The funny part is none of the other companies are even denying it. Their response has been to complain about Apple bringing it up. The laws of physics should apply only to Apple.
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Apple Targets Nokia With New Signal Attenuation Video
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The funny part is none of the other companies are even denying it. Their response has been to complain about Apple bringing it up. The laws of physics should apply only to Apple.
Couple of things:
1) What isn't factored into your calculations is that because of its more-sensitive antenna, the iP4 was able to make calls, in marginal signal areas, where the 3GS showed no signal and was not able to attempt or receive a call... dropping any of these "never-before-possible" calls would reflect poorly on the iP4, and be included in the "< 1 call per hundred" more dropped calls by the iP4.
2) <1 per 100 more dropped calls by the iP4 than the 3GS. "< 1" can mean anything from, say, .0000000001 to .9999999999. Without knowing the real delta fraction it is difficult to base calculations on it.
3) The 3GS came into being with a plethora of available cases-- the iP4 with 1 case, that was in so short supply as to be non-available. Apple stated that 80% of the 3GSs left their store with a case. So, many 3Gs had 2 layers of antenna shielding, the 3GS plastic housing and an external case. The bulk of iP4s had neither-- 0 levels of antenna shielding.
All of this has been widely reported (or obvious) to those who care to objectively examine the facts. So it is a bit disingenuous to make your assertions, without qualification.
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True, but a dropped call is a dropped call.
We both know that's a crock. If "<1" was anything less than 0.8, Apple would have said "barely over one half of one percent". But they didn't. That means it's more like .97 or .98 (bet me an iPhone!)
Wow. Mr. Jobs, I didn't realize it was you.
The point isn't whether a case mitigates the issue--I have no doubt that it does. But Apple is spinning facts and pretending the issue is the typical attenuation issue other phones has. It isn't (otherwise the iphone 4's that left the store without a case would be dropping fewer calls, not more)
Above that? HA!
Looks like someone forgot about the Mac vs PC ads.
It would be nice if Apple actually ACTED like an adult and not like it's own fanboi. :-\
And bunnies. Easter eggs and bunnies...sigh.
It's funny how people give Apple a hard time for spinning this information, when we all know the media was doing their own spin. If the media truly wanted the truth, they'd have conducted some research and have been able to really give us a good percent on how many people experience problems when using the iPhone 4 (I know, every phone has the "defect"...blah, blah, blah, blah). However, the real percent wouldn't make a good story. So, how can you blame Apple for at least trying to defend itself?
Apple is proving a point. A point that most consumers, many people on these macrumors boards and even intelligent users don't understand.
ALL phones are subject to detuning. The amount of detuning is up to the phone but this is natural. When someone told me, your signal drops when hold the iphone in a wierd way....no s***.
Anyone with half a brain should already know the outcome. Also, holding your phone a certain way doesn't create a blackhole. It creates a constant -24dbm drop. I'll say that again. CONSTANT! Not accelerating.
ALL phones are subject to detuning. The amount of detuning is up to the phone but this is natural. When someone told me, your signal drops when hold the iphone in a wierd way....no s***.
Anyone with half a brain should already know the outcome. Also, holding your phone a certain way doesn't create a blackhole. It creates a constant -24dbm drop. I'll say that again. CONSTANT! Not accelerating.
With all this being said by haters and non-haters, haters go to apple store or att and buy the i4 and see for yourselves, you have 30 days to return it for full refund. Take the time and really experience the phone, take to account in the mid 80's att had to deregulate it's control of market, so the public has a choice other than att as a service. So, there's your weak signal areas, some people has no choice but to have what's available to them and be stuck with a non-iphone product line and should not be complaining of lack of experience. Don't jump on the band wagon and base you conclusion from others and start hating the iphone since you haven't experience iphone 2g in the past.
You have nothing to lose but time, 30 days to see if it is compatible to you and your lifestyle. See if your willing to experience the antenna issue if any in your area and live with your findings. Or, is the antenna issue that bad that it over shadows your willingness to try. Just think, why people love this phone, there is something about it besides people using the glass and a razor on it. It's the advanced technology of it and the innovation that gets me, some people blow the $200 on meaning less things. It's an expensive toy, but would not lose a chance to experience one with no strings attached.
Just2see
You have nothing to lose but time, 30 days to see if it is compatible to you and your lifestyle. See if your willing to experience the antenna issue if any in your area and live with your findings. Or, is the antenna issue that bad that it over shadows your willingness to try. Just think, why people love this phone, there is something about it besides people using the glass and a razor on it. It's the advanced technology of it and the innovation that gets me, some people blow the $200 on meaning less things. It's an expensive toy, but would not lose a chance to experience one with no strings attached.
Just2see
Ah!
More accurately, at least in one case of my own Iphone 4 I ran into a case where my ear or face bumped the mute button (because the sensor thought my face wasn't hear it or the sensor was blocked) which caused the person on the other end to go "hello? hello?" which caused me to go "huh?" and then the person on the other end hung up before I could unmute.
That happened once.
I also saw, exactly once what appeared to be the sensor thinking my face was up to the phone when it was not - specifically: dialed a call, phone held at arms' length: screen goes blank instead of staying on, I get voicemail and want to hang up but I have to fiddle with it for the screen to come back on.
Part of these issues are happening because I'm using a case from my old iPhone that doesn't really fit the phone and I believe it's obscuring the sensor.
I swear guys: I'm pretty sure most of the people dropping calls are only dropping calls because of the proximity sensor issues.
Next time you drop a call, check to see if it says "Call Failure" on the screen. If it doesn't, it's probably the sensor. (I'm talking to a wall, I'm surebut if one person discovers the real problem, I'll be happy
If it does say call failure, take it to Apple and they'll give you a new one. Simple.
More accurately, at least in one case of my own Iphone 4 I ran into a case where my ear or face bumped the mute button (because the sensor thought my face wasn't hear it or the sensor was blocked) which caused the person on the other end to go "hello? hello?" which caused me to go "huh?" and then the person on the other end hung up before I could unmute.
That happened once.
I also saw, exactly once what appeared to be the sensor thinking my face was up to the phone when it was not - specifically: dialed a call, phone held at arms' length: screen goes blank instead of staying on, I get voicemail and want to hang up but I have to fiddle with it for the screen to come back on.
Part of these issues are happening because I'm using a case from my old iPhone that doesn't really fit the phone and I believe it's obscuring the sensor.
Apple should simply focus on resolving their own issues. It's not their job to be the "tattle tell" police pointing out problems or potential problems with their competitors. The press and/or markets will uncover issues with Apple competitors.
Disappointment
Seems Apple just keeps on digging themselves deeper and deeper. First they tell their customers to just "deel with it" about the antenna issue.. then they say it's an arroneous calculation of the signal bars (that was a funny one since the bars are now "accurate" and shows how bad AT&T really is lol). Now they are trying to divert the focus of their antenna design flaw by pointing the finger at the other phones., and btw were was the video test of their own iphone? Perhaps if they were more sincere and honest about their own issues then nobody would mind as much.. it's the undercoating and deception that people do not like; )
Seems Apple just keeps on digging themselves deeper and deeper. First they tell their customers to just "deel with it" about the antenna issue.. then they say it's an arroneous calculation of the signal bars (that was a funny one since the bars are now "accurate" and shows how bad AT&T really is lol). Now they are trying to divert the focus of their antenna design flaw by pointing the finger at the other phones., and btw were was the video test of their own iphone? Perhaps if they were more sincere and honest about their own issues then nobody would mind as much.. it's the undercoating and deception that people do not like; )
They weren't doing it for that purpose. It was to show people that it's a common problem with physics no matter who makes the phone. People were thinking that only Apple's iPhone has the problem and they were simply saying, no, it's not because it's apple product, it's because it's a cell phone.
Apple Apple Apple... or should I say Steve Steve Steve...
What you are doing right now is what a psychologist would call "diverting." You are simply trying to take away the focus of your own iPhone 4's faults and place everyone's attention on other brands that we do not care about. You admitted you screwed up (congratulations, that is a great first step). Now it is time to take another baby step and fix the problem... your problem... the iPhone 4.
What you are doing right now is what a psychologist would call "diverting." You are simply trying to take away the focus of your own iPhone 4's faults and place everyone's attention on other brands that we do not care about. You admitted you screwed up (congratulations, that is a great first step). Now it is time to take another baby step and fix the problem... your problem... the iPhone 4.
If this is the case then everyone should be complaining to every single cell phone manufacturer and demand a recall from them too. I don't hear or see that, though.
Oh you silly goose... that is because every other manufacturer's phones are not dropping calls... that is just one of the new things the iPhone is "changing again." It's funny because I've owned dozens and dozens of phones throughout the years including the iPhone 2G, 3G and 3GS and never experienced this garbage...
Yeah.... 2 bars on 3.5G..... And the iP4 goes to edge or even dropped calls cause of no signal. The nokia may have dropped to 2 bars but is still fine since it's still on the 3G network. It will take a lot more than that to drop it to edge...
You are 100% correct, this is exactly what Apple is doing and many in the press have raised the same fact. It is a classic and deliberate PR move to divert attention away from Apples own issues even if their competitors have the same or similar issues.
You know, I've been reading all this stuff, and was a bit worried while I waited for my iPhone4 to arrive. Since then, I have traveled to 4 countries on business, and have been a long distance train through rural areas. I have tried everywhere to use the death grip to drop the signal to 0, but I can't. I can't get it to drop a call, and I can't get it to lose signal - I can get it to 1 bar but I can still surf on 3G with that, and the call quality has been fine. I've used overseas carriers' SIM's too...And I'm left handed, and have no case.
At the end of all this, I've simply decided that for me, this phone is the best I've had, and I have no problem with it in any way. I'm just glad I won't have to read all this stuff and worry any more. Sorry if you have problems, but as everyone says, take it back. Being a long time Mac user I have no problem using equipment that is not the most common anyway.
At the end of all this, I've simply decided that for me, this phone is the best I've had, and I have no problem with it in any way. I'm just glad I won't have to read all this stuff and worry any more. Sorry if you have problems, but as everyone says, take it back. Being a long time Mac user I have no problem using equipment that is not the most common anyway.
Yes it would.. maybe that is why Toyota was able to surpass all these claims, assuming most of them were real since everyone is trying to make a quick buck these days lol. They dealt with their own problems and I would buy a Toyota any day
Question for you Hovey.. Are you working for Apple????
Is that you Mr. Jobs, answering questions again? lol
Actually it was the competitors that tried to use the antenna problems as a selling point and as propaganda.
http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/06/28/how-do-you-hold-your-nokia/
So the lot of them are fair game...
As for bloggers that just wanted to troll the issue to drive their numbers up the presentation (and answers that followed) were pretty much Jobs telling them to try and get a journalist degree and get their facts straight, and who could blame him?
Since the iPhone 4 as started shipping we've had the antenna problem that has being described as if the phone could simply not be used (numbers debunked that) without real investigation, fake Jobs e-mail, fake reports of an engineer warnings etc.
If it wasn't for anandtech this all would be a complete disaster. The way different technology sites reported the story is just pathetic.
LOL! Yeah it might drop a few bars but it doesnt show no service like the iP4.
The iP4 drops calls and shows no service thats the issue not how many bars it drops.
makes me laugh that Apple are doing everything they can to divert everyones attention away from the REAL ISSUE - HARDWARE DESIGN FAILURE.
And Apple know that everyone will get bored posting soon on this issue and therefore it will really become an non issue.
Apple aint gonna do sht about this.
The iP4 drops calls and shows no service thats the issue not how many bars it drops.
makes me laugh that Apple are doing everything they can to divert everyones attention away from the REAL ISSUE - HARDWARE DESIGN FAILURE.
And Apple know that everyone will get bored posting soon on this issue and therefore it will really become an non issue.
Apple aint gonna do sht about this.
*TWEEEEEEET* Illegal use of units. 5 yard penalty. Repeat first down.
dB is a ratio unit, usable in the context of "...a 24 dB drop." dBm is an absolute unit - dB up from a milliwatt.
Ok yeah,yeah whatevers Apple. You need to do a hardware fix. Quit pointing fingers. Because unless you can tell me, the other phones in question sold 3million AND told their users that their phone is awesome cuz they made the attenna better, you're not gonna get me to stop thinking Apple is da bomb.
That's the weird thing. It's only a small problem. But it's been reported by all these media and it's an Apple product, so it will get 'eyeballs'.
When the Nokia N97 came out (not in the US though) it was supposed to be the new flagship phone that was hailed as the 'iPhone killer'. But: the 'real' firmware wasn't ready and the preliminary version was riddled with bugs, the GPS antenna had a design fault requiring people to fiddle with bits of copper wire, the camera lens cover actually scratched the lens of the camera, the camera flash unit was creating a haze in every picture because of a design flaw and the phone either crashed, dropped calls or became unresponsive to its touchscreen several times a day.
Now, the Nokia forums and several blog sites were awash with people complaining. Many users left Nokia and swore they would never return. The company quickly released a follow-up model and provided hardware fixes - but only for people who actually complained. The whole N97 debacle was very badly handled by Nokia and they lost a lot of credibility with high-end users. Android and iPhone got a lot of new users.
Has any of this ever been reported in the mainstream media? Hell no.
See one post directly above yours: the Nokia N1. Both points refuted with one example!
The point, again, is that the signal drop through touching the "right" spot with a finger maxes out significantly lower than the signal drop through dense body attenuation, as you get when your hand or head is blocking the signal. They are different things, but the more significant one is the one Apple is showing here.
This is just how antennas work. You can degrade a signal by detuning it, but you can stop the signal dead by attenuation.