Are Unlocked iPhones Getting Bricked? At Least Some.

[etaylor3971]

ibrick

Today, I stupidly upgraded my unlocked phone (well it was unlocked at one time, but after a restore, the unlock no longer worked) and I got the wrong sim error.

I took the phone to the local Apple store and the Genius bar folks looked in their system and sure enough, because the IMEI number didn't match it told the Genius that it was an unlocked phone. The bottom line he said was that it was not something they would fix.

He did say that hopefully someone will figure out how to unbrick it (he prefaced that statement with "Apple doesn't want me to say this, but...").

So I bought a new phone, moved the old sim over, activated it via iTunes and then upgraded to 1.1.1, restored the settings from my old phone, synced my music, addresses, etc and $429 later, I'm back in action.

A very expensive lesson. But I will hold onto the old phone and hope someone figures out a solution. Then I'll probably sell it on ebay.

Best of luck everyone --

Eric/San Diego

 

[biggerbearbrian]

Sorry US Law states that you have the right, if you so desire to unlock your phone. It also allows you to ignore all other rules set forth by manufactorers. However it does not state that you are excepted from a contractual agreement. Take it to court, the phone was a brick when you purchased it, only way to enable in compliance with the agreement was to use itunes and signup for 2 year contract with at&t. If you broke the rules and later ignored the warnings, well you got a brick.

I am building a brick wall outback, im paying $0.10 for each brick.

You have the right to be foolish so long as you make your bed and lay on it.

I haven't disagreed with you in anything I've said. Legally an iPhone owner has the right to unlock their phone. Exercising that right may, and probably will, brick their phone if they ignore all warnings, and update.

 

[Tazthecat]

Well, this is my last response to you. It is legal to unlock, Apple and ATT can fight it, but its legal now. I wonder why you want so much lockdown, its kind of weird. You're argument's too shall pass...

I don't think Dave ever said it was illegal. He is saying that people that are unlocking the iPhone are doing so against the terms of service. Also these actions void the warranty. Here is an excerpt from the warranty (with portions bolded by me)

"Apple does not warrant that the operation of the product will be uninterrupted or error-free. Apple is not responsible for damage arising from failure to follow instructions relating to the product’s use.

This warranty does not apply: (a) to damage caused by use with non-Apple products; (b) to damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire,
earthquake or other external causes; (c) to damage caused by operating the product outside the permitted or intended uses described by Apple; (d) to damage caused by service (including upgrades and expansions) performed by anyone who is not a representative of Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider (“AASP”); (e) to a product or part that has been modified to alter functionality or capability without the written permission of Apple; (f) to consumable parts, such as batteries, unless damage has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship; (g) to cosmetic damage, including but not limited to scratches, dents and broken plastic on ports; or (h) if any Apple serial number has been removed or defaced. "

So if someone modified the phone, it might be legal (in terms of criminality) but it is against the terms of the warranty and Apple does not have an obligation to repair any hacked iPhones bricked by the update.

As far as the iPhone being tied to AT&T, they wanted a carrier that they could partner with and was willing to make infrastructure changes to provide functionality (meaning the carrier would invest money in their network for functions Apple wanted). AT&T was willing to make those investments and also share in revenue so they wanted an exclusive agreement. This was a business decision. In a perfect world, we would get everything we want (unlocked, hackable iPhone) but Apple needed to do what it had to do to get the iPhone released.

-ron-

 

[Analog Kid]

Only thing is: Apple's lawyers have little jurisdiction outside the U.S., and especially not in countries where its practices are not legal.

That's ok, this isn't about law anyway...

How can a device by "bricked" by a software modification? One way or another I believe that any of the errors on the unlocked phones will be easily fixable, it's a pure software problem that can be resolved.

It's just a software issue, which will be fixed. As I said it's impossible to "brick" a device with a software hack alone.

It's very easy to brick a hardware device by software update, if for no other reason than software is what performs the update itself. Muck that up and you're hosed. Same if you lose critical information-- suggestions are that it's the IMEI getting hosed (the phone ID) that is the root of the problem here. Another would be putting the device into an endless loop at boot.

No, there are very many ways of bricking a device by software.

It is your phone, you paid for it and you can do whatever you want with it. Stop shilling.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again-- it's your car, you paid for it, and you can fill the tank with sugar if you want to...

As far as my own feelings on the matter (not that your comments were addressed to me), I actually like the ingenuity I see in all the hacking of the iPhone. There's a certain electricity when you see people so jazzed about a device that they want to reach in and control every part of it. I think it's cool that one of the original unlock programs came from a kid-- I think the desire to be a part of this pushed him to learn more. I'm also sympathetic to hacking as a way of protesting Apple's decisions.

What drives me absolutely crazy though is people charging over and over that Apple did something to them when their experiments go off the rails. Apple can not be expected to anticipate what you're going to do to your personal device, nor can they be expected to bend over backwards to accommodate it. Other vendors can allow custom modifications because they give an application space for those devs to work within. Apple hasn't, and therefore there's no safe zone for you to muck with things.

You are welcome to do what you wish with your phone, but you can't expect Apple to protect you from yourself.

Well, this is my last response to you. It is legal to unlock, Apple and ATT can fight it, but its legal now. I wonder why you want so much lockdown, its kind of weird. You're argument's too shall pass...

Again with the legality! Maybe this is the root of the argument here... I for one, believe it is perfectly legal for you to unlock your phone, and it sounded to me like Dave's thinking was the same. My beef, and I suspect his, is people arguing that Apple needs to coddle people who make unpredictable changes to an amazingly complex device despite Apple trying very hard to discourage that and then follow that up by updating the device after Apple tried very hard to warn pregnant women and those with heart, back and neck problems not to do so.

Thank you. I am young at heart! I'm probably older than you are so there's no need to be patronising.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound patronizing. Always dangerous to guess about those you can neither see nor hear...

 

[andleg]

Save your Money ?

A resume :
If you don't want to use locked phones : don't buy iPhone
If you don't want to use ATT network : don't buy iPhone
If you live outside US : don't buy iPhone

If you have to invest don't buy Apple shares because Apple is forgetting 95% of mobile phone market share.

Nice move Steve ??

 

[andleg]

One more detail

If you develop mobile phone software, dont' develop for iPhone.
(it can be deactivated at next update).

In my case I was planning to buy one iPhone and to develop application for it but now I will, probably wait for google phone or some other competitor

 

[coleridge78]

It's just a software issue, which will be fixed. As I said it's impossible to "brick" a device with a software hack alone.

Utter nonsense. For the most obvious example, think of hacking the power management kernel extensions such that the fan in your laptop never kicks in and the processor melts.

Or, more apropos, modifying firmware that you don't really understand such that you destroy the part of it that is responsible for managing proper firmware updates... at best, it would take opening the device and flashing chips back to a known factory state to recover. At worst, there may be underlying damage that prevents even that.

In short, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[shadowfax]

Utter nonsense. For the most obvious example, think of hacking the power management kernel extensions such that the fan in your laptop never kicks in and the processor melts.

Or, more apropos, modifying firmware that you don't really understand such that you destroy the part of it that is responsible for managing proper firmware updates... at best, it would take opening the device and flashing chips back to a known factory state to recover. At worst, there may be underlying damage that prevents even that.

In short, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Heh, the easiest, most repeatable way to brick a device with only software is usually to flash the firmware and cut power to it in the middle of the update.

 

[ajhill]

Not gonna happen...

If you develop mobile phone software, dont' develop for iPhone.
(it can be deactivated at next update).

In my case I was planning to buy one iPhone and to develop application for it but now I will, probably wait for google phone or some other competitor

You're going to be waiting a long time. In case you hadn't noticed, the iPhone IS the Google phone. Google is all over the iPhone, Google search, Google maps. Not to mention that Googles CEO is on Apple's board of directors!!!

The iPhone IS the Google phone, end of story.

 

[Fwink!]

It is your phone, you paid for it and you can do whatever you want with it. Stop shilling.

You CAN do whatever you want with your iPhone, the physical shell and the innards, You can paint it green and wear it like a hat if you'd like.

But the software that makes it work, is Apple property that you are licensed to use. And Apple has said, if you mess with it, it'll break. Simple enough.


As far as unlocking it goes. You have a legal right to get it unlocked - if you are able to do so. But Apple has no responsibility to facilitate that. You're on your own there.

Basically, Apple has the resources to block any and all hacking efforts, and they have a right to do so.

No matter how convoluted the software becomes, making it harder and harder to hack, theoretically it could still be unlocked, and that's all you have a right to expect.

Part of this is the intention of the law. The loophole in the DMCA is not meant to facilitate hacking of proprietary code. It's meant to "theoretically" make obsolete, or incompatible phones useful in emergency situations.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[totoum]

Fine,let me see if i understand the situation,it is perfectly legal for you to unlock your phone,some people have even said they wanted to sue apple because they think what apple is doing (releasing an update that breaks your unlocked phone) is illegal,that to me has little to do with the subject,even if you think that what apple is doing is illegal,they didn't force people to download the update and they even warned people with unlocked phones that it could damage them.
I understand people who say this:"I see a warning saying that if i download this update it will probably break my phone,I think what apple is doing is wrong,i'm not not going to download it."
I understand people who say this:"I see a warning saying that if i download this update it will probably break my phone,I think what apple is doing is wrong,but i'm going to download it anyway,even though no one is forcing me too (user downloads the update and sees that the phone is broken)....That sucks,oh well,I still think what apple is doing is wrong, but hey,no one forced me to,i took a chance and it didn't work out,should have known better than to ignore a warning"

However,I don't understand people who say "I see a warning saying that if i download this update it will probably break my phone,I think what apple is doing is wrong,but i'm going to download it anyway,even though no one is forcing me too (user downloads the update and sees that the phone is broken)....That suck,it's all apple's fault,i'm going to the macrumors forums to complain"

 

[Joedy]

If you don't like Apple's policies, then don't buy the iPhone! Plain and simple!

That has been my official "voice" in the matter.

If Apple wants me to purchase an iPhone, it will be only when they sell the devices in a fully unlocked state with the option to use the device without the phone or to use the device with the wireless carrier of my choice.

Money. This is the sole language that Apple speaks and until then, they won't earn my sale.

-joedy

 

[ascender]

Am I missing something here?

It was common knowledge that the new update would probably do something to unlocked phones, so why are people applying it in the first place?

Also, why are Apple being slammed for providing locked phones in the first place when its common place in the mobile market and given the support they provide to the device after purchase, I'd have thought it would make even more sense?

And finally, since day one, everyone has known the risks to unlocking an iPhone, so what did people expect?

This post isn't meant to be a preachy, told-you-so or holier than thou sort of thing, but I just don't understand how this thread has come around given the above, let alone the direction its going in now.

 

[footandmaff]

I don't know why people even bother making any comments on here about the iPhone as it boils down to the same argument over and over again.

a) "I bought an iPhone I should be able to do what I like with it!!"
b) "Read the agreement, don't moan because it doesn't work when you try and buck the system!!"

I understand that there are differences in opinion over whether you should be able to unlock the iPhone or not but can we please stop going over the same tired argument it's really getting very old very fast!

 

[devilot]

Please stay ON TOPIC and leave the personal insults out of this. Thanks.

 

[trashie]

So..The whole story is..
-IPhones priced 600$ as a "gift" for the most utterly Apple fans who would buy them immediatly.The ones who would/could pay 600$ for a phone, did it.

-Once those fans were "happy", Apple cuts down the price to 400$..to reach more wallets.Oh, also begins appearing a few ways to unlock those 400$ iphones...

I wonder how many iPhones have been sold with the 400$+unlock possibility combo,specially for use outside the US...Begin counting..4 in my office (Spain).

-For sure, this cannot be allowed for much time, as Apple gets profit if people stick with AT&T...so, after selling a few thousands iphones more,for people all around the world...They brick'em.

Does it end here?No!They still are able to make their "good" users like good citizens, as opposed to those other pesky hackers!!
And, in the end, i agree with the "good citizens" and "the hackers" at the same time.You can do what you want with your iPhone, *as you bought it*.You can unlock it.You can upgrade it.Oh.Upgrading bricks it!!.Oh, well, you did what you wanted, isn't it?Not knowing the consecuences doesnt change that fact.It's so simple...choose:your iPhone as-is, or the upgrade...
Oh, maybe what happens is that without upgrading, you cant use any more certain "services" outside your iPhone..Well, those services aren't yours, are they?Their owners can change it..

So, i agree with the two points of view.What makes me curious, as not-an-apple-fan, is how is possible to play with your fans, make them spend their money (repeatedly), and, still,their feeling is "i'm a good citizen".Wow.Really, Apple is abusing you.
At least,Gates is soo polite that will refuse to upgrade your Windows if it's not original.Wont brick your PC.
Sure,sure, Apple "couldnt do the same due to technical issues..."..of course...
But , well, they at least are making people buy a SECOND iPhone! Wow! I don't think Steve had imagined THAT!

And,oh, as the software,as some people say, is "licensed", better hope that their next "update" dont require, say, a subscription to iWalletSucker to run your "just-licensed-not-owned" OS.You have a device that depends on external services to work properly.Just hope they dont change those services to keep playing and abusing owners.

Just *too* much for inertial menus and multitouchs..

 

[AVR2]

Money. This is the sole language that Apple speaks and until then, they won't earn my sale

Fine. Somehow, I think they'll manage to soldier on without your sale

What I do find strange - apart from all those whining that applying a software update they were told not to apply has bricked their hacked iPhones - is the inability of many people to grasp that the reason for the lock is to make the iPhone affordable in the first place.

AT&T is subsidising the cost of the iPhone so that you can buy it at $399 rather than $699 or $799 (or maybe more). That's how these exclusivity contracts work, and it's how they've been working in the mobile phone market for well over a decade now.

Now, Joedy might be willing to pay $799 for an official unlocked iPhone, but Joedy will be very much in the minority, and Apple wants the iPhone to become a mass-market product in the same way that the iPod has. So it goes for the approach that is most likely to allow this to happen - using an exclusive contract with a carrier, which allows them to subsidise the price of the handsets.

Surely none of this is new to anyone? It certainly seems like it, though...

 

[sananda]

AT&T is subsidising the cost of the iPhone so that you can buy it at $399 rather than $699 or $799 (or maybe more)

what is your source for this information? or are you assuming?

 

[ncbill]

That does not constitute a valid contract between the purchaser and AT&T.

Neither Apple nor AT&T have any legal recourse against a consumer who purchases an iPhone and unlocks it to work on T-Mobile or on another GSM provider.

Please go to the Apple web site and take a look at the requirements. Its all there for you to see. Try here first:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/questionsandanswers.html

At the bottom right of the page it says:

Can I “unlock” iPhone and use it with another wireless carrier?
AT&T is the exclusive wireless carrier for iPhone in the United States. If you currently use another wireless carrier, you can choose to transfer your number when you activate your AT&T account.

I don't think they could make it more clear.

The iPhone is a great product. If the features appeal to you and your willing to abide by the agreements and conditions, you will love it.

If not, buy a Nokia or some other brand that gives your what ever features you want that the iPhone does not.

Dave

 

[trauma62]

Fixes security Safari issues

Some people might think that the upgrade is only a cosmetic one, but it is not. It also addresses severe security issues on the Safari browser and mail application. So , if you think you can survive w/o the iTunes Wi-Fi store think again, there is a lot more to it than just business .

 

[foodog]

I take issue with your assertions in this and another string concerning, particularly, iPhone unlocking. Unlocking is exempted from The DMCA. So, even though Apple doesn't like it, or condone it, it is still withing the realm of legality to unlock cell phones across the board. To quote the US Copyright office.

"The underlying activity sought to be performed by the owner of the handset is to allow the handset to do what it was manufactured to do—lawfully connect to any carrier," ... "This is a noninfringing activity by the user... The purpose of the software lock appears to be limited to restricting the owner’s use of the mobile handset to support a business model, rather than to protect access to a copyrighted work itself."

I think it can be debated that Apple dangled the bait out there by not forcing buyers to get a plan PRIOR to buying the iPhone. While hacks, and 3rd party Apps may be a much darker shade of grey; unlocking the phone is not illegal. While it surely breaks the warantee, that really is the iPhone owner's choice, as the individual buyer does in fact own the phone.

Just because unlocking is legal it doesn't mean Apple has to support it. You should not have bought it if you didn't like the terms they set forth.

Hack the phone if you want. When it turns into a brick don't cry about it.

That does not constitute a valid contract between the purchaser and AT&T.

Neither Apple nor AT&T have any legal recourse against a consumer who purchases an iPhone and unlocks it to work on T-Mobile or on another GSM provider.

They don't need a legal recourse. You unlock the phone you void the warranty. Pretty simple concept. If you can't or don't want to use AT&T DON'T BUY THE PHONE!

 

[KaiMac]

A lot of you disgruntled hackers act like Apple is the only phone hardware provider who "locks" their phones. This happens with any phone you buy at any store. Only difference is the iPhone runs a true OS, which allows Apple to enhance the feature of the phone over time. Quit crying about your bricked iPhone and switch to AT&T or go back to running around town with your "Razor" or "Sidekick" like everyone else out there. This is a non issue to Apple, they could care less and they will do this to you with every update. I think its great.

Kai

Today, I stupidly upgraded my unlocked phone (well it was unlocked at one time, but after a restore, the unlock no longer worked) and I got the wrong sim error.

I took the phone to the local Apple store and the Genius bar folks looked in their system and sure enough, because the IMEI number didn't match it told the Genius that it was an unlocked phone. The bottom line he said was that it was not something they would fix.

He did say that hopefully someone will figure out how to unbrick it (he prefaced that statement with "Apple doesn't want me to say this, but...").

So I bought a new phone, moved the old sim over, activated it via iTunes and then upgraded to 1.1.1, restored the settings from my old phone, synced my music, addresses, etc and $429 later, I'm back in action.

A very expensive lesson. But I will hold onto the old phone and hope someone figures out a solution. Then I'll probably sell it on ebay.

Best of luck everyone --

Eric/San Diego

If every hacker out there goes and buys a new phone to fix their bricked one, then Apple has come up with a great way to sell more phones! I guess they'll see you at the store with every software/firmware update! As a shareholder, I love you.

 

[Breesha]

Just so everyone knows, I have never altered or modded my phone in any way, shape, or form, and the update bricked my phone last night. It took me approximately 12 attempts for uninstalling, re-installing, restoring, etc. I eventually had to resort to a different computer to restore, and even then, it took me at least 4 tries.

I got it to restore, but of course, lost everything I had, which REALLY burns me, but whatever.

At least now it's not a $500 paperweight.

 

[Unspeaked]

You're going to be waiting a long time. In case you hadn't noticed, the iPhone IS the Google phone. Google is all over the iPhone, Google search, Google maps. Not to mention that Googles CEO is on Apple's board of directors!!!

The iPhone IS the Google phone, end of story.

Uh, sure - you keep thinking that.

Of course, you'll have to ignore that the Wall Street Journal and BBC News have reported a prototype model.

And that reports have been made that Google has already partnered with Linux firm OpenMoko to develop the operated system.

And that Google's filed a patent for GPay, a SMS based payment system for use on their platform.

Or this:

Google Admits to Plans for Phone

Frankly, the way Apple's been acting with the iPhone, I hope Google's phone materializes soon and become a catagory killer - the iPod of phones. As is clearly evident from these forums, the iPhone itself a very far from that now...

 

[TitoC]

Innovation

It seems that there is a lot of "rabble-rousing" going on in this forum. There are those who say "Leave the iPhone and its software alone - don't hack it!" And there are those who like having their phones being open and being able to add what they want.

Outside of the Unlocking aspect (i.e. SIM switching) which is a little bit of a different subject, I would like to discuss only the "Modding" aspect of the iPhone (i.e. 3rd party applications).

For those of you who say that these "hacks" are taking up too much of Apple's valuable time and research out of developing real fixes and apps for the iPhone by dedicating their time to circumventing the ability of these "hacks" to get into the iPhone, I say "Bull!" This only helps Apple. "How?" you ask. Well, by simply doing their research and work for them. This only helps Apple by finding out where these holes are in their system and improving on it.

Granted, this also makes it harder for these 3rd party developers in making their iPhone apps. Everyone developing 3rd party apps already knows that what they are creating is not approved nor sanctioned by Apple, so this is nothing new. So what do they do? Dig deeper and find alternative ways. And what comes from this? Innovation, creative programming and development.

And who benefits from this? Well I think those of us who are enjoying these 3rd party apps, future iPhone customers as well as Apple. Apple? Yes, Apple. It gets them a chance to sit back and see what designers and programmers are developing for the iPhone as well as to see what kinds of apps people are most interested in. This gives them a chance to "preview" what kinds of apps Apple can offer to consumers in the near future. Again, they are doing some valuable R & D for them.

Steve Jobs was even quoted at the recent announcement of the iPhone in the UK that they are currently "looking into some of these apps" and looking into possibly aquiring them for future apps for the iPhone.

All someone has to do is to see the history of Apple and its aquiring of talent and software in its recent past. Programs such as Apple's popular Widgets came from a piece software known as Konfabulator. A designer & programmer, Mike Matas came from Delicious Monster. A company making software for the Mac community.

Again, innovation OUTSIDE of Apple.

People seem to forget that a lot of innovation and discovery in this industry comes from people thinking "outside the box" as well as outside the "company." Everything that comes from Apple or even companies like Apple don't always start at Apple. Innovation comes from a need and a desire to find alternative ways to solve problems or needs. Innovation is what makes companies stay one step ahead of the competition. Innovation needs to be admired, courted and encouraged. No matter what form it comes in. Let Apple do what it thinks it needs to in order to keep its software and hardware safe, secure and free of bugs. But people also need to realize that if it wasn't for a lot of the industry's "Hacks," we wouldn't have half of the innovations we seem to enjoy today.

This reminds me of two innovative computer geeks who invented the "blue box," an illegal pocket-size telephone attachment that would allow the user to make free long-distance calls over a particular telephone network.

The "Geeks" were Steve Jobs & Stephen Wozniak.

The telephone network was AT&T (ironic, isn't it?).

Just a little history lesson for those of you who forgot.