Behind the Deal for Apple's North Carolina Data Center

[JAT]

It is entirely possible they didn't plan on a solar farm until way after the design of the data center.

But they should have. And the design would be possible. Humans are somewhat bright.

This needs to be a change in thinking for more than just Apple.

 

[charlieegan3]

What? No Anti-Air Turrets?

 

[User3977]

Don't forget that the area gets snow to, that stuff can add up real fast in weight. could be a reason they did not put panels on the roof. I'm sure its built strong enough to support them alone, just not with the extra snow on them.

The additional roof load wouldn't have been calculated in the initial structure, and thus it wouldn't be safe to put it up.

Furthermore, whether it would have been cheaper initially to build the roof in such a way as to be a solar farm, or buy extra land is not as cut and dry as you would think.

Every successive beefing up of the roof adds to the building cost disproportionately, and you still have to deal with the fact that your workers and maintenance guys are all on the roof, every fastener needs to be water tight, you need to be so careful of the membrane, etc etc etc.

Even if they did plan on the solar right from the start, there is a good chance, depending on land value, that it would still be more economical to do the solar install at another site.

Besides, the less 3rd party workers in and around their data centers, the better they feel. Physical security will be immensely important to them.

Karl P

Edit: Fix Clarity.

 

[z2daj]

How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either.

I'm not sure from where you're getting the suggestion that Apple is "a utility company." It's a valid question regardless of who owns the building, Apple or some other company. If there is a very large building with a significant amount of roof surface area, I would think people would wonder why they couldn't put panels on the roof, building design aside. It's just a general observation, having nothing to do with corporate white papers.

Obviously if the building wasn't designed to have solar panels on the roof, or if the owner of the building doesn't want solar panels on the roof, they are perfectly able to make that decision. They own the place after all.

Don't forget that the area gets snow to, that stuff can add up real fast in weight. could be a reason they did not put panels on the roof. I'm sure its built strong enough to support them alone, just not with the extra snow on them.

Excellent point

 

[GorgonPhone]

this is boring

 

[JHankwitz]

Since this data center is so large, it would make sense to save some land-space and the money involved in developing that space as a solar farm by putting some panels on the roof.

Putting masive solar panels on a roof is cost prohibitive.
Do you have any idea how much solar panels weigh?
1. Supporting structure Costs
2. Instalation Costs
3. Access & Maintenance Costs

 

[lzyprson]

Is that a data center for ants? It needs to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger...

It's big enough for roughly 30 or so employees' and a whole lot of servers and other hardware!!

 

[JHankwitz]

KidIcarus412
It is entirely possible they didn't plan on a solar farm until way after the design of the data center.

But they should have. And the design would be possible. Humans are somewhat bright.

This needs to be a change in thinking for more than just Apple.

Do you have solar panels on your house or appartment? Why not? You should have planned for that since you seem to be somewhat bright.

 

[Stephen123]

The roof is a large reflective expanse with a massive heat source under it. Solar panels can be up to 40% less efficient when hot. Further, a well built solar farm leaves the land under the panels available for wildlife movement and water absorption from rain. There's no reason they need to pave a new expanse for a solar farm.

 

[z2daj]

Putting masive solar panels on a roof is cost prohibitive.
Do you have any idea how much solar panels weigh?
1. Supporting structure Costs
2. Instalation Costs
3. Access & Maintenance Costs

I am fully aware of all the costs associated with installing solar panels onto a building. Regardless, there is still a lot of surface area on that roof.

It was simply an observation.

 

[FakeWozniak]

Good eye.. or perhaps you have 100 dead pixels in your MBPr.

You reminded me of when I worked in a lab that had laser warning signs all over. One humorous sign read "Caution: Do not look into laser with remaining eye!"

I'm using an 11" MBA on a Thunderbold Display. Could you imagine the cost of a 27" Thunderbolt Retina Display? The resolution would be about 5120x2880.

 

[OatmealRocks]

Just want to say thanks to all who are interested in engaging in a conversation about this rather than throwing insults around. 99% of what goes on in these discussions is just speculative chattering with the hopes that someone with a bit of knowledge can lend their 2cents. There is no place for people like OatmealRocks who do not contribute to the conversation any more than to put people down.

Hey special snowflake. Every time you have a brain fart does not mean what you have said is engaging or of value.

 

[FakeWozniak]

To me it looks like one person and a mannequin. Hard to say, though.

You'd make a good cop patrolling the carpool lane!

 

[OatmealRocks]

I am fully aware of all the costs associated with installing solar panels onto a building. Regardless, there is still a lot of surface area on that roof.

That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.

 

[JAT]

Do you have solar panels on your house or appartment? Why not? You should have planned for that since you seem to be somewhat bright.

Not yet. Because of cost. (I don't have $100b in cash) I'm trying to work it out, the housing/mortgage crisis has really cramped my ability to upgrade/remodel my house.

Any more complaints about me?

 

[OatmealRocks]

You'd make a good cop patrolling the carpool lane!

lol

----------

Do you have solar panels on your house or appartment? Why not? You should have planned for that since you seem to be somewhat bright.

Hey.. these posters are obviously too smart and totally under utilized in their job. They have identified a MAJOR FLAW with APPLE's data center. What they should be doing is writing an email to Tim Cook.

----------

You reminded me of when I worked in a lab that had laser warning signs all over. One humorous sign read "Caution: Do not look into laser with remaining eye!"

I'm using an 11" MBA on a Thunderbold Display. Could you imagine the cost of a 27" Thunderbolt Retina Display? The resolution would be about 5120x2880.

27 iMac with Retina would be heaven I think or hell on my wallet.

 

[Alameda]

Judging by the size of the parking lot, it doesn't look like it will bring in many jobs.

 

[OatmealRocks]

Not yet. Because of cost. (I don't have $100b in cash) I'm trying to work it out, the housing/mortgage crisis has really cramped my ability to upgrade/remodel my house.

Any more complaints about me?

100B to do solar panels for your house? I hope not. I agree on the mortgage crisis..it really is a deal breaker on any upgrades planned.

 

[Laird Knox]

Very surprised T5 was involved. They are in the business of wholesaling data center space, and the engineer they work with doesn't have a relationship with Apple, at least not that I am aware of.

T5 wasn't involved. The deal with T5 fell through and the county turned around and offered it to Apple.

 

[OatmealRocks]

Judging by the size of the parking lot, it doesn't look like it will bring in many jobs.

Ohh we have a parking lot professional here. In before Data center is not good enough in terms of jobs. We must require 1 staff per 1 server or 1 TB ratio and also complaints on how poor this solution is when Apple gives sooo many jobs to China.

I'm sure the parking lot is sufficient in term so jobs required to handle the data center.

 

[chilly willy]

Catawba County has been hit very hard by the recession - and previous/continued losses of mfg jobs being sent overseas. This center may not employee thousands, but it is a godsend for that area.

You can see the solar farm being constructed from the highway - I travel that way for work sometimes - but soon trees they are planting will block any view. Secretive Apple.

 

[chiefsilverback]

That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.

Methinks Mr O Rocks has been grounded by his mummy for looking at naughty websites so he's venting his pent up teenage angst here!

The question "why didn't Apple put solar panels on the roof?" is valid and my guess at an answer, along with the concerns raised about roof load etc... is that 500,000 sq ft is just too small to be of any real use as a solar array. The reasoning behind my assertion is that Apple are in the process of clearing 7.5 million square feet of land to build a solar farm on the other side of the street.

With regards to Mr O Rocks protestations about Apple not being a utility company, he seems to be forgetting that the plans for their new headquarters do include a small powerstation (fuel cell farm) similar to the one that's planned for the NC data center. To that end it would seem that Apple are investing some significant capital into power generation so one could argue that they are in fact something of a small utility company.

Now hopefully Mr Rocks will have his milk and cookies and calm down a little bit!?!?!

 

[z2daj]

That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.

I don't understand what your problem is...

You really need to stop and re-read what you post, and what I post, and read it in context.

I'm not saying that Apple is a utility company. I am not saying that Apple sells electricity, nor did I say that the lack of panels on the roof is a flaw in their data center design... where you are getting that misinformation is beyond me.

I am amazed how you cannot see that I am just making a general observation. Do I want Apple to put panels on the roof? Am I demanding it? No, I'm not. I just look at their data center and think "I wonder if they could have put that surface area to use...", which is very different from "How dare they not put that surface area to use!"

Get over yourself.

 

[chiefsilverback]

How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either. It is easy in hindsight to point out subjective flaws but at the end of the day they think their assumptions and suggestions are better than the decisions made by a organization as large as apple.

Incidentally I think it should be law for all new buildings to include as many 'green' features as possible, from single family homes all the way up to massive commercial structures. If solar panels were a pre-requisite then there would be huge demand which would enable quicker development of new technologies and reduced price making panels more affordable.

I'm under no illusions that it would solve the world's energy problems, but it would help! Same with wind turbines and rain water storage tanks.

 

[hickabob]

Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?