I don't loathe Avatar (loved the visuals, plot was too paint-by-numbers) but quality and popularity don't necessarily go hand in hand. Is McDonald's so popular because it serves the highest quality food?
Lethal
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'Avatar' Returning to iTunes Store with Scene Deconstruction and Green Screen X-Ray Extras
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Lethal
This!!!
I too am amazed by the phenomenon. Oh, and don't forget this movie also is getting its own theme park so yea, it can't be THAT bad!
So If I ever watch said movie and then later recognize you on the street some how you won't take offense if I punch you in the face?
Lethal
I see what you did there...
And if my name were above the title of said movie (i.e. I made the final decisions on everything) then I probably wouldn't be showing my face in public. But this is hollywood, and making $1 billion on a bad film is still 100 times better then making $10 million on a good film.
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So you agree it's popular. But now it's not quality? 250 million dollar budget buys you the very best everything money can buy in hollywood. Every penny is up there on the screen to behold. Quality, Ha! Next your going to tell me my iPhone is not quality because it costs a bunch and is very, very popular.
You seem to be trying to equate cost and popularity with quality. Just because something costs more doesn't make it good. Just because lots of people like something doesn't make it worth my time. If I build house with all the best materials, spare no expense, does that make it the best place to live? Even if it is in south central LA? I think what gets under the skin of people like me is that Avatar, and the like, are popular despite their lack of focus on the foundation of film making... The story. The whole point is to tell a good story. The special effects, art direction, cinematography, are all there to tell a story. If the story sucks, the rest was just a waste of time. And when movies like Avatar succeed, it just encourages them to make more like it. They are getting huge positive reenforcement for bad behavior. Not good.
I'm reminded of a sprite commercial I saw years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTRt1p5l22A
To you the story sucks, but I thought it was a great story. James Cameron has consistently made blockbusters that everyone loves, he definitely knows his stuff and he definitely knows how to make a good movie, far more than anyone here on Mac Rumors. People don't pay money for things they don't like.
Not to mention the point of a movie varies depending on the movie. James Cameron specifically stated in interviews that he wanted to make a movie that he'd like to go see, and that he thinks audiences would want to see too and he did just that. He never said he was after the most unique and meaningful story, or that he was creating a gritty drama, he wanted to entertain the audiences while pushing the technical envelope and he did just that.
Oh, and a note on quality, how many films do you know of that created their own language for the film? Or had the entire costume department design jewelry and clothing that would never be seen but instead be modeled in 3D? How about a movie that created an entire new way of motion capture in order to create a race of believable CG characters with as much emotion and personality as the Navi had? That to me speaks volumes on quality.
my wife loved it and i thought it was rubbish, but we didn't waste our time by trying to persuade the other that our feelings were either "right" or "wrong."
As with everything, some people like it and some don't. The mistake some people seem to make is that because they don't like it, it means that it's garbage and anyone who does like it is a shallow idiot. Avatar is not my favorite Cameron film, but I still enjoy watching it. I like the first two Terminators, Aliens, and The Abyss more.
There's a lot more to a movie than just a story. I enjoy movies that take me to another place, which is why I'm a big fan of Sci-Fi and Fantasy. Avatar does a great job of taking you to another world and immersing you. Yes, the story is derivative, but it's not awful. I think it's good, but not great. But that's only one element of a movie. Cameron himself has admitted that the story is the weakest part of Avatar, and I'm excited to see what happens with the sequels now that he's in full gear.
It seems to suddenly be very in vogue to bash Avatar and Cameron, which I suppose is a side effect of great success. Apple fans, of all people, should be very conscious of this. If it were a lower-budget less popular movie, it wouldn't be criticized nearly as hard by the self-proclaimed Internet forum experts. There's this pretencious attitude that black and white low-budget films are somehow deeper, and that anyone who thinks adding special effects and a bigger budget can make a movie more enjoyable is a moron. That's rubbish. I watch a movie to be entertained. Sometimes, that means watching a cheap thought-provoking independent film. Sometimes that means watching a SFX roller coaster of a movie. In my opinion, Avatar is a visually stunning movie, set in an incredible richly conceived fantasy world, with great action, relevant social commentary, and an average story. That still adds up to a good and enjoyable film for me.
But, it's a lot cooler to say it's worthless trash and turn your nose up at it, so we'll continue hearing a lot of that.
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Terrible movies do well in the box office all the time. See: Transformers, Twilight. Even The Last Airbender--6% on RT--did well.
Avatar did particularly well because it was a technological breakthrough, not because it was a particularly good film. I saw it in IMAX, which was quite an experience as long as I turned off my brain and enjoyed the visuals. I would give the movie a "fresh" RT rating in that respect, but it should never have been an oscar nominee for best picture.
As if that's unique to Hollywood.
Ugh. Who said that it was unpopular and who said that the visuals were sub-par? In fact, I think I said I loved the visuals. There is more to quality than just how a movie looks. If the story was just a little less paint by numbers and sophomoric Avatar would probably be one of my favorite popcorn flicks. It definitely is a film that needs to be seen on the big screen in 3D, IMO.
Lethal
This is such a great talkback! Ha!
Why is it the more popular a "thing" (movie, song, slinky) gets the louder the voices become of those that dislike it get. Just what is this phenomenon?
I mean seriously, someone already said it but just "buzz off". Your nothing but a troll if you felt compelled to contribute anything but negative comments. You don't like the subject matter, go away, be a grown up and move along, wait for the next subject that pertains to you.
Why is it the more popular a "thing" (movie, song, slinky) gets the louder the voices become of those that dislike it get. Just what is this phenomenon?
I mean seriously, someone already said it but just "buzz off". Your nothing but a troll if you felt compelled to contribute anything but negative comments. You don't like the subject matter, go away, be a grown up and move along, wait for the next subject that pertains to you.
One more vote for this being a ultimately mediocre film. That doesn't make me a snob. I wish we could have a version of Starship Troopers on iTunes with this green screen effect, rather than Avatar, which, yes, has cool special effects, but really that's all, imo.
One more day and I'll get to see the new special features
I'd love if they showed a mesh of either Sam Worthington or Zoe Saldanas character. Nothing I've found so far shows one of the meshes. I'd kill to see a texture map. (Ok maybe not kill but I'd LOVE to see it!)
I'd love if they showed a mesh of either Sam Worthington or Zoe Saldanas character. Nothing I've found so far shows one of the meshes. I'd kill to see a texture map. (Ok maybe not kill but I'd LOVE to see it!)
I really wanted to like avatar. I really did. And I really like some films that other people would scoff and jear at, proper big budget dross. I like the transformers trilogy, lord of the rings, the iron man films, x-men (apart from 3), thor, captain america, Kick ass, star wars (orginal), spiderman (apart from 3), Sherlock Holmes (just seen the second one - brilliant), the Dark Knight, serenity..... And I like sci-fi. i'm a geek, i read graffic novels. I was devastated when battlestar galactica ended. Some of his old films were excellent. i can remember seeing terminator 2 at the time and being wowed.
But I was actually bored in Avatar. It seemed to go on forever. For me 3D doesn't add a lot, but I know that is a matter of taste. All mediums tells the same story over and over again. So its lack of originality it's a massive problem. But it didn't tell that same story well. And the way it told it seemed almost overindulgent at times, labouring over highlighting the effects.
To be fair I have seen worse. I actually fell asleep for over an hour of Titanic. It was a deep and pleasant sleep though, so that trip to the cinema wasn't completely wasted.
But I was actually bored in Avatar. It seemed to go on forever. For me 3D doesn't add a lot, but I know that is a matter of taste. All mediums tells the same story over and over again. So its lack of originality it's a massive problem. But it didn't tell that same story well. And the way it told it seemed almost overindulgent at times, labouring over highlighting the effects.
To be fair I have seen worse. I actually fell asleep for over an hour of Titanic. It was a deep and pleasant sleep though, so that trip to the cinema wasn't completely wasted.
They describe this as one of the most groundbreaking movies of all time but really, it was only one of the most groundbreaking special effects spectacles of all time. As a movie, it was a barely warmed over, recycled version of the old and very tired "great white hero rescues the poor confused natives" canard.
What was impressive was how the movie broke all kinds of new ground in CG effects.
...but even that is a lousy story in and of itself. As soon as the effects work on the movie had ended, a lot of people artists that worked on it got laid off. Awesome. Work your ass off to make a badly written, poorly acted, otherwise crappy movie a raging success and get rewarded by losing your job.
Face it, not one person who likes this movie would have liked it if it had not basically been a special effects tour de force. And yet Cameron and the studios takes credit (and the money) and the people who actually did the work that everyone (including me) enjoyed get screwed over again.
That isn't to say you shouldn't go ahead and enjoy a movie that you like. We all have to have our guilty pleasures and lord knows mine are every bit as stupid as this POS.
But I just wanted to point out that the people who made it "good" are not the same folks who are getting credit for it. And those who are raking in the cash are the ones responsible for the lamest part: The recycled and unimaginative story, the cardboard acting, and the uninspired and derivative directing.
What was impressive was how the movie broke all kinds of new ground in CG effects.
...but even that is a lousy story in and of itself. As soon as the effects work on the movie had ended, a lot of people artists that worked on it got laid off. Awesome. Work your ass off to make a badly written, poorly acted, otherwise crappy movie a raging success and get rewarded by losing your job.
Face it, not one person who likes this movie would have liked it if it had not basically been a special effects tour de force. And yet Cameron and the studios takes credit (and the money) and the people who actually did the work that everyone (including me) enjoyed get screwed over again.
That isn't to say you shouldn't go ahead and enjoy a movie that you like. We all have to have our guilty pleasures and lord knows mine are every bit as stupid as this POS.
But I just wanted to point out that the people who made it "good" are not the same folks who are getting credit for it. And those who are raking in the cash are the ones responsible for the lamest part: The recycled and unimaginative story, the cardboard acting, and the uninspired and derivative directing.
Source?
You've obviously never seen an interview with James Cameron about this movie, he constantly credits everyone down to the wardrobe department who made a ton of jewelry that was never seen on screen. Not to mention directing a movie is a ton of work.
Just because you do not like the movie doesn't mean its a POS. There are plenty of movies I hate (The Godfather and Star Wars for example) but I still respect because they were very well done (in the case of both films) or made some serious technical achievements (Star Wars).
The source is me. I am in the industry and a lot of my friends who worked at both ILM and Weta Digital were laid off after the movie. And it isn't specifically James Cameron who is doing it so much as the studios. Effects artists are credited (when they do get credit) after things like accounting and catering. We work long hours and get decent enough salaries... but absolutely no job security. As soon as some other country has a tax credit or cheaper labor, our jobs vanish but the studios keep raking in the money like there is no tomorrow. Most of the top grossing films over the past decade have been effects driven, but the number of effects jobs in the U.S. is barely holding on.
Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed watching Avatar (mainly for the effects though I am not totally immune to cheap emotional manipulation). I thought on that front it is brilliant. I have a huge respect for the artists who worked on that film (and not just because many of them are my friends). It is just that I felt the story was total crap (and I'm not alone in that regard). That doesn't mean you have to think it is bad. This is just my opinion. Some of my favorite movies would most likely make you cringe (they are that bad). I'm no expert film critic.
Still, I suspect that had the story been almost 100% the same, but there had been no visual effects, the movie would have more or less tanked. To see it make that much money and then see my friends scrambling to try and find another job before their cobra runs out pisses me off.
And you are correct. I shouldn't have dragged Cameron into it so much. I think he could do a damn sight better when it comes to sticking up for the people who make his movies so successful, but he isn't the one directly laying anyone off. Still, it would have been nice to have him respond to this open letter:
http://leestranahan.com/open-letter-to-james-cameron-fairness-for-visual-effects-artists
Thank you for backing your statement up. It is a sad state for VFX artist but it is to be expected. Once a project is over people are out of work until a new one comes. I myself am trying to get in to an industry that is just as volatile.
As for the letter thats the first time I've ever seen that. It would be cool if he responded to it.
Don't get me wrong. This is the best job I have ever had and I do it despite the hours and the uncertainty (and my particular employer is pretty decent about trying not to lay anyone off if they can help it). It is just when I see things like Avatar it just triggers me a bit. That said, you should by all means enjoy the movie if it works for you.
Good luck on your own entry to your own volatile industry.
Thanks! And good luck in yours
In all honesty the only reason I'm buying this movie a third time is for the behind the scenes features. I love anything vfx and could easily spend all day watching behind the scenes stuff. It's sad how many people do not realize the amount of time and effort that goes in to creating any type of effect.
Hopefully more movies in the future will release a lot more behind the scenes features and draw attention to the sheer amount of work people like yourself put in to a movie.