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Audio indicates kid directed planes at NY airport
- Thread starter rdowns
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...like the NYC ATC on his cell phone a few months ago? Led to the crash of airplane and copter over the Hudson. There cannot be a crack in the culture of safety. Zero tolerance for rules violations is a must.
I agree. I'm not saying there shouldn't be zero tolerance. But the system isn't nearly as broken as the media wants to make everyone believe. That incident that you're referring to on the Hudson was unfortunate and a controller on a cell phone is wholly unacceptable, but it didn't cause the accident, and it wasn't the controller's job to keep the two aircraft separated. The pilots are responsible to see and avoid each other in that situation, and they failed to do that.
Now that you mention it, I remember hearing that back when it happened. My version above was adapted from what I heard on the TV this morning. I think that reporter distorted the facts.
Seems like a pretty big and unnecessary distraction. Poor judgment and poor professionalism on the part of the controller.
Here's a rather timely article from ArsTechnica regarding ATC:
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/03/the-science-and-technology-of-air-traffic-control.ars
http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2010/03/the-science-and-technology-of-air-traffic-control.ars
I honestly can't see the problem with this. The child was never 'in control', his father was doing all of the work and just speaking through the child. There was never any danger and I'm sure it lifted the spirits of everyone involved: child, pilots and other controllers. Allowing the controllers to boost their morale with completely harmless activities will probably do much more to improve safety than worsen it.
I'm extremely surprised that so many here think this was ok. I expected about 95% against.
The guy had to know that nothing good could come of this. His general fitness needs to be investigated.
One pilot did misunderstand the kid's voice and repeated a wrong number. I'm sure that happens all the time and gets corrected, but really...
The guy had to know that nothing good could come of this. His general fitness needs to be investigated.
One pilot did misunderstand the kid's voice and repeated a wrong number. I'm sure that happens all the time and gets corrected, but really...
And I say it was relatively harmless.
This is why juries consist of multiple individuals.
Regular controllers down here at KDAB make mistakes too on call signs and headings, but they immediately correct. Hell, even FSS makes mistakes. One time I was calling them from my C172 on a solo cross country and they kept on getting my call sign wrong( after about 5 times trying to correct him, did he finally get it).
Just as long as the kid repeated what the father told him to do and if the kid made any mistakes the father was ready to step in to correct the kid it isn't as bad as the media making it out to be. While it was a bad decision and poor judgement, this wasn't the end of the world and didn't put safety at risk.
But the point is that it could put safety at risk. If one guy does it, then another, and at the same time... The ATC is supposed to be handling more than one plane at a time. He is now also handling a kid. That counts for two, maybe three pilots, because he has to pay more attention to the kid to make sure mistakes are corrected. So that's one or two planes he's not paying close attention to, or that another ATC has to monitor while his cohort is playing show and tell. It's just a bad idea!
That is why I agree it is a bad decision and poor judgement. But, seeing this person didn't put safety at risk is why I don't think he needs to be severely punished. Maybe two weeks suspension and no pay or something like that.
I don't think the guy should be fired for the first offense (counting both instances as one incident, since he wasn't reprimanded until both came to light). But if he does it again, he walks the plank. And, if they want to institute a new "zero tolerance" policy on this specific transgression, I'd be all for that.
I agree with most that it was probably poor judgment on the father, but also agree that no harm was really done and that the son was supervised and instructed the whole time. This reminds me of the two pilots on their laptops and missed landing at the airport. The media blew that story out of the water, and when I heard about it and what a big deal they were making made me think.
When we are up in the are we don't really have too much sense of direction as well as speed/distance away. Although some planes come equip. with instruments in the cabin that tell you that. But I digress. Those people probably didn't relize they had gone 100 extra miles and a plane traveling 100 miles really isn't that far considering the speed.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is what goes on unknown should just stay that way. Things will most of the time be better off not knowing.
When we are up in the are we don't really have too much sense of direction as well as speed/distance away. Although some planes come equip. with instruments in the cabin that tell you that. But I digress. Those people probably didn't relize they had gone 100 extra miles and a plane traveling 100 miles really isn't that far considering the speed.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is what goes on unknown should just stay that way. Things will most of the time be better off not knowing.