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chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Exactly, AL. With Chimera becoming increasingly solid (I haven't had it crash on me in two days--something I could never have said about IE), preferences, plugin support, and other features are the only things that designate it a beta release. While I think some piece of this is the result of OS X being a new OS (e.g., no browser I know of supports RealPlayer fully, as Real has only recently gotten on-board), some of this is just Chimera maturing.

While the maturing it has done in the past few weeks seems something less than the progress it was making months ago, that is clearly because there was more to fix back then. It is certainly getting closer and closer to a "finished product." I can't wait to see what the next month brings.

Chris
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
I haven't had IE crash on me in weeks and I spend several hours a day on the net. I don't like Microsoft but I am confident in my decision to use it because it is still the most standard compatible web browser option currently on a mac.
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Originally posted by MacBandit
I haven't had IE crash on me in weeks and I spend several hours a day on the net. I don't like Microsoft but I am confident in my decision to use it because it is still the most standard compatible web browser option currently on a mac.
Seems to be a pretty consistent discrepancy here--probably machine-dependant. My wife has an old iBook SE. Mozilla crashes on her about twice a day, and Chimera is very unstable. I don't think IE has crashed on her in the two weeks she's been using Jaguar (though she doesn't use it all that much, preferring Mozilla). On by TiBook 667, Mozilla has crashed maybe twice in the last two months I used it as my primary browser (before I switched to Chimera), and I can't keep IE up for more than 2 hours without a crash.

I hate M$, but am selfish enough to use the software that works best for me. If IE were as fast, stable, and compliant as Mozilla, I would use it.

A lot of variability on this issue...

Anyway, Chimera's progress is just staggering and incredibly promising. Maybe all you IE folks will switch before the end of the year.

Chris
 

AmbitiousLemon

Moderator emeritus
Nov 28, 2001
3,415
3
down in Fraggle Rock
the crashing issue i find puzzling. i have two macs of my own and maintain several dozen more and no computer i use has any app crash on any regular basis. there are some apps that infrequently crash (less than once a month) and they tend to be browsers (of any breed) or betaware.

i agree that ie crashes more than any other app but it still crashes very infrequently.

in my opinion any crash/freeze is a very serious issue and if it happens to you on a regualr basis you need to do some disk maint in my opinion as soon as disk warrior comes out with a version 3 that is fully osx we will all be much happier.
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
the crashing issue i find puzzling. i have two macs of my own and maintain several dozen more and no computer i use has any app crash on any regular basis. there are some apps that infrequently crash (less than once a month) and they tend to be browsers (of any breed) or betaware.

i agree that ie crashes more than any other app but it still crashes very infrequently.

in my opinion any crash/freeze is a very serious issue and if it happens to you on a regualr basis you need to do some disk maint in my opinion as soon as disk warrior comes out with a version 3 that is fully osx we will all be much happier.
I run fsck and on my HD weekly (and Drive 10 occasionally). I optimize my hard drive monthly. My computer is in impeccable shape. IE is the only non-beta software I have that crashes regularly.

Chris
 

scem0

macrumors 604
Jul 16, 2002
7,028
1
back in NYC!
Chimera is my default, although I have IE, Omni, and Mozilla on my computer. I only use Chimera though. I just got the latest nightly and I cant tell a diference from .4, but I dont care, it is fast just the same. :D OmniWeb is pretty good. IE is OK. Moz is really cool if you like a lot of features, etc. Im ready for Chimera 1.0.

I think that apple hiring the Chimera dude majorly reinforces that apple will make a browser. And even if they dont within the next 6 months we know they are interested in one because why else would they hire whatever his name is. :D
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,219
2
San Diego, CA
Until OW gets its CSS implementation together, I don't consider it an option...

Mozilla and Chimera have the best CSS support I've seen, with IE a close second.
 

AmbitiousLemon

Moderator emeritus
Nov 28, 2001
3,415
3
down in Fraggle Rock
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Until OW gets its CSS implementation together, I don't consider it an option...

Mozilla and Chimera have the best CSS support I've seen, with IE a close second.

i think when ow gets v5 out the door we all might be amazed... at least thats what i am hoping. the omnigroup has done a good job listening to what people want. first people said it was slow - they sped it up (its faster than ie now) next people said the rendering sucked -- now they are redesigning the rendering engine. im heopful but it will be a long wait.
 

Rower_CPU

Moderator emeritus
Oct 5, 2001
11,219
2
San Diego, CA
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
i think when ow gets v5 out the door we all might be amazed... at least thats what i am hoping. the omnigroup has done a good job listening to what people want. first people said it was slow - they sped it up (its faster than ie now) next people said the rendering sucked -- now they are redesigning the rendering engine. im heopful but it will be a long wait.

That would be fantastic.

I'm pretty upset with CSS implementation as it stands now in all the browsers. As a developer, I shouldn't have to worry about W3C standards being implemented properly, and yet, you still have to check multiple browsers to make sure. It's such a tremendous waste of time/development to work around the inconsistencies.

What's going to happen when CSS3 is ratified? How long will it take for the browsers to support that?
 

sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
2,307
0
Greensboro, NC
Originally posted by scem0

I think that apple hiring the Chimera dude majorly reinforces that apple will make a browser. And even if they dont within the next 6 months we know they are interested in one because why else would they hire whatever his name is. :D

i really think that this is a ridiculous speculation that has been brought forth by alot of people. the man is a good coder. he never used his mac at netscape...like ever. then he decided he wanted to make a cocoa front end for mozilla. he really didnt know much about cocoa either. yet he was able to create a design concept that everyone has grown to love, and basically did all the early coding himself. that is just about the best resume you can have to work at apple.

he doesnt pretend to be a mac zealot, and he he has mixed views on the objective-c implementation that is cocoa. but he still went ahead and created this browser.

creating the main browser of a project like mozilla (which he did) involves alot of groundwork and understanding when it comes to networking protocols, extendable codebase, etc.

i say just because they hired him does not mean apple is interested in making a browser. hyatt has shown himself to be a very good coder, UI designer, and fast learner who is willing to take on new challenges and go against the grain of what he already knows and is accustomed to. this can be useful in ANY project.
 

sparkleytone

macrumors 68020
Oct 28, 2001
2,307
0
Greensboro, NC
yet another longass post to keep you informed. the latest nightly has a couple extra files, one with changes from .4 -> .5

here is the content.

New and improved features in Chimera 0.5

The following bug fixes and improvements have been made since Chimera 0.4:

• A downloading dialog is shown now, for file downloads, and when saving pages. A number of bugs were fixed, related to the download file disappearing, and downloading BinHex files.
• Importing of bookmarks files containing illegal characters was made more reliable, and can no longer leave you with a corrupted bookmarks file.
• Fixed display of non-Roman characters in bookmarks text in the UI.
• Changed forward/back and next/previous tab keyboard shortcuts, to avoid conflicting with the use of Command-arrow key combinations for text navigation.
• The search page (loaded in response to Go->Search Page) uses the Internet Config setting now. Unfortunately, Apple removed UI for that setting from the Internet system preferences pane in Mac OS 10.2 (Jaguar). See the “Known issues” section below for a workaround.
• Improved dragging of links from browser window; page links can now be dragged onto other tabs, into the bookmarks sidebar, and onto the bookmarks toolbar.
• Improved drag and drop of bookmarks, and items on the bookmarks toolbar, which can now be reordered, dragged to the trash to delete them, and cloned with option-drag.
• Fixed some issues that caused a multi-line bookmarks toolbar to display incorrectly.
• Performance is much better with large numbers of tabs open. The tabs are now all equal width, and can show the site icon (which is draggable).
• You can now drag bookmarks and links to tabs, and drag from tabs to other tabs or bookmark locations (click on the tab icon to drag). Dragging into the background area behind the tabs will create a new tab.
• New tabs now always appear on the right-hand side of the tabbed browser view, because having tabs appear next to the current view confused some users.
• Added site icons (favicons) for the url bar, and tabs. You can also make them visible for bookmarks by setting the pref browser.chrome.favicons to true in prefs.js, but this can cause some page-loading delays at startup.
• The Build ID, which identifies the day the build was made, is shown on the splash screen, and in the About window now.
• Added some updated icons for various toolbar buttons.
• Added the Universal Character set detector, which improves the display of pages in non-Roman character encodings.
• Updated Chimera to use a more recent version of the Mozilla 1.0 code, which brings with it changes in many parts of the code, many of which are security related.
• On quitting, the prefs.js file is backed up now to prefs.bak.
• Several fixes make the Java plugin more stable now, particularly on Mac OS 10.2.
• Some other plugin drawing and stability fixes were done.
• Changed the package layout of the Navigator package to allow for localizations.
• Fixed some issues with linebreaks, and Unicode data, when copying and pasting between Chimera and other applications.
• Holding down the shift key while clicking the reload button always fetches the page from the server now.
• XHTML files are loaded correctly now.
• Typing in Japanese and other multi-byte languages mostly works now.

Known issues

• Cosmetic issues occur with many plugins, especially if you switch tabs on pages with plugins. Some stability issues affect plugins; visiting pages with some plugins can crash.
• Sometimes, on Mac OS 10.2 (Jaguar), Navigator won’t stick as your default browser. If you have this problem, try removing the following files:
~/Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices.UserCache.csstore (where ~ is your Home directory)
/Library/Caches/com.apple.LaunchServices.LocalCache.csstore
and reboot your machine.
• Typing in Japanese, and other multi-byte languages, is not fully implemented yet.
• You may see some redraw issues when pasting into textareas, and doing Find Again. Resizing the window will correct these.
• Sometimes, a background window will pop to the front when its page finishes loading.
• For reasons not yet understood, Chimera will sometimes use a lot of CPU time for a few minutes, then gradually reduce to its usual low CPU usage. This seems to happen mostly after waking from sleep.
• The Fonts tab of the Appearance prefs pane is work in progress. In particular, the font sizes can interfere with eachother, and sometimes the fonts default back to Lucida Grande.
• Services support isn’t fully implemented in the web content yet.
• There is no way to export bookmarks to HTML at present.
• Dragging an image to the Finder doesn’t do the right thing.
• In Mac OS 10.2 (Jaguar), form buttons sometimes draw incorrectly (with a horizontal stripe).
• Trying to import a large bookmarks file sometimes fails to import all of the bookmarks. Breaking the file into a number of smaller files should help.
• After doing a “View Source” on a page, you can’t save the page source. As a workaround, Select All and Copy.
• There is no History visible in the UI by default. You can make the History tab in the sidebar visible by adding this line to your prefs.js file in the Chimera profile folder:
user_pref("chimera.show_history", true);
• The Go->Search Page command always loads an excite.com url in Mac OS 10.2 (Jaguar), and there is no system UI to change it. As a workaround, you can edit a string in the Navigator package to set your preferred search page. Context-click on the Navigator icon, and choose “Show Package Contents”. In the resulting Finder window, go down into Contents/Resources, and open the WebsiteDefaults.strings file in your favorite text editor. On the line containing SearchPageDefault, remove the /* at the start, change http://www.dmoz.org to your preferred search site, and delete everything after the semicolon. Then save the file.
• After blocking popups for the first time, there is no way to have popups show up again. If you need popups to work (say, to access a site that requires them, edit your prefs.js file, changing the line that contains dom.disable_open_during_load to:
user_pref("dom.disable_open_during_load", false);
 

AmbitiousLemon

Moderator emeritus
Nov 28, 2001
3,415
3
down in Fraggle Rock
Originally posted by sparkleytone
i really think that this is a ridiculous speculation that has been brought forth by alot of people. the man is a good coder.

o you just had to go and be the voice of reason now didnt you? here i was fanning the flames bringing up every random unsubstanciated rumor and you go and set the record straight.

all kidding aside whouldnt we be seeing mozilla 1.2 soon? roadmaps says sept 4th i believe. chimera already went back to the moz code once i wonder if they will do it again (despite their claim to wait until they reach 1.0)
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
all kidding aside whouldnt we be seeing mozilla 1.2 soon? roadmaps says sept 4th i believe. chimera already went back to the moz code once i wonder if they will do it again (despite their claim to wait until they reach 1.0)
Sure would expect to see Mozilla 1.2 soon. I would also imagine that the Chimera team will stay smart--if 1.2 shows the speed and stability improvements 1.0-1.1 did, they would be wise to returm to the tree yet again.

So the "official" Chimera 0.5 is out, obviously. The Chimera team seems to have some consistent habits...

Chris
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
yes. .5 DONT UPGRADE!!! o and btw can someone share a copy of chimera .4 ?
Runs fine on my machine. Maybe you need to do some maintenance. ;)

Seriously, though, what's the issue?

Chris
 

AmbitiousLemon

Moderator emeritus
Nov 28, 2001
3,415
3
down in Fraggle Rock
well in the later nightlys apparently there was a bug introduced that caused the system preference to not allow navigator to 'stick.' as soon as you closed the system prefs it would change to ie. i apparently never downloaed one of these as i never had the problem. well the developers were trying to fix this problem in the final .5 release. they fixed it but only sort of. you have to have chimera in the applications folder otherwise you get the same bug. most people will probably never notice this, but i keep my apps on a separate partition. it works fine if i put it in the applications folder but i dont like that it is there.

on a positive note, it seems even faster.
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
well in the later nightlys apparently there was a bug introduced that caused the system preference to not allow navigator to 'stick.' as soon as you closed the system prefs it would change to ie. i apparently never downloaed one of these as i never had the problem. well the developers were trying to fix this problem in the final .5 release. they fixed it but only sort of. you have to have chimera in the applications folder otherwise you get the same bug. most people will probably never notice this, but i keep my apps on a separate partition. it works fine if i put it in the applications folder but i dont like that it is there.

on a positive note, it seems even faster.
I don't have mine in my Apps folder, and it works fine. Mine is in Apps>Internet. Perhaps it works because it's a subfolder, but your options are not as limited as all that.

Chris
 

AmbitiousLemon

Moderator emeritus
Nov 28, 2001
3,415
3
down in Fraggle Rock
Originally posted by chmorley
I don't have mine in my Apps folder, and it works fine. Mine is in Apps>Internet. Perhaps it works because it's a subfolder, but your options are not as limited as all that.

Chris

try taking it out of the apps folder.
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Originally posted by sphereboy
How do you make Chimera your default browser? I would love to remove IE as my default.

Thanks
Go to your Internet preference pane. Go to the "Web" tab. In 10.2, Chimera will come up as an option (called "Navigator"). In previous versions of OS X you will have to enter it manually (although there is a freeware widget that will fix this).

Chris
 

P-Worm

macrumors 68020
Jul 16, 2002
2,045
1
Salt Lake City, UT
I'm just curious, does anone have problems with movies opening in the wrong spot of a web page. It seems that I get this problem every time I use Chimera. Don't get me wrong, I think that Chimera is the best browser ever even though it is only officially at version 0.4.

So what is it? Anyone else experiencing the same thing?
 

chmorley

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 2, 2002
602
2
Denver, CO
Quicktime plugin

Yes, there are a few problems with plugins, including the Quicktime plugin.

Also, the official version is 0.5. Here is the latest official release. I actually think some important strides have been made since its release (on 9/9). You might try the latest nightly.

Chris
 

brogers

macrumors regular
Apr 6, 2002
192
0
Greensboro, NC
But why can't I.....

Just a simple question that may have been discussed already. I use Chimera as my default browser. I love it, but I have to use IE if I want to check my bank statements, 401K stuff...etc. OW nor Chimera will let me in those sites.....why?
 

Taft

macrumors 65816
Jan 31, 2002
1,319
0
Chicago
Re: But why can't I.....

Originally posted by brogers
Just a simple question that may have been discussed already. I use Chimera as my default browser. I love it, but I have to use IE if I want to check my bank statements, 401K stuff...etc. OW nor Chimera will let me in those sites.....why?

It depends on the bank. I've had good luck with BankOne, but other people have big problems with other banks.

There are some sites that check to make sure the browser is IE and if it isn't, won't let the user continue to their site. Pretty annoying.

Taft
 
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