpreters in the App store, plus several Javascript editor apps that can run Javascript programs on an iPad (or iPhone).

Any top-notch developer could port and run a C compiler under the iOS operating system on an iPad. They can't submit that compiler to the App store, but that's an issue with the App store rules, not with the iPad's native capabilities to compile or interpret and run full programs like any other computer.
 
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gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Big one is I look at the place that release this info. They block out anything useful or any break down leaving it with just Apple huge impossible gain (240%) jump telling me that this is more of a marketing stunt at the expense of their credibility. They know the masses out there will eat it up because it has Apple in it. The media will pay more for the data just so they can break it down but at the same time their credibility pays a price.

In 2009, Apple sold about 12 million Macs and 0 million iPads. In 2010, Apple sold about 14 million Macs and about 15 million iPads. These are facts (except that I didn't check the precise numbers, so I might be off by a million or two). So it is a fact that Apple sold a lot more stuff in 2010 than in 2009. That is undeniable. (There is probably the usual problem that people confuse "2010 sales = 240% of 2009 sales" and "sales growth from 2009 to 2010 is 140%").

The argument we have here is only about in which statistics these iPads should appear. Yes, you can argue about it. But that argument doesn't make a difference about how much stuff Apple sells, how much money they make, and whether they are taking away other company's laptop and netbook sales.

If I was Acer, I would worry how iPad sales affect my computer business. I wouldn't worry how iPod Touch and iPhone sales affect my computer business. And if I was Microsoft, I would worry how iPad and soon Android tablets will affect Windows sales.
 

Burger Thing

macrumors 65816
Jan 7, 2009
1,066
1,014
Around the World
In 2009, Apple sold about 12 million Macs and 0 million iPads. In 2010, Apple sold about 14 million Macs and about 15 million iPads. These are facts (except that I didn't check the precise numbers, so I might be off by a million or two). So it is a fact that Apple sold a lot more stuff in 2010 than in 2009. That is undeniable. (There is probably the usual problem that people confuse "2010 sales = 240% of 2009 sales" and "sales growth from 2009 to 2010 is 140%").

The argument we have here is only about in which statistics these iPads should appear. Yes, you can argue about it. But that argument doesn't make a difference about how much stuff Apple sells, how much money they make, and whether they are taking away other company's laptop and netbook sales.

If I was Acer, I would worry how iPad sales affect my computer business. I wouldn't worry how iPod Touch and iPhone sales affect my computer business. And if I was Microsoft, I would worry how iPad and soon Android tablets will affect Windows sales.

Good post. I have to agree. All the talk, weather the iPad is a PC or not, doesn't matter. I am sure the folks at the various manufacturers couldn't care less about that. But what matters to them is, if the iPad snatches money away from their business or not. And not only so, by losing on potential hardware sales but more so, that :apple: customers are drawn into :apple:'s ecosystem. iPad owners who invested a few bucks on apps will most likely remain loyal when spending money on future upgrades.
 

gorgeousninja

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2007
360
0
secret mountain retreat
Oh and regarding the "it's a computer if it competes with computers" argument, that line there between computers/non-computers is so blurry it virtually is non-existant either. Since when were humans, and specifically our buying habits, so rigid and easily explained?

Consider this hypothetical:
1) I have a Mac Pro, but need something to use out on the go.
2) All I need is to quickly check a website, check my email, and play the occasional game, and that it be as light and portable as possible.

Myself, I'd buy the 13' Macbook Pro. Others may understandably buy the MB Air. Still others might go for the iPad. Others may just trash their old phone while they're at it and buy an iPhone.

To judge that one thing competes with another in a particular "market" involves arbitrarily defining a "market" in the first place, not something that is in the least bit objective. The overlap between the feature list of the iPod Touch or iPhone and iPad is lengthy, yet a person who buys the former is for whatever reason not shopping in the "PC" market, while the latter is?

"You're buying a hamburger I'm buying an apple, you can't just go around calling it all food can you!"
 

gorgeousninja

macrumors 6502
Mar 27, 2007
360
0
secret mountain retreat
I just find it funny how it seems to be only die hard Apple fanboys seeming to agree with it and try to defend it.

I think you'll find a lot more people than your so-called diehard fan-boys are watching how much the iPad is growing. You can twist and re-word definitions as much as you like, for the other computer manufacturers that is a completely trivial and frankly irrelevant point- its their sales figures that they are sweating on.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,798
10,935
I'm assuming you mean the apparent correlation between strong iPad sales and a decline in Acer's (and other manufacturers, to a lesser extent)? There may be more to it than simple displacement. My belief is that netbook sales would've plummeted regardless of the success of the iPad.

Your belief versus a market analysis. I'm not saying who is right or wrong, but the probability is with the professionals that study the market.

You missed my argument. I meant that saying things like "It's in the PC market if it competes directly with PCs." don't prove anything, as with the complex buying habits of people, anything beyond a strict apples-to-apples comparison is wide open for interpretation. You and this analyst may feel that the iPad competes with PCs, but I'm not sure it's as direct as you think.

It isn't about "feeling" anything. It's about studying the market, interviewing consumers, and analyzing the results. Of course, their conclusions can be wrong. But unless you present data to contradict their claims, it's only your opinion against there opinion (which is based on a lot more data). Multiple market research firms have claimed that the iPad is displacing netbook sales.

Yes that's the point though, of course my analysis of a certain market will be "justified" and "accurate", because I defined that market; I can include any product I want to that competes in my chosen market. Doesn't mean that it is truly representative of what is happening in the overall picture of consumer spending and product success.

Not sure what your point is here. The market is defined by the requirements of the study. You don't just throw bananas in their for fun. If your analysis doesn't provide valid insight for your clients, you don't make money.

I don't follow you, you're saying that because iPads displace netbook sales, and because netbooks are PCs, then iPads compete with PCs?

Yes. That seems obvious and uncontroversial.

So I quite confidently assert that iPod Touches most definitely steal a portion of potential iPad sales, then it too is a PC because it competes with the iPad (to you, a PC).

Yes and it makes plenty of sense to include, oh let's call them "ultra-portable mobile computers" i.e. iPods. As I illustrated in my above point and the hypothetical buyer facing the choice of Macbook vs. iPad vs. iPod, it's not entirely unreasonable to say they do compete with iPads. Apple sails to the top!

No, I haven't said that an iPad is a PC for the purpose of this analysis. I said it competes in the PC market. Back to that arbitrary definition of PC.

The iPad isn't limited to the PC market. It also competes in the mobile device market, and that is where comparisons to the iPod touch would be appropriate.

It also competes in what is being called the "media tablet" market. If, at some point, "full PC tablets" (or whatever you want to call them) begin to catch on and displace sales of "media tablets" than the definition of that market will likely be changed to include the "full PC tablets" in the analysis.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors G3
Jan 24, 2008
8,798
10,935
http://kensegall.com/blog/2011/01/a...&utm_campaign=Feed:+observatory+(observatory)

http://d8.allthingsd.com/20100603/d8-video-microsoft-ceo-steve-ballmer-on-the-ipad/

Here’s what Ballmer said when interviewed by Walt Mossberg at the All Things Digital conference last June. Skip to the 3:26 mark to see this exchange:

Mossberg: …this is semantics maybe, but, you’re using the term PC — I thought I just heard you use the term PC — to kind of envelop the things that I think a lot of average people don’t think of as PCs, like the iPad, or other tablets that might be coming. Is that kind of thing a PC?

Ballmer: Sure, of course it is.

Mossberg: It is.

Ballmer: Of course it is. It’s a different form factor of PC.

While it hurts to be on the same side of an argument as Steve Ballmer, I agree. Ballmer’s comments validate the Canalys numbers. With Apple now at 10.8% of the worldwide PC shipments, they’re a stone’s throw behind Acer’s 12.8%. And not imaginably far behind HP’s 17.7%.
 

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,113
1,353
Silicon Valley
With Apple now at 10.8% of the worldwide PC shipments, they’re a stone’s throw behind Acer’s 12.8%. And not imaginably far behind HP’s 17.7%.

HP will soon announce new tablets of their own (ARM powered with their own vertically integrated touch optimized OS, just like Apple) to add to their PC shipment numbers.
 

Vulpinemac

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2007
677
0
A mouse works just as well as swiping your finger all over the screen.

No, it doesn't. Over the years my hand and arm have gotten a bit... twitchy. What this means is that as I move my mouse around and prepare to click (thumb, left-, right-, etc.) I can and often do end up twitching which pushes the pointer off the place I want to click. You can't imagine how annoying it is to drag the mouse back to the exact, same position and try to click again--often with the same result because my hand itself is in the same position. Oddly, I do not have this issue with a touch screen; I simply touch the place I need to click and I'm done. Drag and drop is just as easy.

So, no, a mouse does not work as well as touch.
 

firewood

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2003
8,113
1,353
Silicon Valley
It's about Enterprise

All products compete for money, the question is how directly. Formerly, big companies purchased iPods out of the marketing toy and gift budget, not the IT budget. They didn't compete for the same budget line item dollar. And the numbers of Windows tablets purchased was smaller than a rounding error. The big change now is that companies have started to purchase huge numbers of iPads out of the budget for personal computing IT, and giving them to employees to connect to the web and the company's internal net. Same budget. Similar uses.

If people use it for the same computing (mostly running the Javascript on web pages it seems), and it fights for the same dollars as PCs, then might as well group it in for the financial analysts who are interested in who's winning those IT dollars.
 

Vulpinemac

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2007
677
0
but at the end of the day iPad is not a PC.

Hell even Steve Jobs has said it. He said the iPad fell in the area between netbook and smartphones. Lines are burred over time but iPad is much closer to the iPhone than a netbook.

Netbooks are at the limit of what I would call a PC.

If you will review the keynote where Steve Jobs announced the iPad, he said the iPad falls in the area between Notebook and Smart Phone -- exactly the area that the Netbook occupies.

Quite honestly, I never understood the popularity of the netbook simply because it was so crippled. On the other hand, the iPad meets my mobility computing needs almost perfectly. Far more convenient than a notebook and easier to share than a netbook.
 

Vulpinemac

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2007
677
0
By what I mean is, I shouldn't have to have to connect it to a computer to update, or to a computer to activate.

It shouldn't have to rely on another device to do these basic things. Remember Steve himself said the iPad is a device to come between the iPhone and the laptop.

When it can be completely free of being tied to iTunes for almost everything, I would be more willing to call it a computer.

You really need to do some studying; once activated, the iPad never needs to touch another computer. You can download software, create files, email or upload to the cloud and even update installed software without ever seeing iTunes again.
 

Vulpinemac

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2007
677
0
Why even require people to activate these things? Before I got my first iPhone and iPod, I had never had to activate any phone, computer, mp3-player or any product in that category.

Didn't you? What about Windows? You've got a limited number of times Windows can be 'activated' before Microsoft disables it. Then you have to make phone calls every time you have to repair or reinstall that version just so they know (or think they know) you're honest and using a legal copy. Even Apple doesn't do that to you.

Every cell phone has to be activated one way or another -- someone at the other end of a phone line or computer connection has to 'turn on' the number you were given. I've never had to 'activate' any iPod I've owned.

Something you seem to overlook, though, is that like any mobility device that uses a wireless connection, that connection itself needs some form of 'activation' for security reasons if nothing else. This 'activation' of an iPad is as much that as it is registering the device for warranty coverage. iTunes connectivity simplifies the transfer of music, video and other media into the device as well as offering a backup capability -- encoded for security if desired -- that it wouldn't have otherwise unless you happen to trust the 'cloud' implicitly.
 

Vulpinemac

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2007
677
0
having impacts on sells of netbooks does not mean that should be counted in PC sells. There are tons of other markets that are effects by different once but items in them are still considered different.
Should we count TV as computer monitor sells because yes it steals from computer monitors because people will be a TV and use it as a computer monitor big time at 1080p ones?
No we should not. Still very different markets. But they do effect each other directly.
While I have heard of certain 1080p televisions advertised as 'computer ready', I certainly haven't heard of them having any effect whatsoever on computer display sales. Have you got evidence?

Smart phone easily could be stealing from netbooks sells, iPod Touch could easily be shown to be stealing sells.
Should they be counted?

No they should not.
Why not? If they've been having an effect on netbook sales, then they should be counted. However, neither the iPhone nor any Android devices had any visible effect on netbook numbers, but the iPad most definitely generated a visible effect that has pushed two brands that leapt up the listings with their netbooks back downward again. Even laptop computer sales visibly dropped after the iPad was introduced -- by every brand except Apple. With the possible exception of Toshiba, Apple was the only brand to see double-digit growth in computer sales, not counting iPads, while many major brands saw single- or double-digit losses last year.

I would even say other tablets running android should not get counted.
Lines are blurred but there comes a point were it is clear they crossed it. This one people screaming iPad counted as PC just seems to be covered with Apple Fanboys screaming how great it is.
And why not? Android is nothing but a different version of Linux, which is even considered a computer OS while nearly everybody denigrates iOS as only a smart phone OS -- totally ignoring the fact that it, too, is a version of OS X which is a fully-certified stand-alone iteration of UNIX.

Is the iPad a computer yes it is, so is the iPhone and iPod touches are computers. But is it a PC hell no. You do not want it to happen because it complete wrecks you case. 240% increase in sells at the size of Apple is pretty much BS. Only people who get caught up in this are either Apple fanboys or people who do not understand the market. You also have failed to address the issue that Steve Job the Apple fanboy god has even said that the iPAD IS NOT A PC

Now, you, yourself just acknowledged that the iPad is a computer, no? PC stands for Personal Computer, no? So, the iPad is a Personal Computer, though I will acknowledge that it doesn't have the same kind of power -- yet -- that a full-blown desktop or laptop computer enjoys.

However, just as the netbook was intended to be an in-between, mobility device for the technical crowd, the market for them exploded because it offered cheap computing for the consumer -- a market it was never intended to meet, though the concept originated as an inexpensive way to bring computing to the people of third-world countries who flat couldn't afford to buy even basic desktop computers. Steve Jobs and Apple saw this new market and realized right up front that the netbook was a stop-gap device, not truly a mobility device as such; it simply had too many limitations.

It is well-known that Steve Jobs doesn't like to go off half-cocked (shooting reference) and release a half-made product. The results of experimentation triggered the launch of the iPhone and iPod Touch as a kind of new-style PDA, just after the regular PDA market effectively died. It took no time at all to realize that he had a hit on his hands and started looking at ways to improve on that base. If you look at it, the 1st-gen iPad is roughly equivalent in capability to the iPhone 3G(s), though it also offers things the iPhone itself doesn't include even though it has the memory capacity to perhaps do them.

So yes, in many ways the iPad is "just a bigger iPhone without the calling capability". Well, Skype gives it the calling ability. However, the iPad, as I said, has other abilities that come closer to the abilities of a netbook than even the iPhone does; the screen is large enough to create documents and makes photo editing and other tasks easier than even the tiny screens of the early netbooks (which were only 7" diagonal if that much). Newer netbooks have grown to larger screens, but many of those are now called sub-notebooks due to increased size and performance than they are 'netbooks'. The touch interface makes doing these tasks even easier than doing them on a full-powered notebook -- excepting text-heavy editing, that is.

Where's the delineation between smart phone and computer? Apparently screen size. If you'll note, Motorola has prototyped a docking station where a smart phone can be plugged in and have a full keyboard and large display available. That should easily let it fit into the netbook category, no? Other companies have already built cases for the iPad that include a battery-powered Bluetooth keyboard that gives it even the same form factor as a netbook while retaining the touch-screen capability rather than forcing you to use a mouse or touchpad.

No, the biggest complaint here isn't whether or not an iPad is a PC, the biggest complaint is that the iPad is an Apple product that fills the same purposes as a netbook without the same form-factor; something easily added with a third-party case.
 
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