Well, yes. $13.1 billion this Q1, $13 billion last Q1.
But, is it so bad that it didn't change? Remember, 13.1 billion dollars in profit.
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Apple Reports Best Quarterly Results Ever in Q1 2013: $13.1 Billion Profit on $54.5 Billion in Revenue [Call Ended]
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But, is it so bad that it didn't change? Remember, 13.1 billion dollars in profit.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Love the idea/dream. I love it. BUT... what they did with music was entirely different. The music guys believed they had little choice. They didn't realize what it could become. They were desperate to solve the piracy problem and this seemed like one good way. Now they continue to try everything they can think of to get out from under Apple's thumb.
The video side watched all this go down. They don't want to make the same mistakes their music cousins made. They see how much video could become. They are far from desperate. Piracy is not nearly as rampant. And there are many options beyond just Apple through which they can leverage their products.
But, even if Apple can get them to somehow play ball on par with the music company deal, Apple's solution will still need to be distributed through pipes owned by the cable/satt companies who like their business "as is". If Apple could "win" anyway (in terms of replacing their cable TV sub revenues), expect broadband rates to make up the losses by substantially rising.
Again, I completely love the dream of it all. It just comes apart when one thinks it through. Why will the video companies allow themselves to get under Apple's thumb like their music company cousins? Why will they risk the lucrative flows of cash they make now from the "as is" to gamble on a replacement model from Apple? How does Apple's replacement make them more money, make Apple more money and deliver all of what we consumers want for much less than our cost of cable? Why does our cable provider NOT crush Apple's replacement solution if Apple's solution must flow through the cable provider's broadband pipes? And on and on.
Don't shoot the messenger.
Lilo777 is an incessant troll. Just ignore him.
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This quarter was a week shorter than Q1 2012. Daily revenue increased by ~8%.
It did drop but I think it's short sighted. There were a lot of new products this quarter. Profit margins are always smallest in the first quarter due to yields usually improving over time. Revenue being so high tells us that the profit has room to grow as yields improve (or Apple finds suppliers with better prices).
So now iPhone 5 is on it's way to becoming the new best selling iPhone ever. Should already be close to or exceeding GS3 lifetime sales.
And yet the narrative is that Samsung is "winning" in spite of having no way of retaining users without any ownership of software or media. SMH. Just hoping I can remain solvent for longer than the market can remain irrational.
Exactly. Slowest growth since '09. Time for Apple to release a TV this year.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-23/apple-s-holiday-sales-miss-predictions.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100402489
Is that really too much of a surprise, considering the Galaxy S3 was on the market for a couple months before the iPhone 5?
Yeah, and when the new model comes out, they buy it by the millions.
It tells me that Wall Street expects Apple to be the wonder company, blowing away expectations by billions of dollars every quarter.
Apple did this for a few quarters in 2011 and 2012, if I remember correctly, and everyone was buying the stock. Up went the share price.
But then, stuff like this happened.
Ouch. Just, ouch.
After reading this thread I realize that I know nothing of and will never understand the stock market.
However, what others have mentioned regarding Apple's stock price of $700 being a bubble seems reasonable to me. Thankfully, I couldn't afford Apple stock (and still can't) and these results affect me very little, but it definitely puts some fear and trepidation into the act of playing in the stock market. Thankfully, Apple is still making money hand over fist, so I have no doubt they'll continue to make great products.
But I feel that their entire inventory has matured, and products will not be significantly different from what they are now, save from some hyper-futuristic holographic 3-D display or something like that. Can't reinvent the wheel folks, it is what it is.
Another huge factor is that Steve is not here. The man's taste and (more importantly) vision is what drove innovation at Apple (let alone the industry). We need to ask ourselves: Where do we go from here? How can Apple re-invent their products and how we compute in general? I really feel that Steve achieved his vision for computing devices. I believe the iPad model to be the pinnacle of "computing for the rest of us." That model is now being refined to a gloss by Apple, Android, and even Microsoft, where the so-called "innovation" is now a matter of taste and uniqueness of approach. I just cannot see how much more "innovative" and or "revolutionary" things can get, short of jacking into the Matrix.
With that in mind, what product could be released by Apple that would drive the stock up back to the (sky-high) $700 share price? I don't know; like I said, I don't understand the stock market. But on the product side, things can't get much better, faster, etc, so as to justify product upgrade cycles like we'd seen until now. My 2yr old 17"MBP is still freaking fast, stunningly beautiful, and reliable. My iPhone 4s is still smooth as ever, takes great pics and video, and is every bit as useful as I could possibly imagine. Hell, I still use the iPad 1!
Apple, being mainly a hardware-sales-driven company, needs Jony Ive to pull a rabbit out of his hat at this point, with something completely out of left field. I can't wait to see if he does, though.
If only Apple would spread their wings a bit and go to a 3 model lineup, like I've alluded to in other threads!! A larger iPhone, iPad, MBP(17"!!), Air, added to the existing lines. Pipe dream, I know, but at least make 3 iPhone sizes. That's the cash cow. I think if they do it, maybe their stock would balance out or go up..
After reading this thread I realize that I know nothing of and will never understand the stock market.
However, what others have mentioned regarding Apple's stock price of $700 being a bubble seems reasonable to me. Thankfully, I couldn't afford Apple stock (and still can't) and these results affect me very little, but it definitely puts some fear and trepidation into the act of playing in the stock market. Thankfully, Apple is still making money hand over fist, so I have no doubt they'll continue to make great products.
But I feel that their entire inventory has matured, and products will not be significantly different from what they are now, save from some hyper-futuristic holographic 3-D display or something like that. Can't reinvent the wheel folks, it is what it is.
Another huge factor is that Steve is not here. The man's taste and (more importantly) vision is what drove innovation at Apple (let alone the industry). We need to ask ourselves: Where do we go from here? How can Apple re-invent their products and how we compute in general? I really feel that Steve achieved his vision for computing devices. I believe the iPad model to be the pinnacle of "computing for the rest of us." That model is now being refined to a gloss by Apple, Android, and even Microsoft, where the so-called "innovation" is now a matter of taste and uniqueness of approach. I just cannot see how much more "innovative" and or "revolutionary" things can get, short of jacking into the Matrix.
With that in mind, what product could be released by Apple that would drive the stock up back to the (sky-high) $700 share price? I don't know; like I said, I don't understand the stock market. But on the product side, things can't get much better, faster, etc, so as to justify product upgrade cycles like we'd seen until now. My 2yr old 17"MBP is still freaking fast, stunningly beautiful, and reliable. My iPhone 4s is still smooth as ever, takes great pics and video, and is every bit as useful as I could possibly imagine. Hell, I still use the iPad 1!
Apple, being mainly a hardware-sales-driven company, needs Jony Ive to pull a rabbit out of his hat at this point, with something completely out of left field. I can't wait to see if he does, though.
If only Apple would spread their wings a bit and go to a 3 model lineup, like I've alluded to in other threads!! A larger iPhone, iPad, MBP(17"!!), Air, added to the existing lines. Pipe dream, I know, but at least make 3 iPhone sizes. That's the cash cow. I think if they do it, maybe their stock would balance out or go up..
Internet technology has disrupted pretty much every form of media distribution over the past couple decades. Any type of content that could be delivered for cheaper through the internet has had its distribution channel radically altered. Netflix killed off Blockbuster, Apple killed off Tower Records, Amazon killed off Borders, newspapers are dying, videogame distribution is migrating to eShops, etc. TV is one of the last ones left and eventually it will go. I don't know if Apple is gonna do it and yeah the cable companies are gonna fight it, but TV shows are essentially content that can be delivered at cheaper cost through the internet. All it needs is for a company to fight the cable companies and give a better value proposition to consumers than having to pay them $50-100 to watch ESPN when its per sub fee is only around $5.
People need to divorce the fact that stock price is tied to earnings. The stock market is kind of like a hot potato, the last one holding the potato loses. What's happening her is that apple is no longer growing 40% per quarter, well gee, which company can forever? IT's only growing by 18%, which considering all the supply constraints, i'm actually pretty happy.... if i weren't an investor that is. All the investors aren't looking at apple's earnings and thinking, well gee, that's pretty cheap (compared to other companies), this earning is fine. They're thinking, gee gosh i don't want to be the last to sell, this news sounds bad let me sell now.
It's all about trends and not about fundamentals.
3x Cash?
For a company with a growth history like Apple, it's crazy for it to be selling at 3x its cash hoard. Since it has a dividend, this is a great buy right now if you want to hold it. The company is still growing, and its competitors are actually iPad vs the PC manufacturers. The gigantic PC market is transitioning to a tablet market. And instead of 5 or 10% of that market, Apple will have close to half of this one. And a P/E of 10? What does the market want? P/E of 10 is for value companies, not growth ones. If the share price heads down like it is, then wall street is insane - investing in cash is better than investing in the most successful company in the world??? Perhaps the stock market has truly become just a casino for inside traders.
For a company with a growth history like Apple, it's crazy for it to be selling at 3x its cash hoard. Since it has a dividend, this is a great buy right now if you want to hold it. The company is still growing, and its competitors are actually iPad vs the PC manufacturers. The gigantic PC market is transitioning to a tablet market. And instead of 5 or 10% of that market, Apple will have close to half of this one. And a P/E of 10? What does the market want? P/E of 10 is for value companies, not growth ones. If the share price heads down like it is, then wall street is insane - investing in cash is better than investing in the most successful company in the world??? Perhaps the stock market has truly become just a casino for inside traders.
Perhaps you need to learn a little bit of math. 14 weeks is more than 13 weeks. So profits are up 7+% YOY when you consider the difference in the length of your comparison quarter..
Bingo. The selloff is not because Apple is losing money or is a bad company. It's because these earnings misses are becoming a trend, missing expectations, numbers, etc, that Apple used to crush in years past. People are also still having their Steve Jobs moments where they are unsure where Apple's next revenue branch is going to come from. Will it be an Apple TV? The iPhone can grow in China, but it is reaching market saturation everywhere else. Apple can make a low cost iPhone, but then margins are driven even lower, causing the stock to drop more.
In short, Apple needs another new product to drive growth, or they are heading towards simply being a cash cow, meeting expectations most quarters and growing slowly.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
How does Apple make a product worth a premium price? Excellent hardware and excellent software combined in a single package.
Now think about an Apple Television and a separate
TV box. Both of those could deliver the same excellent software. Buy the premium priced television with the software built in or buy the $99 box and get the same software experience on the television we already own? If the logo is worth the premium, take one of those white Apple stickers that ship with a computer purchase, scratch off the Samsung, LG, Pana, etc logo and stick the Apple sticker in it's place.To me, this would be just like iOS being available as stand-alone software to run on any mobile phone. If we could run iOS in an Apple-endorsed way on a Galaxy, etc and get the exact same software experience, would we still buy only iPhone hardware? That's the problem with hanging the "next big thing" hat on the television rumor. It's software is conceptually separated from that hardware so that a $99 "software" purchase will replicate the exact same experience on anyone else's hardware.
Same point. Apple PCs are a unique mix of hardware plus software. If Apple endorsed OS X running on anyone's PC, I bet Apple hardware sales would plummet because the same Apple software experience could be run on cheaper hardware that may not be quite a "thin" or as "pretty". Sure some would still pay up for "thin" and "pretty", but it takes the masses to drive the growth that pushes AAPL to $700+.
Similarly, lots of tangible benefits come immediately with the purchase of the existing Apple products. Big tangible benefits of an Apple television depends on lots of other players helping Apple make it a success. While I can grasp what's in it for Apple, what's in it for the other players? The video creator wants to make more money with anyone's replacement solution. The cable company (who is also the broadband pipe provider through which Apple's replacement will need to flow) wants to make more money next year than they make this year. Some of us dreamers believe Apple's replacement will cost a lot less than we pay for cable now. How can all of that come to pass?
If the creators are going to make more, and the cable company is going to make more and Apple is going to inject themselves into the equation to make more, how are we going to pay less? And if we're not going to take the hit, who else in that chain is going to take the hit for our "better deal"?
Otherwise, it all comes down to just better hardware. Can Apple make better television hardware than Samsung, LG, Pana, Sharp, etc? Maybe? More than likely, the screen will be sourced from one or more of those same companies who will then pack the exact same screen in a case of their own with their own logo and sell it at razor thin margins (which will be many hundreds below Apple's price). Pair theirs with an
TV and you have the exact same screen quality running the exact same software for much less than buying the all-in-one from Apple. Motivating the Apple margin would then come down to how pretty the case of the Apple television would be vs. the less pretty case of the company that supplies the screen to Apple.And again, a big part of what makes iPhone and iPad innovations fuel huge rapid growth for AAPL is that we are almost obligated to buy a new one about every 2 years or so. It's hard to imagine that kind of frequency being replicated with a television.
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Yes, but that margins dropping remain a huge concern for investors. The iPad Mini is cannibalizing iPad sales, and the rumors of a low cost iPhone will only hurt margins even more if they become a reality. We've seen them drop from a 44% number to 38% and continuing to decline.
It's hard to say since Samsung's on quite a tear globally. Yet that said I really don't care who's first and who's second.
The good news is the announcement today.... it's in Tim Cook's favor and he deserves it. Hopefully this will lift just a little pressure off his shoulders for the current quarter.
I've always had a good feeling about the man, and while not as dynamic as Jobs, he shouldn't be compared. After all he's as unique of an individual as everyone else is, and would not have the position if he wasn't an exceptional, proven, Apple executive.
Cheers for Tim!
Compare to Amazon.
Also (dis)regard an anecdotal comment to an obscure blog by an obscure poster.
Since we're chatting doesn't Peace's latest avatar just want you to find a tab of acid?
The after hours price drop makes no sense on this kind of results. It is pure market manipulation. "Analysts" give unrealistic guidance in purpose, so they can buy low, when fools panic and sell.
On the other note, I do think that Apple is being lazy and stagnant. "The pipeline is chock full"? New iPhone every 2 years? Fixing antenna takes 14 month? This is a joke. Apple must release new products much more aggressively. Specifically, they should offer a wide range of iPhone devices: 4", 4.8", 5.5". Also the iPhone hardware design and OS are dated: where is the bezel-less futuristic iPhone? Are we suppose to get it from Samsung? Apple also should expand iOS devices into car infotainment, appliances, TVs - there is a lot of money to be made.
On the other note, I do think that Apple is being lazy and stagnant. "The pipeline is chock full"? New iPhone every 2 years? Fixing antenna takes 14 month? This is a joke. Apple must release new products much more aggressively. Specifically, they should offer a wide range of iPhone devices: 4", 4.8", 5.5". Also the iPhone hardware design and OS are dated: where is the bezel-less futuristic iPhone? Are we suppose to get it from Samsung? Apple also should expand iOS devices into car infotainment, appliances, TVs - there is a lot of money to be made.
7% growth, back that truck up
Microsoft had higher growth for most of the last decade
I agree with most of what you said, but I disagree with the notion that "market saturation" means they can't grow in those markets anymore. If this were true, all the car manufacturers would be finished. Smartphones have a MUCH higher turnover rate than cars. The question is who is likely to be a repeat customer? How many of Apple's customers will return and buy another iPhone after their contract is up or their phone dies vs how many of Android's will?
I know these forums are to express one's opinion, and as such, can't be stricken down as not being fact. Fair enough. But stock market in general and Apple stock in particular, have investor interest that is FAR from fair, analytical or objective.
It is really difficult to make a case that the price reflects objective behavior be it to sell it or to buy it. Let alone, that future, discounted cash flows, expectations of growth or other financial theories one may be tempted to advocate are to explain it. For example:
As of today:
P/E (Price over Earnings)
Apple trades at 11.64
Google trades at 23.24
Facebook trades at 159.69
Which, means at face value, that a future dollar to be made by Facebook is more valuable than a future dollar to be made by Google, and one to be made by Apple.
Apple's profit (NOT earnings, NOT income, but pure profit):
Q1 2011 (13 weeks) 5.99 billion (460 millions per week)
Q2 2011 (13 weeks) 7.31 billion (562 millions per week)
Q3 2011 (13 weeks) 6.62 billion (509 millions per week)
Q4 2011 (14 weeks) 13.1 billion (935 millions per week)
Q1 2012 (13 weeks) 11.6 billion (892 millions per week) 93% Year over Year growth
Q2 2012 (13 weeks) 8.8 billion (676 millions per week) 20%
Q3 2012 (13 weeks) 8.2 billion (630 millions per week) 6.7%
Q4 2012 (13 weeks) 13.06 billion (1,004 millions per week) 7.3%
Meanwhile Google (granted, I don't know when they would count the 14 week quarter, which only means one weekly number is lower and could show 2012 as having better growth):
Q1 2011 (13 weeks) 1.8 billion (138 millions per week)
Q2 2011 (13 weeks) 2.51 billion (193 millions per week)
Q3 2011 (13 weeks) 2.73 billion (210 millions per week)
Q4 2011 (13 weeks) 2.71 billion (208 millions per week)
Q1 2012 (13 weeks) 2.89 billion (222 millions per week) 60%
Q2 2012 (13 weeks) 2.79 billion (214 millions per week) 10%
Q3 2012 (13 weeks) 2.18 billion (167 millions per week) 79%
Q4 2012 (13 weeks) 2.89 billion (222 millions per week) 6.7%
Meanwhile Facebook:
Q2 2012 (13 weeks) 157 million LOSS
Q3 2012 (13 weeks) 59 million LOSS
Since Apple has around 72,000 employees, Google has 53,000 and Facebook has 4,000 or so, you could even make the case that Apple makes more PROFIT dollars per employee, which is almost double what Google would be for this quarter.
Facebook, would have to earn around 1.5 billion per quarter without adding employees and Google and Apple not to grow to justify that share price going forward. They might do it for a couple of quarters, but they would have to maintain it for years to come in order just to maintain the price, let alone grow it.
I find it hard to swallow that an investor should own stock of Facebook, over Google, over Apple. Especially since this is profit that no one, and I do mean NO ONE knows if it will come to pass. But that is what the market is saying right now...
tired of the stock game
one day apple should buy back all of its shares and tell the analysts and idiot speculators to go f themselves.
one day apple should buy back all of its shares and tell the analysts and idiot speculators to go f themselves.