Apple to Analyze Recovered iPhone of Florida Teens Lost at Sea

[thewitt]

Well, that's what they said right? How they needed to do that to protect Americans from terrorists.
So what are you saying? Are they lying? If so, why do they still exist?

This is the problem of today's voters. In denial.
Meanwhile, government agencies can practically say and do anything, while using up taxpayer's money, without any accountability.

Seriously. If they recorded every cell phone call and text, what was the big FBI stink about with Apple? If the NSA already had all the information, why would they have to take Apple to court?

And where, exactly, did you read the NSA records every call and text sent?

Don't be so paranoid. They are not out to get you. No need for a tinfoil hat.

 

[pika2000]

Seriously. If they recorded every cell phone call and text, what was the big FBI stink about with Apple? If the NSA already had all the information, why would they have to take Apple to court?

And where, exactly, did you read the NSA records every call and text sent?

Don't be so paranoid. They are not out to get you. No need for a tinfoil hat.

I don't know if you are totally gullible or naive. The FBI did what they did to set precedence. Many have called out back then about why aren't they contacting the NSA instead. They did not because the content was not their objective. Their objective was to set precedence.

Like I said, voter in denial. Tin foil or not, if what Snowden said was false, then why taxpayers are still funding the said activities of the NSA? Simple. Nothing about tin foil. And this is not about me. This is about this case, to help this family.

 

[Swift]

These are all signs of a creeping invasion of privacy - and Apple is complicit, while pretending to be against it.

This is not about invading privacy. Both sides want to see if it sheds light on their sons' disappearance. It is highly likely the water took them. Might something be found on a soggy phone? The boys aren't accused of anything. The families want to know.

 

[Nevaborn]

There are some really nasty cold hearted comments in here and I would genuinely expect better.

Whatever happened to the two young men the fact is there is a grieving family who need answers and can not move on with their life until they do.

The phone may hold important communication or GEO data about where the boat had been to help track the last whereabouts of these apparent victims.

I applaud Apple for wanting to help a grieving family.

My only question is why the other family was so bent on this phone not being examined that it had too go to court. If I read it right their child is missing too. That should set alarm bells ringing.

 

[thewitt]

I don't know if you are totally gullible or naive. The FBI did what they did to set precedence. Many have called out back then about why aren't they contacting the NSA instead. They did not because the content was not their objective. Their objective was to set precedence.

Like I said, voter in denial. Tin foil or not, if what Snowden said was false, then why taxpayers are still funding the said activities of the NSA? Simple. Nothing about tin foil. And this is not about me. This is about this case, to help this family.

You give the government way too much credit

 

[Alrescha]

Sounds like the parents are the ones who should be investigated for letting 2 14 year olds go boating alone.....am I nuts? Disclaimer: I don't have any kids

Yes, I think you are nuts *

If you do not live on the coast, then this might help: When you read 'boat', think 'bicycle'. When you read that they were expected to go fishing on the Intracoastal, think 'secondary road' to the local pond. Yes, the boat was found elsewhere, but nobody knows why at this point.

A.

* I was sailing alone at 13. Where I come from, if you were not independent enough to walk a couple of blocks to the local store to buy a quart of milk for mom, you probably were not ready for kindergarten (yes, I hear the screams 'but times are different now'. It is true - statistically it is safer out there now).

 

[MH01]

Please get over yourself. The kid was a minor. His parents, as was their right, 100% agreed to allow Apple complete access to the iPhone to possibly shed light on what happened to their missing and presumed dead son. How is this a creeping invasion of privacy issue again?

You only get rights and privacy when you are no longer a minor ?

Paranoid parents would be queuing up at genius bars to get access to thier kids phones country wide cause they are worried about thier well being ....

People don't seem to understand privacy, they actually look at the circumstances around the issue and make thier decision , that is not privacy.

 

[Cascades42]

Even if they don't know the passcode wouldn't they be able to try the same trick they wanted to with the San Bernadino phone: connect it to a known wifi network, let it back up and see what's in the backup? In this case the iCloud password hasn't been changed (that we know of), so that could be another avenue.

 

[bushido]

LOL so now they're admitting that there IS a back door... just they only use it for people lost at sea, not terrorists.

Awesome ethics guys

the parents know the passcode

 

[Mums]

This is not about invading privacy. Both sides want to see if it sheds light on their sons' disappearance. It is highly likely the water took them. Might something be found on a soggy phone? The boys aren't accused of anything. The families want to know.

Wrong. The loss may be real but the story is being used for an agenda.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

That's still just a theory. Not proven.

That's still just a Hypothesis. Not a theory.

...though he's probably right.

 

[vooke]

just wondering, shouldn't the phone have been handed to the investigating authorities right away?

 

[jonnysods]

Poor parents, this is so sad.

 

[SusanK]

Sounds like the parents are the ones who should be investigated for letting 2 14 year olds go boating alone.....am I nuts? Disclaimer: I don't have any kids

I disagree. I had a boat when I was much younger than that. Today people want to put kids in a bubble until they are 30 then wonder why they cannot function on their own.

 

[sudo1996]

Now we have another test of how absolutely sacred phone privacy is.

 

[vrDrew]

I disagree. I had a boat when I was much younger than that.

One of the (perhaps) unique factors concerning recreational boating on the east coast of the United States is the presence of the Intracoastal Waterway.

For people not familiar with the Intracoastal, it is an immense system of canals, rivers, bays, and inlets that runs parallel to the coastline of the entire southeastern United States. It is possible to literally navigate from Virginia to Texas without actually going out into the open ocean itself. The water that you sail on is salt (or at least pretty brackish) - but for the most part the navigator is preserved from the rollers and rough water of the open sea.

There are definitely hazards to navigation: In parts there is heavy commercial traffic: barges, etc. The waters are also tidal, and subject to shifting bottom conditions. But for the most part its a pretty forgiving maritime environment. In most cases you are sailing at most a few hundred yards from dry land - and more often than not, considerably less. There is minimal wave action along most of its length. In fact the wake from passing vessels is usually going to be the roughest water you encounter.

I guess I would argue that the demands in skill; judgement; and general seamanship required for piloting a small craft on the Intracoastal are vastly different from those required on the open sea. You could hand the keys to a reasonably responsible teenager and let them cruise a few miles up or down the Intracoastal with relative confidence; and after a relatively short period of instruction as to general principles of boat handling and piloting. If the engine fails, or the vessel runs out of fuel, they are at worst a few yards from shore or rescue. And - as alluded to earlier - virtually all of the Intracoastal is going to have mobile phone coverage.

The open sea? Even the warm, calm waters off Florida's east coast; are a vastly different proposition. If an engine quits; if the weather or sea state turns bad; if you get lost in a fog or at night; or if a crew member falls ill - you can very quickly find oneself in mortal peril.

I don't know that these two teenagers planned on heading out onto the Atlantic ocean proper. They may have planned a trip to a favored fishing ground in one of the many bays and estuaries along the Intracoastal. But somehow or another, their craft left the Intracoastal and entered the Atlantic Ocean proper, eventually drifting as it did several hundred miles to the northeast. An environment considerably more hazardous, and far more demanding in terms of skill and equipment.

 

[gnasher729]

What's there to analyze? Thought Apple made it so they themselves can't hack in.

Wouldn't it be nice if people read the article? There is no need to hack in, because apparently the parents have the passcode. The problem is water damage. Not just water damage, but salt water damage. The kind of damage where if you took it to an Apple Store to have it fixed they would just point to the exit door.

Apple will try their very best to _repair_ the phone. Which will be a bit of a challenge by the looks of it.

Now we have another test of how absolutely sacred phone privacy is.

I think you misunderstood completely what was going on in the last few weeks. This was never about the privacy of a killer, or in this case the privacy of two boys. The FBI had a search warrant (plus the actual owner of the phone agreed to it), so Apple didn't have any problem handing over anything they knew. Apple had just a very big problem with reducing the security of all their phones.
[doublepost=1462124191][/doublepost]

Even if they don't know the passcode wouldn't they be able to try the same trick they wanted to with the San Bernadino phone: connect it to a known wifi network, let it back up and see what's in the backup? In this case the iCloud password hasn't been changed (that we know of), so that could be another avenue.

The way that phone looked, it's not going to connect to _any_ network. Until some very, very serious damage is fixed.

 

[sudo1996]

I think you misunderstood completely what was going on in the last few weeks. This was never about the privacy of a killer, or in this case the privacy of two boys. The FBI had a search warrant (plus the actual owner of the phone agreed to it), so Apple didn't have any problem handing over anything they knew. Apple had just a very big problem with reducing the security of all their phones.

I know, it's about the privacy of everyone else. You can't have it both ways. If this iPhone they found is locked with a passcode, Apple has to hack it to get in. What are they going to tell the parents if it's locked, and they don't want to break into it?

And I wouldn't really consider that reducing the security of all phones. Whatever vulnerability Apple was going to exploit must exist. Maybe you're thinking of a backdoor. I know, they claim they're afraid of the tool leaking, but it's nowhere near as dangerous as a backdoor.

 

[jimbobb24]

Sounds like the parents are the ones who should be investigated for letting 2 14 year olds go boating alone.....am I nuts? Disclaimer: I don't have any kids

Depends on the child and their capabilities. Historically and in non Western cultures 14 year olds did a range of activities we leave for adults. It does not seem strange knowing what my grandfather was doing at that age. Genetically we are not different it just depends on how the child was raised.
[doublepost=1462131367][/doublepost]

I don't know if you are totally gullible or naive. The FBI did what they did to set precedence. Many have called out back then about why aren't they contacting the NSA instead. They did not because the content was not their objective. Their objective was to set precedence.

Like I said, voter in denial. Tin foil or not, if what Snowden said was false, then why taxpayers are still funding the said activities of the NSA? Simple. Nothing about tin foil. And this is not about me. This is about this case, to help this family.

Having read more about this Apple was doing some showboating as well. Both Apple and FBI were being lame.

 

[Mystic386]

I just read the first page of comments and thought...

OMG I have no life! (Quickly exits and gets to the more important things in life)

 

[Analog Kid]

It's unclear whether the iPhone was passcode-protected when it was in working order, nor is it known what methods Apple will employ in its attempts to recover data from such a damaged device, therefore comparisons between this case and Apple's dispute with the FBI over its refusal to unlock the San Bernardino shooter's phone are premature.

That's never stopped anyone here before. Even when the details suggest that comparisons are absurd, people plow ahead anyway...
[doublepost=1462137641][/doublepost]

Yes you are... at 14, kids don't want to be accompanied by their parents and have each of their moves followed. It makes perfect sense to let two teens go alone fishing, they are capable enough to do it by themselves, and most importantly, they want to be independent at this age.

But how did 2 of them fall in the sea? I am a keen boater (as my name gives away), I worked at a major shipping company and have helped the RNLI (British Lifeboats). Its hard to see how both of them disappeared, also how were they so far out?

Still, it's important to remember these kids were 14 when trying to decide what actions would make sense for them to take. An experienced freighter captain, for example, shouldn't assume that a couple of kids would make the same decisions he would.
[doublepost=1462138250][/doublepost]

Why isn't the NSA helping? Regardless of the device, the NSA should be the one asked first for whatever they have recorded.

Pretty sure the NSA is barred from looking at domestic cases...

 

[Analog Kid]

The don't think the dead care about privacy.

Well, the main point here is that they haven't been declared dead, but also I believe the right to privacy doesn't extend to the dead.

 

[Taipan]

Saltwater plus modern technology plus several weeks = it will be a miracle if anything is learned. The box was locked, but was it water sealed?

Apparently not, judging by the photos and article. Unless they also put water into the box...

 

[Keebler]

These are all signs of a creeping invasion of privacy - and Apple is complicit, while pretending to be against it.

Well everyone is entitle to their opinion, but I offer this angle:

As a parent, I would wonder what happened to my boy out there. I would be devastated to say the least, but maybe....just maybe the boys left a photo or video saying goodbye. Or tried typing a text or email. Anything Apple can find from that point of view might help ease the loss for the parents. I know the boys haven't been officially claimed as dead, but out in that area, it would be hard for them to survive.

Stranger things have happened though.

So from that angle, I say Apple should go full force to help anyone out.

 

[koa]

So this is not mentioned in the MR article, but the boat was originally found a couple of days after they went missing, and then the coast guard "lost it" and it went missing again, AND THEN turned up in Bermuda a year later. The teens did not go anywhere near Bermuda.

One of the (perhaps) unique factors concerning recreational boating on the east coast of the United States is the presence of the Intracoastal Waterway.

For people not familiar with the Intracoastal, it is an immense system of canals, rivers, bays, and inlets that runs parallel to the coastline of the entire southeastern United States. It is possible to literally navigate from Virginia to Texas without actually going out into the open ocean itself. The water that you sail on is salt (or at least pretty brackish) - but for the most part the navigator is preserved from the rollers and rough water of the open sea.

There are definitely hazards to navigation: In parts there is heavy commercial traffic: barges, etc. The waters are also tidal, and subject to shifting bottom conditions. But for the most part its a pretty forgiving maritime environment. In most cases you are sailing at most a few hundred yards from dry land - and more often than not, considerably less. There is minimal wave action along most of its length. In fact the wake from passing vessels is usually going to be the roughest water you encounter.

I guess I would argue that the demands in skill; judgement; and general seamanship required for piloting a small craft on the Intracoastal are vastly different from those required on the open sea. You could hand the keys to a reasonably responsible teenager and let them cruise a few miles up or down the Intracoastal with relative confidence; and after a relatively short period of instruction as to general principles of boat handling and piloting. If the engine fails, or the vessel runs out of fuel, they are at worst a few yards from shore or rescue. And - as alluded to earlier - virtually all of the Intracoastal is going to have mobile phone coverage.

The open sea? Even the warm, calm waters off Florida's east coast; are a vastly different proposition. If an engine quits; if the weather or sea state turns bad; if you get lost in a fog or at night; or if a crew member falls ill - you can very quickly find oneself in mortal peril.

I don't know that these two teenagers planned on heading out onto the Atlantic ocean proper. They may have planned a trip to a favored fishing ground in one of the many bays and estuaries along the Intracoastal. But somehow or another, their craft left the Intracoastal and entered the Atlantic Ocean proper, eventually drifting as it did several hundred miles to the northeast. An environment considerably more hazardous, and far more demanding in terms of skill and equipment.

These two posts are the most accurate concerning the boat and ability of the boys.

I had followed this story back when it was happening.

Being a commercial fisherman from the late sixties diving off of small Boston Whalers in open ocean conditions with many decades doing it alone it is so easy to understand how a series of events could quickly overwhelm the boys and they could both have ended up in the ocean. They had minimal safety gear to begin with so might not even had on those cheap life jackets when they went overboard. Once in the ocean in storm conditions they would have realively a short time to survive.

The boys were not even experienced enough to have the proper safety gear on board before heading out into the Atlantic with a storm approaching and I'm sure the parents regret not equipping the boat properly especially since one of them owned a marine supply business.

This was preventable and will be used in boating safety courses as a lesson which will hopefully save some future lives until the inevitable next time.