Apple, Tesla Fighting Over Top Employees

[Gasu E.]

http://www.hybridcars.com/consumer-reports-survey-tesla-is-americas-fifth-best-perceived-car-brand/


And what matters is if potential customers know the brand . Tesla doesnt need to be known to the general populace, thats not its target market . Tesla is not VW that sells 20k cars its pointless for them to be known to that market.

perhaps take a class on marketing/sales?

LOL, perhaps you should take that class yourself. Tesla appears to be losing money hand over fist at the moment. They are not going to be able to do this forever. It's very likely that their strategy is to move out of the rarified niche they are in currently, into the broad luxury car market, or even into mass markets. The alternative is to stick to their niche and reduce costs to achieve profitability; it seems unlikely that's what Musk has in mind. Therefore, everything you say about their "target market" is wrong, and reflects a basic lack of knowledge about marketing, product, and corporate strategy. So, please do take that class!

 

[thekeyring]

Second car related rumour this week. The conspiracy theorist in me says these are controlled leaks for the 'projects not even rumoured'... Then my rational brain kicks in.

 

[Gasu E.]

The thing is building cars is inherently industrial sector (huge operating costs), selling or operating online, web... services is a completely different sector. Tesla is a car company with a web enterprise financial style. The thing is once the years long bullish market comes to an end and they have to return the more expensive debt without profits, the next 3-4 years from now, we'll see.

The funny thing is that, while your choice of words is naive (leading to a great deal of picking at your nits), most of what you say is actually, fundamentally, pretty much on-target from the standpoint of business and market strategy. Tesla's brand has very little value at the moment, and they are struggling to move beyond their current tiny niche, which they need to do to survive.

BTW, while my opinion is no better than anyone else's, I'm an MBA with 30 years experience in product, market, and corporate strategy in the tech sector. (Also an MIT-trained engineer, for those of you who believe MBAs are no-nothings). I do have some actual real-world experience playing in this pen.

 

[baryon]

It makes sense, I think Tesla is a lot like the Apple of the car industry.

 

[seisend]

No, Apple is a very good and very strong brand, maybe the best. Tesla is a niche+vaporware quite unknown brand.

Apple has infinitely more money, expertise and power. If Tesla thinks they are winning at something, is because Apple wants it that way, or simply doesn't care.

Let's be realistic.

lol so many people know tesla. I know it, im swiss. my fam and friends know it, pretty much everyone i know knows it, at my work everyone knows it. even knowing knows the knows it.I even freaking own a model s. get it?


Apple wasn't always big either, you genius.

 

[62tele]

All of you who think Tesla is not known must not have seen the youtube video of "Tesla Insane Mode" with nearly 4,000,000 hits.

Maybe Tesla will always be niche but I think the iPhone was originally considered to be a possible niche product if it's true that Jobs/Apple only had a 1% market share vision.

Do any of you know Musk's strategic vision for Tesla?

 

[oliversl]

Do you want to work for a fashion company ruled by designers who know nothing about GUI or do you want to work for an engineering and tech company working on cutting edge technology?

 

[scott911]

I found it interesting- the comment that Musk is like Jobs.

So many of these comments are about the money, and differences in brand visibility.

It seems to me that old apple employees are looking to again find a working environment that was the apple under Job's reign. The new soldered-in Apple doesn't seem like that from the outside - must be even worse from the perspective of an internal employee.

 

[Vandefilm]

As all companies, Apple is going through a lifecycle. In different parts of the lifecycle different types of leaders are needed. Jobs was a typical startup type, who actually endured longer than other of the same profile in a company in the same lifecycle stage as when he passed away.

Cook is actually very well suited for the type of company and stage of lifecycle that Apple is in now. Reading a bit more about market, business and product lifecycles would make that clear, but not many people realize this.

As all management schools do nowadays you have learned their ******** (pardon my french) to. You think like:' You have to have a creative thinker to come up with a great idea, and when that idea is being marketed you then need a 'manager' to deal with the rest'. This idea is the reason that 90% of the companies don't last longer then a maximum of 20 years. That's why Apple was doomed with Skulley. Is Cook the new Skulley? I don't know, but what I do know is that Apple needs a visionair on top, because otherwise it wíll come to an end. A company has to keep up and stay innovative all the time. Also when that means you have to make some of your own products obsolete (for example, if the iPad was capable of replacing Macs, Apple should've dumped the Macs. This isn't the case, but I hope you understand the analogy). A manager would never let that happen. He thinks:' This and this is the revenue, we can't discontinue this product'. While a Jobs-person may say:' Hey, we have to take another route because that's the future'.

There is no 'lifecycle when it comes to company's, that is something managers have thought up to be sure they still have a job in so many years.

 

[mono1980]

Um... what? How are they vaporware? Unknown?

Well outside of California, you really don't see them around very much at all. They are relatively unknown if you just asked a random person on the street.

 

[peterdevries]

As all management schools do nowadays you have learned their ******** (pardon my french) to. .....
There is no 'lifecycle when it comes to company's, that is something managers have thought up to be sure they still have a job in so many years.

Hah, you clearly know nothing about me. There is nothing wrong with some healthy prejudice about standard business school knowledge. But my personal experience as strategic advisor to biotech startups and pharmaceutical companies absolutely confirms what I wrote and what business schools teach on the matter.

If you think it is some "scheme" to keep managers in their jobs, than you probably haven´t witnessed that much of these kinds of businesses from inside and need to take off your tinfoil hat.

There are very few examples of entrepreneurs able to bridge the gap from their startup to a multimillion (billion) dollar business in terms of business management.

 

[69Mustang]

The funny thing is that, while your choice of words is naive (leading to a great deal of picking at your nits), most of what you say is actually, fundamentally, pretty much on-target from the standpoint of business and market strategy. Tesla's brand has very little value at the moment, and they are struggling to move beyond their current tiny niche, which they need to do to survive.

BTW, while my opinion is no better than anyone else's, I'm an MBA with 30 years experience in product, market, and corporate strategy in the tech sector. (Also an MIT-trained engineer, for those of you who believe MBAs are no-nothings). I do have some actual real-world experience playing in this pen.

An even funnier thing is you're quoting his 2nd or 3rd shift from his original premise:
Originally Posted by nando87 View Post
No, Apple is a very good and very strong brand, maybe the best. Tesla is a niche+vaporware quite unknown brand.

Apple has infinitely more money, expertise and power. If Tesla thinks they are winning at something, is because Apple wants it that way, or simply don't care.

Let's be realistic.

Changing the narrative to better suit personal opinion, as nardo87 did, doesn't really help the discussion progress. In this thread we've all been guilty of saying "brand" as if it means only one thing while plying our arguments based on the nuances of the word. Brand recognition is not the same as brand value, which is not the same as brand perception. To make matters worse, we tie arguments based on sales, economic position, market prospects, and a whole host of other criteria back to brand. Brand value, Tesla has very little. Brand recognition and perception, I would argue both are strong for Tesla. Here's an example of an unrelated argument: In their niche, EV's (electric vehicle - not hybrids), they quickly moved to #3 behind Honda and Mitsubishi. That's not insubstantial but it's not related to brand. The topic of their business and marketing strategy is an interesting one, but shouldn't be tied to a discussion of brand. They are not the same. Related yes, but not the same.

Credentials notwithstanding, that's just my opinion.

 

[roasted]

I think it would be an awesome merger if it ever did happen. Direct integration with iPhones, possible iPad-like in dash displays, and apps for the iPhone and Apple Watch that could start your car and many other things. Really the possibilities are endless with these two brands

I want things to work. All things. Not just Apple things.

 

[Vandefilm]

Hah, you clearly know nothing about me. There is nothing wrong with some healthy prejudice about standard business school knowledge. But my personal experience as strategic advisor to biotech startups and pharmaceutical companies absolutely confirms what I wrote and what business schools teach on the matter.

If you think it is some "scheme" to keep managers in their jobs, than you probably haven´t witnessed that much of these kinds of businesses from inside and need to take off your tinfoil hat.

There are very few examples of entrepreneurs able to bridge the gap from their startup to a multimillion (billion) dollar business in terms of business management.

Of course I know nothing about you...

It's not a 'scheme', businesses do need managers when they grow. And the one business is also different from the other. But the main course has to be set always by the jobs-type leader/visionair/entrepeneur, not by the top manager.

To use a few examples from the tech-business. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates en Mark Zuckerberg.

It's way harder to find recent companies who haven't died like Sony, IBM etc. And even Apple would be dead if Jobs hadn't returned.

PS: Zullen we deze discussie trouwens verder in het Nederlands voeren?

 

[doelcm82]

I'm not sure I would want to work for either Musk or Jobs (were Jobs still alive). I don't deny the impact both of them have, but working for someone with that kind of drive can be stressful.

On the other hand, I guess I do work for people like that. My current employer is headed by someone who was on Celebrity Apprentice and now has his own TV show. I haven't met him, though.

A previous job I had was with a company whose CEO is now governor of Florida. I only met him once, though.

 

[Macist]

Tesla cars are not really all that clever, though. There's more innovative tech in BMWs and Mercs. The initial roadster was basically a Lotus with an electric motor and they couldn't even make the gearbox work.

What Tesla did though was make credible cars and put them in the marketplace. They are responsible too for placing a growing network of extremely fast charging points across the world.

The danger to the company is that if and when electric cars become mainstream enough to challenge petrol cars people will simply buy electric cars from BMW, Ford or other established brands.

However, Musk is at least an visionary. I could imagine Apple employees that felt they were once doing visionary work under Jobs now feel they are just making consumer tat only marginally different to other consumer tat.

 

[Vandefilm]

The danger to the company is that if and when electric cars become mainstream enough to challenge petrol cars people will simply buy electric cars from BMW, Ford or other established brands.

Why is that? The 'problem' for BMW, Ford and other established brands is that they know the world about petrol cars...

 

[2457282]

I like Tesla. They are the first new Car company in the USA in a long time. And their approach is radically different. I hope they succeed and that they are finally able to produce a car that I could actually afford to purchase.

I like Apple, they are a great company with great products. They are having growing pains with their software recently, but I hope they succeed and that they are finally able to produce an Apple TV that actually allows me to watch what I want without having to pay extortion fees to the cable companies.

Hopefully the two CEOs can sit together and build a partnership to leverage the great stuff each has to offer.

 

[Rogifan]

The brightest most talented employees have greater respect for and prefer to work under CEOs (like Jobs and Musk) who are strong leaders and who put performance and attention to detail above the profits first mentality so cherished by Cook. Keep chasing those numbers Cook. Top employees will walk, and customers as well.

Ah so that's why Apple is selling more product than they ever have before because customers are walking. Good to know.

 

[Glideslope]

As all companies, Apple is going through a lifecycle. In different parts of the lifecycle different types of leaders are needed. Jobs was a typical startup type, who actually endured longer than other of the same profile in a company in the same lifecycle stage as when he passed away.

Cook is actually very well suited for the type of company and stage of lifecycle that Apple is in now. Reading a bit more about market, business and product lifecycles would make that clear, but not many people realize this.

Thank you.

 

[Yvan256]

Cook is actually very well suited for the type of company and stage of lifecycle that Apple is in now. Reading a bit more about market, business and product lifecycles would make that clear, but not many people realize this.

Cook is good at managing the supply chain, always have and probably always will. But putting your leading industrial designer in charge of the user interface is a horrible decision. I've never seen so many people unhappy with their Macs since the last two OS X updates.

 

[cfedu]

Have you heard about the model X or model 3? their delays? They have also delayed their profit guidance up to 2019. They sell some tenths of thousands of niche cars, have enormous debt and operating costs, and have a market cap like they were going to sell millions. Now they've said they're delaying their mainstream vehicles another year or pair of years. By then BMW and others will have their electric range

I'm sorry but Tesla is pure hype for geeks and snobs (in the US), vaporware+bubble stock (and brand).

The Model S is a good car by the way.

And of course they're unknown, do you think the people on forums and car-tech sites represent a big percentage over the whole population?

I have to agree with most of this. Maybe if gas prices did not tank they would have had a chance. I bought brand new Camry 6 months ago and was very tempted with a hybrid version but went with the conventional version as savings would not be much. With current gas prices, i'm not sure I could ever make back the money.

 

[rcalderoni]

Um... what? How are they vaporware? Unknown?

I think he is mistaking them for the hydrogen fuel cell powered cars

 

[BigHonkingDeal]

I have to agree with most of this. Maybe if gas prices did not tank they would have had a chance. I bought brand new Camry 6 months ago and was very tempted with a hybrid version but went with the conventional version as savings would not be much. With current gas prices, i'm not sure I could ever make back the money.

I'm sure saving money is NOT the priority for most Tesla buyers... maybe saving the planet, but mostly the thrill to drive it

 

[MarkCollette]

Do you imagine someone not knowing what these emblems mean?
...

Actually, I can recognise the brand from the emblem