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mtneer

macrumors 68040
Sep 15, 2012
3,179
2,714
I am wondering how they would count so-called "incidents". Computers are complex machines, and while one incident may be solved, another one may appear and still be linked to the first one.

Maybe that's the reason why they have the "Request an Exception" button. If you feel that you need to return to chat support leading in from a previous paid session, you click that exception button, and if Apple agrees, you don't get to pay for a second session?
 

iDuel

macrumors 6502a
Jul 20, 2011
775
97
Greece/USA
It's sad to see that this is happening, as we do pay a lot for Apple's products. Fortunately, most issues can be solved by asking here on MacRumors, or using Bing/Google/etc.
 

Cubytus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2007
1,436
18
And I used to say to doubters you pay Apple's product a bit more because of their good service, including out-of-warranty one… Not the case anymore.
 

RedCroissant

Suspended
Aug 13, 2011
2,268
96
And I used to say to doubters you pay Apple's product a bit more because of their good service, including out-of-warranty one… Not the case anymore.

I would still say that. Saying that a company has good/great service shouldn't only be due to the fact that the service they provide is free.

If that were the case, then there would never be a need or requirement to purchase Apple Care. Even though the products cost more and still come with a premium for support, I think it's worth the money.

After all, I bought my first iMac in 2009 and also bought Apple Care for it. Before Apple Care expired, the HDD failed and Apple sent a tech to my home where they replaced the HDD there. It was totally worth the money spent to get that level of service.
 

Cubytus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2007
1,436
18
I would still say that. Saying that a company has good/great service shouldn't only be due to the fact that the service they provide is free.

If that were the case, then there would never be a need or requirement to purchase Apple Care. Even though the products cost more and still come with a premium for support, I think it's worth the money.

After all, I bought my first iMac in 2009 and also bought Apple Care for it. Before Apple Care expired, the HDD failed and Apple sent a tech to my home where they replaced the HDD there. It was totally worth the money spent to get that level of service.
It was implied that the advice they gave was free, along with any service related to software. I solved the slight discomfort of a Genius once as I came with a malfunctioning iMac (white poly generation) offering to reinstall everything myself given a power outlet and a network cable, which he gladly accepted.

I do talk about Apple Care mainly as a hardware warranty. If even a very small part of a motherboard fails (for example, an audio jack, or power connector), Apple used to replace the whole block, a $900 repair, making the simple equation 1 repair after one year = 3 times the price on an Apple Care, plus added resale value as it's the only warranty I know that's actually transferable. That's really good you could have a tech at home. Usually they simply require that you go to whatever certified Apple repair shop you have in your area.

Of course it includes phone support, but that's not what people think about in the first place. That still compares very favorably to Microsoft's service as I found it would be necessary to have them solve an extremely frequent problem of installing Office 365 where it almost invariably fails, or burn one license uselessly. But Microsoft doesn't have any phone number to call, or even a support page for that matter.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
Wow. Some people will stick up for Apple no matter what they do.

Nah, I haven't bought their warranties in years. Mostly because they are too short and rarely cover the cost of fixing the device (which I found out after picking up one of their botched stock of 1st gen MBAs when they first came out).

However, I have no expectation of them to give me service when I haven't paid for it. Hobbyists on various forums (and the like) tend to give better advice than tech support anyways.
 

Ihatefall

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2010
156
29
Ahhh. Not paying $19 to talk to some front-line girl with a 3 ring binder filled with canned troubleshooting lines. Whenever I utilize my $200+ AppleCare I have to talk to 3 people before I get someone on the phone who doesn't ask me if I've updated my software or rebooted recently. I only buy AppleCare for the hardware protection. I hate when I feel like I know more about the product than the customer service rep does. Infuriating.

THIS.TIMES.ONE.THOUSAND.


This is why whenever I call some rep I say, "this is the problem I am having, this is what I am using it for and this is what I have done so far to try and fix it..." before we get to far into it. Granted, I have never used apple tech support and have only been to the Genius Bar a couple times. Usually when I need an iPhone replacement which I have had to have 3 of. I would have never paid for this anyway, but I do feel bad for people like my mom who would need this.
It seems very un-apple like.

At least OSX updates are free now.
 

unplugme71

macrumors 68030
May 20, 2011
2,827
754
Earth
$19 is much better than the $49 HP wants to charge for a chat service.

However, Apple should also offer a monthly plan - lets say $39 that gives you unlimited support for up to 25 Apple Devices (ATV, iDevices, Macs, etc) that you or your immediate family owns.

There are some months where a lot happens and paying $19 per incident would be very expensive. At that point, I would just take it to the Apple store.

Also, if a repair is to be requested, I think the chat fee should be applied towards the purchase of the repair cost. Similar to how the Apple store is - you get 15 min of free diagnostic and then given a repair quote.
 

PinkyMacGodess

Suspended
Mar 7, 2007
10,271
6,226
Midwest America.
It's been nice to know that people can still get some 'free' support for Apple products that are past their warranty. It's the one thing that has separated them from their competitors. I've gotten some limited help (MUCH appreciated) with OOW stuff in the past.

Could it really be that big of a drain?
 

numlock

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2006
1,590
88
Nah, I haven't bought their warranties in years. Mostly because they are too short and rarely cover the cost of fixing the device (which I found out after picking up one of their botched stock of 1st gen MBAs when they first came out).

However, I have no expectation of them to give me service when I haven't paid for it. Hobbyists on various forums (and the like) tend to give better advice than tech support anyways.

maybe they should first hire some knowledgable people that can actually help people and then think about charging.

i talked to two real morons recently who had no idea about anything with regards to iphones.

how long until they start charging for use of the devices in their stores or access to the wifi?

its a move of a company that doubts it can get new customers so lets and squeeze every last cent out of the ones that already bought
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
maybe they should first hire some knowledgable people that can actually help people and then think about charging.

Presumably most people with actual technology/computer skills prefer to have more interesting and gratifying jobs than dealing with people who can't figure out how to connect their printer to their Macs.

Edit: Furthermore, I'd imagine that most phone/text-based customer support has a high turnover rate due to the constant abuse people in these jobs tend to get (i.e., a lot of <1 month newbies).
 

numlock

macrumors 68000
Mar 13, 2006
1,590
88
Presumably most people with actual technology/computer skills prefer to have more interesting and gratifying jobs than dealing with people who can't figure out how to connect their printer to their Macs.

Edit: Furthermore, I'd imagine that most phone/text-based customer support has a high turnover rate due to the constant abuse people in these jobs tend to get (i.e., a lot of <1 month newbies).

could very well be true on both points. that however does not excuse apple for not giving their staff enough info to do their job. if apple actually suffers from that then i would say even less reason to charge for that service or non service.

a lady i spoke to actually checked with her supervisor and he knew just as little as she did.

i do though try to be as patient and polite with the support people as they never the ones to blame but sadly they get most of the abuse.
 

Cubytus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2007
1,436
18
Nah, I haven't bought their warranties in years. Mostly because they are too short and rarely cover the cost of fixing the device (which I found out after picking up one of their botched stock of 1st gen MBAs when they first came out).
Are we talking about the same Apple Care warranty that covers any defect not related to negligence? I admit that 3 years is a bit short considering the price of some items (and it's only 2 years on iPhones, scandalous considering their markup), but the whole machine is covered, part and fixing itself. What it doesn't cover is loss of productivity due to their software incompatibilities (Learnt that when they pushed Lion on me without a chance to try it first in my environment).

This is why whenever I call some rep I say, "this is the problem I am having, this is what I am using it for and this is what I have done so far to try and fix it..." before we get to far into it. Granted, I have never used apple tech support and have only been to the Genius Bar a couple times. Usually when I need an iPhone replacement which I have had to have 3 of. I would have never paid for this anyway, but I do feel bad for people like my mom who would need this.
It seems very un-apple like.
Typical phone techs are taught never to assume the customer knows what he does. From wandering on this forum, you probably have a technical knowledge level above the majority of users. The only way tech representatives can make sure operations have been properly performed is to have you repeat them. So much people think they know, and in fact know absolutely nothing. Before starting a "computer care" workshop along with a friend of mine, we never thought the overall computer literacy was so low.

At least OSX updates are free now.
I hope, considering how it has all been on a downward slope since Snow Leopard.

However, Apple should also offer a monthly plan - lets say $39 that gives you unlimited support for up to 25 Apple Devices (ATV, iDevices, Macs, etc) that you or your immediate family owns.

There are some months where a lot happens and paying $19 per incident would be very expensive. At that point, I would just take it to the Apple store.

Also, if a repair is to be requested, I think the chat fee should be applied towards the purchase of the repair cost. Similar to how the Apple store is - you get 15 min of free diagnostic and then given a repair quote.
$39 a month is still much too expensive. Apple devices are supposed to have above-average reliability, and I wouldn't pay another monthly subscription for just 3 Apple-branded devices. That could change if any would be covered, regardless of age, making it effectively a lifetime warranty.

its a move of a company that doubts it can get new customers so lets and squeeze every last cent out of the ones that already bought
Well this is nothing new. Perhaps they started notice at Apple that they haven't concentrated enough on making the software robust enough for professionals and individuals alike. They cut many features that made OS X so comfortable and efficient to use, and are pushing new versions before properly testing them. Snow Leopard was the last one to explicitly build upon "refining" the existing Leopard: no new features, just solid enhancements.

I bet "release few, release often" actually repulsed many users. Wanting to make everything simpler sometimes doesn't cut it: I don't count how many times I've read people experiencing slowness after upgrading to Mavericks that simply disappeared when they did a clean install.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
could very well be true on both points. that however does not excuse apple for not giving their staff enough info to do their job. if apple actually suffers from that then i would say even less reason to charge for that service or non service.

Of course not, but it does reduce the demand for staff which is probably what they are looking to do. Less continually training inexperienced staff and more time for individual customers sounds like a win-win for any call center.

This is all assuming that what I say is valid, I haven't worked at a call center and I have no idea what Apple's numbers are (% on warranty, % out of warranty, % "bought this G3 iMac at a garage said and I don't know how to install Windows").

a lady i spoke to actually checked with her supervisor and he knew just as little as she did.

I'm amazed at how common this is (with the few call centers I have called). It seems more like they have experience with management than with anything else. It kind of reminds me of retail managers that aren't really very good at cashiering or bagging. There are probably good supervisors out there, but I don't think anybody on the internet has found them yet.

i do though try to be as patient and polite with the support people as they never the ones to blame but sadly they get most of the abuse.

A few years ago I had called to sign up for new Internet service at an apartment I just moved into. They, of course, needed my address. And when I gave it, the person on the other end told me that "[apartment 402] wasn't in the system" and subsequently asked "Are you sure you don't live in [apartment 105]?" to which I replied "I was pretty sure it was [402], I can see over a bit too many rooftops to live in [105]". I was almost disappointed that they didn't get it.

tl;dr it is amazingly hard sometimes.
 

Parasprite

macrumors 68000
Mar 5, 2013
1,698
144
Are we talking about the same Apple Care warranty that covers any defect not related to negligence? I admit that 3 years is a bit short considering the price of some items (and it's only 2 years on iPhones, scandalous considering their markup), but the whole machine is covered, part and fixing itself. What it doesn't cover is loss of productivity due to their software incompatibilities (Learnt that when they pushed Lion on me without a chance to try it first in my environment).

Assuming you can convince them it was a hardware defect, but I'll leave that to another forum.
 

cmwade77

macrumors 65816
Nov 18, 2008
1,071
1,200
Huh? First off, for the extended warranty, you are much better off buy a Square Trade warranty. It's less expensive and covers accidental damage.

Secondly, why would anyone expect free tech support (chat or otherwise) after the warranty has expired?

That being said, I think computers should come with a minimum of a 3 year warranty against defects.
 

Cubytus

macrumors 65816
Mar 2, 2007
1,436
18
Assuming you can convince them it was a hardware defect, but I'll leave that to another forum.
In the past one didn't have to convince them. If the water damage dot wasn't activated and there was no obvious damage, then it was automatically deemed to be a hardware defect. Recently I had an iPad replaced when it suddenly displayed a screen in two tones of grey, despite scratches.

Huh? First off, for the extended warranty, you are much better off buy a Square Trade warranty. It's less expensive and covers accidental damage.
Is it international?
Secondly, why would anyone expect free tech support (chat or otherwise) after the warranty has expired?
Because Apple got us used to it. I'm not advocating free parts replacement, but at least have a look at the machine, even if it's old.

That being said, I think computers should come with a minimum of a 3 year warranty against defects.
Totally agreed.

By law if necessary. And it's not impossible to achieve at all, Norway (as usual the most advanced country when it comes to citizen rights) has a mandatory 5-year warranty on electronics, probably designed to curb sneaky, programmed obsolescence practices.
 

occollegeboi420

macrumors regular
Mar 2, 2013
180
0
I don't even know why they charge for oow phone support when you can just walk into an apple store and talk to someone for FREE about whatever problem you're having. So because some people don't have the luxury of living near an apple store, they have to pay?? That's a load of bs.
 
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