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Apple, SSDs, and the Fusion Drive Ripoff: The High Cost of Innovation
- Thread starter NextGenApple
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I took great pains to read your post carefully and have found your comment to quickly and easily disprove my post.
Would you by any chance know whether the non-SSD part of the Fusion Drive in the 27 iMac runs at 7,200 rpm?
Tbh I never thought of that but it would be extremely funny if the base harddrives in the fusions were all 5400. The funny thing is the difference in price between 5400s and 7200s is less than $10 for apple but they gotta get those margins up as high as possible so I wouldn't put it past them.
The technical specs for the 27" iMac list a 7200 rpm drive. I'm not sure why adding a Fusion Drive would bump you down to a 5400 rpm drive.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2012223/hybrid-hard-drives-how-they-work-and-why-they-matter.html
Fusion drives exist on PCs as well as Macs. They were called hybrid drives before Apple created the "Fusion" name. They have a good marketing department.
Fusion drives exist on PCs as well as Macs. They were called hybrid drives before Apple created the "Fusion" name. They have a good marketing department.
The PC stuff described in the article doesn't work like the thing Apple is calling a fusion drive. They are superficially similar -- they both combine a spinning hard disk with some flash storage; neither requires the use to configure anything -- but they are very different implementations.
The links I posted in a previous reply include some good explanations of the differences between the "hybrid drive" implementation and the fusion drive.
Well, they don't exist on PCs. There are hybrid drives. HD with a tiny 4 GB or 8 GB SSD drive that is used as a read cache. Not the same thing. Fusion accelerates the 128 GB that is used most, not just 4 or 8 GB. And it accelerates all writes, hybrid drives don't do that at all. And it gives more storage, unlike hybrid drive.
Very good article -- it points out why the fusion drive is clever marketing from Apple's strategy, and almost a consumer rip-off.
Consider:
1. Customer orders iMac, pays $250 for 1tb HDD and 128gb SSD, with fusion enabled.
2. Customer orders iMac, pays $300 for 1tb HDD and 256gb SSD, fusion not enabled.
But, add this step:
2a. Customer receives iMac with 256gb (non-fusion) drive (in addition to 1tb HDD)
2b. Customer clones OS and apps (as they come from Apple) to external drive
2c. Customer then boots to recovery partition
2d. Customer launches Disk Utility and attempts to "repair" SSD
2e. Disk Utility "sees" that SSD and HDD are installed but not "fused", and AUTOMATICALLY "repairs" the two drives into a combined fusion drive.
NOTE: see this page at OWC for details:
http://blog.macsales.com/15619-special-note-for-adding-an-ssd-to-a-2012-mac-mini
Pay attention to item #9 in the list.
NOTE 2: This was posted in a thread yesterday in the Mini forum, I believe (sorry, I didn't save the URL):
"No matter which method you use, once you have both an SSD and a platter-based drive installed in your Mac mini, you should not use the Disk Utility in your Recovery Partition on those drives; it will see those drives as a “broken” Fusion array and try to repair it, destroying your data in the process."
2f. Customer then "re-clones" factory-installed OS from backup to newly-created fusion drive.
RESULT:
Customer has spent $300 ($50 more than he would have spent for 128gb drive), and ends up with fully functional "fused" drives with a 256gb SSD instead.
ORDERING FUSION FROM APPLE IS A "BAD BUY" FOR THE CUSTOMER (shouting intentional).
You are paying $250 for the privilege of having the drive "fusion enabled" from Apple, that's all. You are paying FAR OVER market price for the 128gb SSD.
PAY LESS: For $50 more, get the 256gb drive (not fusion enabled), take the time to follow the procedure above, and end up with twice the storage space on the SSD portion of your fusion drive!
In other words, Apple is doing with the fusion drive the same thing they are doing with RAM -- charging the buyer a stiff premium, for something the buyer can do his/herself after purchasing with relative ease and save a lot of $$$.
Consider:
1. Customer orders iMac, pays $250 for 1tb HDD and 128gb SSD, with fusion enabled.
2. Customer orders iMac, pays $300 for 1tb HDD and 256gb SSD, fusion not enabled.
But, add this step:
2a. Customer receives iMac with 256gb (non-fusion) drive (in addition to 1tb HDD)
2b. Customer clones OS and apps (as they come from Apple) to external drive
2c. Customer then boots to recovery partition
2d. Customer launches Disk Utility and attempts to "repair" SSD
2e. Disk Utility "sees" that SSD and HDD are installed but not "fused", and AUTOMATICALLY "repairs" the two drives into a combined fusion drive.
NOTE: see this page at OWC for details:
http://blog.macsales.com/15619-special-note-for-adding-an-ssd-to-a-2012-mac-mini
Pay attention to item #9 in the list.
NOTE 2: This was posted in a thread yesterday in the Mini forum, I believe (sorry, I didn't save the URL):
"No matter which method you use, once you have both an SSD and a platter-based drive installed in your Mac mini, you should not use the Disk Utility in your Recovery Partition on those drives; it will see those drives as a “broken” Fusion array and try to repair it, destroying your data in the process."
2f. Customer then "re-clones" factory-installed OS from backup to newly-created fusion drive.
RESULT:
Customer has spent $300 ($50 more than he would have spent for 128gb drive), and ends up with fully functional "fused" drives with a 256gb SSD instead.
ORDERING FUSION FROM APPLE IS A "BAD BUY" FOR THE CUSTOMER (shouting intentional).
You are paying $250 for the privilege of having the drive "fusion enabled" from Apple, that's all. You are paying FAR OVER market price for the 128gb SSD.
PAY LESS: For $50 more, get the 256gb drive (not fusion enabled), take the time to follow the procedure above, and end up with twice the storage space on the SSD portion of your fusion drive!
In other words, Apple is doing with the fusion drive the same thing they are doing with RAM -- charging the buyer a stiff premium, for something the buyer can do his/herself after purchasing with relative ease and save a lot of $$$.
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Some people see computers as a pile of parts ...
And evaluate them on the sum of the prices for those parts. Other people actually have productive work to get done and view them as tools. Have you ever priced out auto parts? After market parts from the manufacturer are very expensive. 3rd party vendors are often cheaper. If you calculated the cost of the parts for a car from nothing but 3rd party vendors (not possible, I know but I'm on a roll) it would undoubtedly look like the OEM was a ripoff.
So quit crabbing about it, buy your parts, build a Hackintosh, set up Fusion on it and live happily ever after with the smug feeling that you've shown Apple a thing or two.
Me, I've got work to do.
And evaluate them on the sum of the prices for those parts. Other people actually have productive work to get done and view them as tools. Have you ever priced out auto parts? After market parts from the manufacturer are very expensive. 3rd party vendors are often cheaper. If you calculated the cost of the parts for a car from nothing but 3rd party vendors (not possible, I know but I'm on a roll) it would undoubtedly look like the OEM was a ripoff.
So quit crabbing about it, buy your parts, build a Hackintosh, set up Fusion on it and live happily ever after with the smug feeling that you've shown Apple a thing or two.
Me, I've got work to do.
and then Apple will release an update that will disable this
I agree with some of the things said here but as an Apple user, this is hardly anything new on how they do business
The Apple strategy of not offering the Fusion drive on the "base-level" 21.5" iMac follows marketing wisdom: the reason you offer a "base-level" of any product is because a majority of buyers will buy the "middle of the road" model, not the lowest model. In other words, you offer a "base-level" as a way to get buyers to buy the version you really want to sell - in this case it is the 21.5" upgraded model (faster processor and GPU card and can support the Fusion drive). Apple does this because it works - a lot of people dont want to buy the cheapest version of a product.
Their are two odd/misleading premises in this article.
1) The assumption that software, installation, support, and warranty are worthless.
2) The idea that the fusion drive is not innovative (breakthrough) because two other things exist that are similar but not the same (ssd cache and hybrid drives).
(And then the whole rant about forcing users to upgrade to the higher model is just batty.)
1) The assumption that software, installation, support, and warranty are worthless.
2) The idea that the fusion drive is not innovative (breakthrough) because two other things exist that are similar but not the same (ssd cache and hybrid drives).
(And then the whole rant about forcing users to upgrade to the higher model is just batty.)
It's a "rip off" if you are a technically-saavy user who is comfortable with physically working inside your computer (doubly so with a computer that is not designed to be easily physically worked on), who understands how the Fusion system is implemented, is comfortable with using command line tools to configure it and understands that if you make a mistake you will very likely destroy your data so you have a backup plan in place before you started.
Those types of users are, if not the majority on technical forums like these, are at least the plurality.
These users are not the plurality, much less the majority, of the general Apple consumer base.
Explain all those steps to someone like your father or mother or a co-worker who doesn't have your level and depth of knowledge. And also explain to them that if they make a mistake, they could damage their computer (requiring repair or replacement not under warranty at their own cost) or the loss of all their data.
Then ask them if paying $250 to Apple to do it (and cover it under warranty) is a "rip off".
I'm a very technically-saavy user who has the knowledge and skills to do this myself, but I would still pay Apple the $250 to do it for me and cover it under a warranty because even with my skills and knowledge, I could still make a mistake with the hardware-side of it and the costs of fixing that will almost certainly be more than $250.
sorry, but asking customer to pay 250 $ for 128 gigs SSD, or even worse, 200 $ for option to pay another 250 for that SSD (so in total 450$) is rip-off "per se", no matter how tech savvy customer you have...
That looks very promising...
For a hardcore PS user, one of the biggest time constraints is opening and saving large files. Seems like you will be able to get SSD performace with this scenario!
I guess that depends on what the cost is for an Apple authorized service technician to open your iMac, install a 128GB SSD (need to add that cost in, as well) and configure the iMac to use the SSD and the HDD as a Fusion Drive.
As to the price of the SSD, yes, I agree it's significantly more expensive than what you can buy on the open market. But that is not unique to Apple. Most major hardware OEMs (HP, Levono, Etc.) charge significantly more for "factory upgrades" then what one would pay on the open market.
I'm also looking at the "whole package" and not just the raw component price.
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I agree, it's over-priced because you are really just getting the 128gb of flash. If it was 256gb then it'd be nicer!
But if I were buying an iMac tomorrow I'd most definitely pay for that upgrade. I can't live with just a regular 7200/5400 anymore, I've tasted the speed and oh my days it's scrumptious.
But if I were buying an iMac tomorrow I'd most definitely pay for that upgrade. I can't live with just a regular 7200/5400 anymore, I've tasted the speed and oh my days it's scrumptious.
Agree 100%. I'll be staying away from Fusion Drive. Decent article with some good points. Thanks!
Sure, but it's Apple, a company well known for absurdly high priced CTO options down the line. $200 for going from 8GB to 16GB. Ha. Ha.
But buyers understand this same as when one goes to buy a luxury car and has to pay $300 for iPod connectivity or $2000 for GPS... probably last generation's GUI too. It's where companies make their margins.
I'm staying away from the Fusion because Apple's track record at implementing new tech is less than sterling and when we are talking data storage I'm very conservative and cautious.
But buyers understand this same as when one goes to buy a luxury car and has to pay $300 for iPod connectivity or $2000 for GPS... probably last generation's GUI too. It's where companies make their margins.
I'm staying away from the Fusion because Apple's track record at implementing new tech is less than sterling and when we are talking data storage I'm very conservative and cautious.
I have no idea which SSD Apple actually is using for this Fusion Drive.
But, as I know, Apple normally takes seagate's drives for iMacs. The hybrid drive from seagate (fx, momentus xt hybrid) does have the slc nand flash, even though the capacity is very poor. And, the price of slc nand flash is still sky high.
So, does anyone have any idea about this SSD part? SLC or DLC? If it is confirmed as an slc nand flash, I would say, it is totally worth your every single cent! Or, hold your money if you do not think that little enhancement is necessary.
But, as I know, Apple normally takes seagate's drives for iMacs. The hybrid drive from seagate (fx, momentus xt hybrid) does have the slc nand flash, even though the capacity is very poor. And, the price of slc nand flash is still sky high.
So, does anyone have any idea about this SSD part? SLC or DLC? If it is confirmed as an slc nand flash, I would say, it is totally worth your every single cent! Or, hold your money if you do not think that little enhancement is necessary.
Yes, you can get pcs with thunderbolt. What are you expecting the breakdown to reveal to you? We already know exactly what fusion drive thanks to the article on anandtech and common sense. It is simply two drives. One fast and the other slower + software algorithm to work out where to put files based on certain criteria. An ifixit tear down is not going to reveal the magic you're expecting. I can understand that paying so much for something this simple is hard to swallow and you want to believe there is some magic there though.
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Indeed. Early adoption of an algorithm that moves my data around considering Apple's track record with first versions? I would call it optimistic and that's being kind.
Except the 256GB SSD + 1TB HDD configuration option is no longer available for iMacs. In the new, thinner iMacs, there's only space for one conventional drive the SSD portion of the fusion drive is on a card inserted in the motherboard, same as it is on rMBPs and (iirc) current MBAs. And it's a pain in the ass to open up the machine and get in there, making aftermarket upgrades to that SSD slot somewhat infeasible.
So I'm still going to pony up the $250, but I am disappointed that Apple didn't either price the fusion upgrade lower ($150, say) or use a 256GB SSD instead for the $250 price.