Apple Requests Sanctions Against Samsung Delivering Default Victory in Design Patent Case

[subsonix]

Again, talking about patents, it is ignorant to talk about copying, since infringement is not on the basis of copying at all.

However, copying someone's ip would infringe wether it's a patent or not so it's a rather pointless distinction to make imo.

 

[boronathan]

After you've explained it to them multiple times and they still persist in their ignorant rethoric, they are a little beyond forgiveness. You registered here a month ago, you'll learn. Of course, you've been trying hard to act like you know the forum better than some regulars...

I'm completely confused why you think i need to put in months of legwork to figure out the type of people who frequent this forum. I've been here longer then you. Maybe you took years to figure it out, i didn't. It's pretty obvious who's who and what their agendas are.

That being said, if the patent/copy thing had been explained multiple times and they still persist, then yes they are just as stupid as the idiots who take the jobs quote out of context.

Again, talking about patents, it is ignorant to talk about copying, since infringement is not on the basis of copying at all.

And you don't need to be a lawyer to understand how patents work, what they protect, what criteria they need to respect in order to be granted or valid.

A little bold there, knight. No you don't need to be a lawyer to understand how patents "work", but you don't have the knowledge or the training (unless you're claiming to be a patent lawyer) to comment on the outcome of this case as if you've seen all the evidence or you were part of the discovery process. Your knowledge of this case comes from the media which reports what they want you to hear. If you claim that your knowledge comes from elsewhere please clarify.

The irony is that it seems not everyone understands why people post that quote. There is a deeper meaning there, beyond "stealing" and "copying". It's about building on the shoulders of giants and guess what, Apple did that (hence the quote in context and what it means) and others can very well also do that.

You're preaching to the choir. This is exactly what i was saying. The jobs quote is about innovating by taking preexisting ideas and improving on them. Again, I'm not commenting on whether or not Apple actually does any improving, I'm simply explaining what the quote meant to the people who think it means Apple just steals things or that jobs was saying they just steal things without caring what others think.

You're writing as if you're trying to explain to me what the quote means when i already know.

Apple has no right to try and take all the toys in the sandbox for itself. A lot of the patents Apple and others has put forth are getting challenged and invalidated, there's a reason for that and it goes back to people needing to understand what patents are, what they protect and what they have come to mean and stand for in the last 2 decades.

Who said they have the right? Not i. I've stated over and over that i think Apple owns some of the stupidest patents known to man. Patents that should never have been granted. Again, you're trying to teach me things i already know, it's like you're not reading anything I'm saying.

There is a far larger movement that is against software patents.

As there should be.

Take the time to learn about this forum, its culture and the discussions we've had before you try to pretend to teach us what is going on around here.

I've been lurking on this forum before you even registered! I'm not sure why we're having a pissing contest about who knows the forum better. Like i said, perhaps it takes you years of research to learn how a forum works, it doesn't for me. Please cut the mindless "i know this place better then you" drivel. Thanks.

 

[KnightWRX]

I'm completely confused why you think i need to put in months of legwork to figure out the type of people who frequent this forum. I've been here longer then you. Maybe you took years to figure it out, i didn't. It's pretty obvious who's who and what their agendas are.

Sure you've got it all figured out Mr. Jul. 2012. If you had been lurking (because you can't seriously claim to have been here longer then me unless you mean reading the forums and only lurking here for years prior) as long as you just pretended, you'd know how much people have to get told what a patent is and what it protects after they go all "copying!" as if these were copyrights/trademarks and that no matter how much we explain patents, people still go "Copying!" (the same people...).

A little bold there, knight. No you don't need to be a lawyer to understand how patents "work", but you don't have the knowledge or the training (unless you're claiming to be a patent lawyer) to comment on the outcome of this case as if you've seen all the evidence or you were part of the discovery process. Your knowledge of this case comes from the media which reports what they want you to hear. If you claim that your knowledge comes from elsewhere please clarify.

I've clarified many times and if you actually bothered to read my posts, you'd know where my information comes from : Court documents, official patents, trademark registrations, etc... The actual documents you find on PACER or bailii or any other court system or from the USPTO and other patent offices around the world. I try not to just look at the media spun information, I go for actual judge decisions, defendant/plaintiff complaints/claims/counter-claims/motions, heck, even the IP as registered rather than reported by the media etc..

I've linked to these dozens if not hundreds of times. If you'd know me and read my posts, you'd know. After all, you've been here longer than I have right ?

You're preaching to the choir. This is exactly what i was saying. The jobs quote is about innovating by taking preexisting ideas and improving on them. Again, I'm not commenting on whether or not Apple actually does any improving, I'm simply explaining what the quote meant to the people who think it means Apple just steals things or that jobs was saying they just steal things without caring what others think.

Obviously, I'm not preaching to the choir since you're not understanding yet. That quote is aimed at Apple proponents who claim Apple innovates while others only "steal" and "copy". The people giving out that quote want to show that if what others are doing is wrong, then the whole concept of "Building on the Shoulders of Giants" is simply "stealing" or "copying", which is a completely ludicrous position to take.

In other words, someone claiming Google copies while Apple innovates is being two faced. Both Google and Apple build on the shoulders of giants. Both are "Great Artists" in the Jobs quote.

----------

However, copying someone's ip would infringe wether it's a patent or not so it's a rather pointless distinction to make imo.

I'm sorry, but copying a "patent" only gives you a piece of paper that describes how to do something. So no, copying someone's IP in this case does not infringe the patent.

You need to actually develop, debug, test a product/piece of code to infringe on a patent. And since you didn't have access to the original, there's a freaking good chance you won't end up with a 1:1 copy. Even in the case of design patents, you just have to see what the conceptual drawings are like in US504889 to know you would never have a working product just from the patent.

Patent infringement is not copying. Copyright and Trademarks protect direct copying.

 

[subsonix]

I'm sorry, but copying a "patent" only gives you a piece of paper that describes how to do something. So no, copying someone's IP in this case does not infringe the patent.

You need to actually develop, debug, test a product/piece of code to infringe on a patent. And since you didn't have access to the original, there's a freaking good chance you won't end up with a 1:1 copy. Even in the case of design patents, you just have to see what the conceptual drawings are like in US504889 to know you would never have a working product just from the patent.

Patent infringement is not copying. Copyright and Trademarks protect direct copying.

The IP refers to the object that is being protected, the idea, not the piece of paper it's written on. Copying that idea would clearly be infringing the patent, since patents protect ideas and give exclusive rights to the patent holder.

When we are talking about copying here we are obviously not talking about someone copying a document and putting it in a drawer, but copying the idea, and use it in a product.

Secondly a patent is a monopoly on the IP in question, you can infringe accidentally without knowing there is an existing patent. That is not the case for copyright, if you can prove that you did not copy but came up with the same work you are not infringing.

 

[boronathan]

Sure you've got it all figured out Mr. Jul. 2012. If you had been lurking (because you can't seriously claim to have been here longer then me unless you mean reading the forums and only lurking here for years prior) as long as you just pretended, you'd know how much people have to get told what a patent is and what it protects after they go all "copying!" as if these were copyrights/trademarks and that no matter how much we explain patents, people still go "Copying!" (the same people...).

What benefit would i have by lying about how long I'm lurking. Your behavior is becoming increasingly bizarre with every post. If you can tell me the point of the pissing contest, maybe then I'll engage. Yes, i have been lurking longer then you have been registered. I've been here in the days of page one, I've been here since the sites inception. Is it so unbelievable that I've lurked here? Really unable to comprehend why this seems to matter to you...

I've clarified many times and if you actually bothered to read my posts, you'd know where my information comes from : Court documents, official patents, trademark registrations, etc... The actual documents you find on PACER or bailii or any other court system or from the USPTO and other patent offices around the world. I try not to just look at the media spun information, I go for actual judge decisions, defendant/plaintiff complaints/claims/counter-claims/motions, heck, even the IP as registered rather than reported by the media etc..

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying like i asked.

I've linked to these dozens if not hundreds of times. If you'd know me and read my posts, you'd know. After all, you've been here longer than I have right ?

No Mr. 2009 i haven't. You are the forum champion! again...why?

Obviously, I'm not preaching to the choir since you're not understanding yet. That quote is aimed at Apple proponents who claim Apple innovates while others only "steal" and "copy". The people giving out that quote want to show that if what others are doing is wrong, then the whole concept of "Building on the Shoulders of Giants" is simply "stealing" or "copying", which is a completely ludicrous position to take.

In other words, someone claiming Google copies while Apple innovates is being two faced. Both Google and Apple build on the shoulders of giants. Both are "Great Artists" in the Jobs quote.

This is exactly what I'm saying, knight. Why do you keep repeating this?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Post deleted by moderator

umm you know this is just an example of why Apple fans are thought of as stupid and ignorant because Apple did not invent it. They had been used for years before Apple started doing it. Only reason people relate it to Apple is great press and as such the press jump on looking at them and that made keynots popular but they had been going on that way for years before hand.

 

[KnightWRX]

What benefit would i have by lying about how long I'm lurking. Your behavior is becoming increasingly bizarre with every post. If you can tell me the point of the pissing contest, maybe then I'll engage. Yes, i have been lurking longer then you have been registered. I've been here in the days of page one, I've been here since the sites inception. Is it so unbelievable that I've lurked here? Really unable to comprehend why this seems to matter to you...

No Mr. 2009 i haven't. You are the forum champion! again...why?

Because the way you seem to ignore every discussion that has gone on in the past doesn't actually indicate you've done any kind of lurking at all. So have you or have you not lurked in the forum ? Have you read the dozens of threads on this subject, where all the points you bring back today have been mentionned, re-mentionned, debate, re-debated, ad nauseum or not ?

That is why I question your sincerity when you say you've been here "longer". Why choose now to register and post like there's no tomorrow putting into question forum regulars (you question my sources, but if you've been lurking, you've already seen them so often... *mind blown*).

This is exactly what I'm saying, knight. Why do you keep repeating this?

Because that's not what you said. You called the people using that quote idiots. I'm telling you there's a 3rd level you're missing here. Those people are actually pretty darn bright.

It's the people who are extremists and biased that are being called out by this. Those that claim "everyone just copies, Apple innovates!" and don't pretend there's no poster here like that, I have an ignore list full of them.

 

[boronathan]

Because the way you seem to ignore every discussion that has gone on in the past doesn't actually indicate you've done any kind of lurking at all. So have you or have you not lurked in the forum ? Have you read the dozens of threads on this subject, where all the points you bring back today have been mentionned, re-mentionned, debate, re-debated, ad nauseum or not ?

That is why I question your sincerity when you say you've been here "longer". Why choose now to register and post like there's no tomorrow putting into question forum regulars (you question my sources, but if you've been lurking, you've already seen them so often... *mind blown*).

There really is no way to convince you that I've lurked, if you know a way please tell me and I'll be happy to oblige. It's just taking away from any semblance of a discussion if your rebuttal is telling me to learn the forum. I've been here forever, and i chose to register and post recently.

Why? Just cause. I don't have a specific reason that caused me to suddenly register. And since i did just register of course it'll seem like I'm posting "like there's no tomorrow"

Because that's not what you said. You called the people using that quote idiots. I'm telling you there's a 3rd level you're missing here. Those people are actually pretty darn bright.

It's the people who are extremists and biased that are being called out by this. Those that claim "everyone just copies, Apple innovates!" and don't pretend there's no poster here like that, I have an ignore list full of them.

No. I called the people who use that quote as a trump card to "prove" Apple steals idiots. I made that clear several times. When the quote is taken out of context, that doesn't make the person bright.

Of course there are posters here that say stupid things and worship apple. You seem to think i don't believe that.. I do. I know there are.

you're giving the people who take the quote out of context the benefit of the doubt, but not those who say everyone just copies.

In other words, you're ok to assume that when posters use that quote out of context, they mean Apple also stands on the shoulders of giants. But if someone says Google copies, you will not consider that those people are saying Google stands on the shoulders of giants. Instead you're labeling them as extremists. Why doesn't it work both ways?

 

[KnightWRX]

There really is no way to convince you that I've lurked, if you know a way please tell me and I'll be happy to oblige.

Just post in a way that indicates you've followed forum culture. A lot of your posts seem to be generally lacking understanding of the poster culture around here.

Just an impression you give off. You don't seem to know the regulars at all. I can usually tell by a thread topic what the general tone of the different regular posters will be or if they will even participate or not in the thread. Something someone who has lurked here would know about basically.

Heck, I'm sure even most lurkers/regulars can just tell a user by his avatar (except in the case where people constantly switch them).

 

[boronathan]

Just post in a way that indicates you've followed forum culture. A lot of your posts seem to be generally lacking understanding of the poster culture around here.

Just an impression you give off. You don't seem to know the regulars at all. I can usually tell by a thread topic what the general tone of the different regular posters will be or if they will even participate or not in the thread. Something someone who has lurked here would know about basically.

Heck, I'm sure even most lurkers/regulars can just tell a user by his avatar (except in the case where people constantly switch them).

not something i can convince you of but believe me i know the regulars. In fact, i could present exactly how and what they post but might just end up offending people.

I still stand by there's no need to study this so called forum culture or be a part of the forum for months, before you know this stuff. Look at the topics on the first page and look at the posters. You'd have to be a fool to not pick up posting behaviors of the regulars. I think you think you have some advanced knowledge of how this forum works. You don't.

All that being said, yes, i have been lurking here long before you registered .that doesn't necessarily mean I've been here longer as you may have lurked for a long time also. However, i did not just stumble upon macrumors last month.

I really don't know why this thread got derailed like this. Really makes no sense. I made the simple and correct statement that there is no point in trying to convince ppl that the jobs quote doesn't mean Apple just steals haphazardly.

Then we got into this ridiculous argument about who's been here longer...

 

[LordVic]

not something
Then we got into this ridiculous argument about who's been here longer...

I think that Knight should sue you, since he was registered first, he has the exclusive right to posting on the forum.

yo're clearly just like samsung and nothing but a copycat. Cause obviously, you never thought of forum posting till Knight was doing it first!



(sorry, I'm just tryign to bring the topic back on track through comedy)

 

[boronathan]

I think that Knight should sue you, since he was registered first, he has the exclusive right to posting on the forum.

yo're clearly just like samsung and nothing but a copycat. Cause obviously, you never thought of forum posting till Knight was doing it first!



(sorry, I'm just tryign to bring the topic back on track through comedy)

Lol no prob, i agree the whole "I've been here longer" thing was silly and i apologize for going so far off topic.

 

[kdarling]

There's a book on 2001, called 2001: Filming The Future by Piers Bizony, and it's brilliant. There's an article in it about Kubrick & Clarke's predictions, what they got right, what they got wrong and a fascinating insight into the whole process of 1960's thinking and futurology. Well worth a read... if you can source a copy.

Thanks again for that lead. I did find a good copy for only $10... a minor miracle!

It took me back to when Popular Science was doing articles on "2001" being made, and all about the huge wheel. Amazing stuff back before computer animation took over everything.

Did you notice the artwork on page 155, depicting someone using one of the Newspad tablets outside on the surface of the moon! Interestingly, it doesn't look like it's showing the usual newspaper or TV display, but perhaps a date and some info.