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Could Apple TV 6 support TV sound through HomePod?
- Thread starter Chrisbc
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????
all appleTVs since the first model have been able to pass audio over the HDMI cable.
how would sound get into the homepod once it went through the HDMI cable?
that would require a HomePod with an input connection. meaning it would be a HomePod update, not an appleTV.
What's an appleTV 6? are you counting the 4k as the 5?
If you want to use HDMI audio, you need to use another speaker
all appleTVs since the first model have been able to pass audio over the HDMI cable.
how would sound get into the homepod once it went through the HDMI cable?
that would require a HomePod with an input connection. meaning it would be a HomePod update, not an appleTV.
What's an appleTV 6? are you counting the 4k as the 5?
If you want to use HDMI audio, you need to use another speaker
Yes counting the 4k as 5.
I want to be able to play my Nintendo switch with sound going through the HomePods. Sound from the TV through the HomePods too.
no, you can't do that
even airplay TVs are just receivers, they can't send airplay audio, just play it.
the sound from your TV/switch never goes to the appleTV, so there's no way for the sound to go from there to the HomePod.
wireless isn't the best choice for gaming anyway, as it can lead to delays.
even airplay TVs are just receivers, they can't send airplay audio, just play it.
the sound from your TV/switch never goes to the appleTV, so there's no way for the sound to go from there to the HomePod.
wireless isn't the best choice for gaming anyway, as it can lead to delays.
What about if you use the arc/earc HDMI port on the TV?
My understanding is that this can carry video to the tv and audio from the tv to the Apple TV. This would be perfect for new HomePod surround sound update.
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If a pair of HomePods can deliver decent surround sound (even Atmos) then this could make a nice, cheap and simple alternative to AVR-centric home theatre setups. However, since there are usually situations where you have sound sources other than the Apple TV itself (such as TV sound, or a disc player hooked up to the TV) you’d need the Apple TV to support ARC, in order to get sound back from the TV. But I suppose ARC support is not there in any of the current models?
No. Since appleTV is also a signal source, not an amplifier, it makes no sense to have ARC.
ARC serves only one specific purpose - provide a backward channel (hence Return) from the display (HDMI signal sink) to the signal Source (HDMI Output on AVR/Soundbar). HDMI is, by design, a unidirectional channel.
From Source to Sink only. ARC provides 2 wires that carry audio signal on same "river" against direction of flow.
ARC would make sense, if appleTV knew what to do with the incoming audio.
As it is now, it does not. It is itself an audio source.
It would make sense in exactly the situation I’ve been describing.
Stop and think about what adding ARC to the ATV might mean to both Apple and its customers. From the business perspective it puts Apple into the soundbar market with another outlet for additional HomePod sales. From a consumer perspective, especially those with existing Apple infrastructure, their home AV system just became more integrated and possibly less complicated (TV, ATV, HomePods, plus whatever additional viewing source -ex. Dish, Directv). No question that true audiophiles or those wanting higher end theater arrangements will not go in this direction but for many others the sound quality provided by the HomePods would definitely be an acceptable ticket.
With tvOS 14.2, you can already use HomePods as the default audio destination for an Apple TV:
Use HomePod with Apple TV 4K
You can use HomePod with your Apple TV to create an immersive theater experience.
support.apple.com
This sounds like something a TV would have to support, as well as the aTV.
Think about it, you want your TV set to HDMI2 (for example) to play your Switch. But then you want the TV to take the incoming audio from HDMI and use ARC to send the audio back over the cable plugged into HDMI1. Then the Apple TV needs to receive that and output it to the HomePods.
So, not only would the Apple TV need to support it (and essentially act as an AVR or soundbar), the TV would need to strip the audio from HDMI2 and send it back over HDMI1.
The only other option would be to have HDMI inputs on the Apple TV, which would then actually make it into an AVR.
Think about it, you want your TV set to HDMI2 (for example) to play your Switch. But then you want the TV to take the incoming audio from HDMI and use ARC to send the audio back over the cable plugged into HDMI1. Then the Apple TV needs to receive that and output it to the HomePods.
So, not only would the Apple TV need to support it (and essentially act as an AVR or soundbar), the TV would need to strip the audio from HDMI2 and send it back over HDMI1.
The only other option would be to have HDMI inputs on the Apple TV, which would then actually make it into an AVR.
You've just described how ARC works
there is one specific HDMI input on the TV that can also send audio "backwards" - so the audio will go out of an input
When any of the other inputs are selected, or you're using an app on the TV, then the TV takes that audio and sends it out on of the inputs on the TV using ARC.
The ATV would have to have the hardware be an ARC receiver.
--If using the aTV it would send it's audio directly to the hompods
--if using an app or another input on the TV, then the aTV would behave just like an AVR, so the TV would send audio to the aTV using ARC, then the aTV would send to the HomePods.
It still sounds like a poor way to go,
When using wireless audio, having at least a small delay is pretty much guaranteed. Also every time a signal is processed, more delay is added. (like when the aTV will have to convert the audio to stream it to the HomePod)
when using an app on the aTV, then the aTV has some clue about how much delay is being introduced in the audio path, so it can delay its video output to match.
But when using another input or app on the TV, it would have no clue about the delay happening downstream in the audio path, so you have a really good chance of noticeable lip-sync issues.
HDMI does have a lip-sync function, but it seems to only work to counteract delays in the video proccessing, by adding a bit of delay to the audio. which wouldn't be helpful here.
Well in that case, I guess I didn't realize that's how ARC worked. I've always had an AVR that all of my components are plugged into. It has been a long time since I've had more than one HDMI cable plugged into the TV (the output from the AVR).
I assumed ARC was simply returning the TV's audio back to the speaker system (AVR, etc.). I could see how this would be useful when using an app built into a smart TV, but didn't realize the TV would send the audio from other HDMI inputs back over the ARC-enable HDMI input.
So I decided to give it a try and bought a pair of HomePods. Turns out, the lack of ARC on the AppleTV was the least of the issues I had. The sound quality of a stereo pair of HomePods with the AppleTV 4k is very disappointing (annoyingly bad midrange, not even a semblance of surround sound), and AV sync is all over the place (even after a half a night worth of calibration efforts).
I cannot recommend the HomePods as home theatre speakers, they’re going back. Which makes the question of ARC support by the AppleTV moot.
I cannot recommend the HomePods as home theatre speakers, they’re going back. Which makes the question of ARC support by the AppleTV moot.
I think you must be the first person I’ve seen to say they’re disappointing.
Everyone else that I’ve seen talk about them since the most recent tvOS release say how impressed they are with the sound they’re getting with two of them paired.
Yes, I’ve read a lot about how fantastic they sound, but didn’t hear them for myself before ordering. Nor did I know anyone who owned them.
So, there it is. I find that they sound very weirdly unbalanced, compared to quality stereo speakers. They have a boomy upper bass, tizzy highs and a very poor midrange. The latter bothers me most. I find that the Homepods mini sound more agreeable, even though they don’t have the same fake bass extension.
As for immersive sound, or home theatre surrogate surround, it did not work well at all. I placed them according to Apple’s KB article, and also experimented with many other placement options. After each change of placement I gave them some 10 minutes’ worth of playing music, so they could adapt to their new location. They project a diffuse wall of sound that doesn’t extend far into the room, and certainly not behind the listener. I have heard far more impressive results from regular stereo speakers and Q-Sound mixes, for example.
In any case, Apple took them back, no questions asked.
So, there it is. I find that they sound very weirdly unbalanced, compared to quality stereo speakers. They have a boomy upper bass, tizzy highs and a very poor midrange. The latter bothers me most. I find that the Homepods mini sound more agreeable, even though they don’t have the same fake bass extension.
As for immersive sound, or home theatre surrogate surround, it did not work well at all. I placed them according to Apple’s KB article, and also experimented with many other placement options. After each change of placement I gave them some 10 minutes’ worth of playing music, so they could adapt to their new location. They project a diffuse wall of sound that doesn’t extend far into the room, and certainly not behind the listener. I have heard far more impressive results from regular stereo speakers and Q-Sound mixes, for example.
In any case, Apple took them back, no questions asked.
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I think it must depend on what you are comparing to, dotnet didnt say. His criticism reads very much like an amateur wine connoisseur trying to impress, perhaps it was the floral notes. Now me, I do find them quite pleasing for the price, but sure, they don't compete with my $2000 Klipsch 7.1 surround system. I do agree I find the high range to be a tad harsh, but I do like how they adjust for the room. They are much more forgiving in terms of a 'sweet spot.'
I just now found this thread while searching for “Apple TV 4K”, “HomePod” and “ARC “, then I registered on MacRumors’ forum to join the discussion! Kudos to @Chrisbc and @dotnet for having great minds that think alike and identifying the technically-feasible ATV device feature I was hoping to learn was already implemented (HDMI ARC support to Apple *Pods and AirPlay devices).
To any lurking readers on Apple’s Product Management team: I was looking for this info because I would’ve purchased a new ATV device today (and another HomePod) if it could support HDMI ARC as described by some in this thread. For that matter, if an Apple TV device could simply channel the TV’s ARC stream to my AirPods Pro via Bluetooth (with the spiffy new “automatic switching” function as implemented in iCloud, iOS 14 and Big Sur), I‘d be sold on just that alone! While Apple has arguably earned the right to become the center of their customers’ digital universe, Apple can’t be/isn’t the source or path of their ENTIRE digital universe! Product Marketing dogmas such as “AirPlay shall ONLY support Apple devices as sources” get in the way of customers’ enjoyment of Apple products (and presumably limit Apple revenues). Of course, the apparent marketing dogma I cite in this case would actually be satisfied because the ARC audio content from non-Apple sources would be passing through a relatively-expensive Apple TV device!
Since this is my first post on MacRumors, I’ll share that despite being a longtime tech-industry professional and geek, until this year, I hadn’t purchased an Apple product for myself since 1984... Back then I was selling (and purchased one of) the original Macs. Lured by a desire to use FaceTime with friends & family, I’ve recently jumped into the Apple iEcosystem with both feet (and wallet!). Starting with a spiffy new iPhone to replace my latest Android device, I’ve now collected an iPad Pro 12”; a MacBook Air; a set of AirPods Pro; a HomePod mini, and also a new LG TV with “AirPlay 2 TV” support (and the webos AppleTV app).
I assume that like me, many part-time home theater/AV enthusiasts who assembled their home theater system around HDMI and 1080p ten years ago would be happy to forego replacing an AVR that’s perfectly good apart from obsolete (1080p) HDMI support. Assuming @dotnet is too picky or that Apple can software-fix the sound issues he identified, I would cheerfully see an Apple TV device (with full time ARC support to HomePods/AirPods/AirPlay) as my default big-screen audio-video-sound channel. I would then likely fire up the old AVR and 5.1 speakers only when I’m doing truly focused TV/couch time (the newer UHD/4K TVs can still feed an old receiver’s surround system via TOSC while the HDMI-1/ARC port gets connected to a future Apple TV device). OTOH, if multi-HomePod sound quality hits its immersive potential, I’ll happily get rid of those old bulky stereo/home theater components and speakers.
To any lurking readers on Apple’s Product Management team: I was looking for this info because I would’ve purchased a new ATV device today (and another HomePod) if it could support HDMI ARC as described by some in this thread. For that matter, if an Apple TV device could simply channel the TV’s ARC stream to my AirPods Pro via Bluetooth (with the spiffy new “automatic switching” function as implemented in iCloud, iOS 14 and Big Sur), I‘d be sold on just that alone! While Apple has arguably earned the right to become the center of their customers’ digital universe, Apple can’t be/isn’t the source or path of their ENTIRE digital universe! Product Marketing dogmas such as “AirPlay shall ONLY support Apple devices as sources” get in the way of customers’ enjoyment of Apple products (and presumably limit Apple revenues). Of course, the apparent marketing dogma I cite in this case would actually be satisfied because the ARC audio content from non-Apple sources would be passing through a relatively-expensive Apple TV device!
Since this is my first post on MacRumors, I’ll share that despite being a longtime tech-industry professional and geek, until this year, I hadn’t purchased an Apple product for myself since 1984... Back then I was selling (and purchased one of) the original Macs. Lured by a desire to use FaceTime with friends & family, I’ve recently jumped into the Apple iEcosystem with both feet (and wallet!). Starting with a spiffy new iPhone to replace my latest Android device, I’ve now collected an iPad Pro 12”; a MacBook Air; a set of AirPods Pro; a HomePod mini, and also a new LG TV with “AirPlay 2 TV” support (and the webos AppleTV app).
I assume that like me, many part-time home theater/AV enthusiasts who assembled their home theater system around HDMI and 1080p ten years ago would be happy to forego replacing an AVR that’s perfectly good apart from obsolete (1080p) HDMI support. Assuming @dotnet is too picky or that Apple can software-fix the sound issues he identified, I would cheerfully see an Apple TV device (with full time ARC support to HomePods/AirPods/AirPlay) as my default big-screen audio-video-sound channel. I would then likely fire up the old AVR and 5.1 speakers only when I’m doing truly focused TV/couch time (the newer UHD/4K TVs can still feed an old receiver’s surround system via TOSC while the HDMI-1/ARC port gets connected to a future Apple TV device). OTOH, if multi-HomePod sound quality hits its immersive potential, I’ll happily get rid of those old bulky stereo/home theater components and speakers.
I love the homepods for music, I think they sound wonderful. Sync issues as home theatre speakers means I will probably get rid of them or at least replace with a sound bar and move these somewhere else in the house. It might well be that this is an issue with all wireless speakers though.
Is this not much use?
Use Apple TV to play audio throughout your home
Apple TV can serve as a hub for playing audio throughout your home.
support.apple.com
I tried the wireless sync several times, I also did it across several different resolutions/refresh rates as it seems to imply you need to do it for each one. It improved things certainly but not perfect and inconsistent behaviour. More importantly my wife hated the fact she noticed lip sync problems and refused to watch TV. I sold the homepods and replaced with a Sonos Beam...and for me and my use it’s been flawless.